Logan Ryan possibly moving to safety?

[BradyManny]

The goal has to be to get the best defenders on the field at the same time. It's up to Belichick to sort out the details.

 

[Kontradiction]

Here's why I like this. It puts the best four DBs on the field and that's not a bad thing. Ryan is probably the best ball player of our 2013 DBs but where does he stack up in the slot CB depth chart in comparison to Dennard and Arrington? With Revis on the team and the responsibility of the deeper safety nearly halved, it makes much more sense to put our best ball playing DB back there to make plays on the ball.

That's definitely a secondary that can cover. It's not a secondary that can tackle on a consistent basis (outside of one or two guys), though. You roll out a secondary like that and you're begging to be run on. I don't like this idea. I'd rather have Browner back there with McCourty or draft a safety, with the latter being my personal preference.

 

[manxman2601]

That's definitely a secondary that can cover. It's not a secondary that can tackle on a consistent basis (outside of one or two guys), though. You roll out a secondary like that and you're begging to be run on. I don't like this idea. I'd rather have Browner back there with McCourty or draft a safety, with the latter being my personal preference.

Well don't forget Adrian Wilson, the possibility we've discussed on the draft forum of a linebacker like Shazier or Pierre-Louis taking on that role and also Deone Buccanon, who whilst not my favourite safety, has that size/athleticism combo that BB likes to draft. I had him in my latest mock.

There are still options for a 'hammer' type player, I'm just not convinced that BB, rightly, sees it as an every down priority. Coverage is much more important.

 

[signbabybrady]

Which side of the field does Revis usually line up on?

And might his switching safety spots be geared toward getting him on the other side? As the safety role on this team is similar between the two might this be more about where the personell lines up rather than a role.

 

[Ring 6]

That's definitely a secondary that can cover. It's not a secondary that can tackle on a consistent basis (outside of one or two guys), though. You roll out a secondary like that and you're begging to be run on. I don't like this idea. I'd rather have Browner back there with McCourty or draft a safety, with the latter being my personal preference.

Every player in that secondary is a good tackler.

 

[Kontradiction]

Well don't forget Adrian Wilson, the possibility we've discussed on the draft forum of a linebacker like Shazier or Pierre-Louis taking on that role and also Deone Buccanon, who whilst not my favourite safety, has that size/athleticism combo that BB likes to draft. I had him in my latest mock.

There are still options for a 'hammer' type player, I'm just not convinced that BB, rightly, sees it as an every down priority. Coverage is much more important.

It shouldn't (and doesn't have to) be an either/or scenario, though. Coverage and tackling ability are both important and you want to find the guy that can do both. If you put Ryan across from McCourty at safety, you have a defensive backfield that, as a whole, is probably the best coverage unit in the NFL. But you had better pray to God or whomever you believe in that they can stop the TE from catching passes and getting a head of steam and that the front seven can stop the run, because that's probably the least physical (outside of Browner who sounds like he'll be lining up at CB anyway) defensive backfield in the NFL. As you know, I've been loving the idea of drafting two SS prospects this year, though. And you know I'm high on KPL as a hybrid, so I don't think our disagreement is a huge one. I just want a guy that can both cover and tackle. As for coverage being much more important, it's going to be easier to hide a coverage deficiency at SS with the CB's we have plus McCourty. It will be much harder to hide the lack of tackling ability.

 

[Rob0729]

On passing downs, I like the idea of Ryan at safety. On running downs, not so much. Both Ryan and McCourty are similar players and neither are in-the-box type of safeties.

McCourty was a great tackler and run support guy as a CB. He is very good at it as a FS. He would be below average as an in-the-box SS type of player. I think he is an asset in coverage as a safety. I think his strong points would be minimized in the box.

Contrary to McCourty haters beliefs, Belichick loves McCourty. He has also been looking for Rodney 2.0 ever since he retired. I think this move may be Belichick trying to make McCourty that Rodney 2.0 (and obviously putting his best players on the field at the same time). I don't know if McCourty is built to be a Rodney Harrison type of safety.

 

[Big-T]

Which side of the field does Revis usually line up on?

He doesn't have a side, he follows a specific assignment.

And might his switching safety spots be geared toward getting him on the other side? As the safety role on this team is similar between the two might this be more about where the personell lines up rather than a role.

Or did you mean Ryan? With the switching to Safety comment...I think he had a specific assignment too because Talib followed the #1 around the field.

 

[pats4life12]

If that's what he wants to do and he puts all his effort into it he can do it, or he will fail and be horrible at safety.

 

[Brady6]

Over the past few years the Patriots have moved away from the strong safety, free safety scheme so essentially it would be Logan Ryan at right safety and McCourty at lefts safety (or vice versa). I see them going with more of a hybrid defensive backfield.

CB – Revis in 1on1 coverage against the opponents #1 WR
CB/LB – Browner in 1on1 coverage against the opponents #1 TE
CB – Dennard in 1on1 coverage against the opponents #2 WR
CB/FS – Ryan in 1on1 coverage against the opponents slot WR
FS/SS – McCourty playing centerfield

They can disguise coverage as well, put Browner in the slot, let him jam the WR then he drops into safety coverage and Ryan takes that receiver 1on1. Essentially if the Patriots put Revis, Browner, Dennard, Ryan, and McCourty on the field they have five cornerbacks and three of them (McCourty, Browner, and Ryan) would all be capable of playing safety as well. That will allow them to do a lot of different things, and matchup specifically to certain teams etc.

 

[mayoclinic]

A lot of comment here overlooking the fact that bb plays left and right safeties not strong and free safeties.

That's way too simplistic a distinction.

Every team plays a combination of coverage schemes, but ultimately it comes down to whether you play 1 deep safety or 2 deep. It only makes sense to talk about "left and right safeties" as mirror images of each other if you are playing 2 deep safeties most of the time - Cover 2, Cover 4, and Cover 6. Those are primarily zone coverage schemes. But the Pats have been moving more and more towards a single high free safety with press-man coverage. They obviously won't play any scheme exclusively, and will have a mixture of coverages, but the acquisition of Browner and Revis suggests that they have gone "all in" on playing press-man coverage with primarily a single high FS. As former NFL DB Matt Bowen recently noted:

Cover 1 (or any single-high-safety defense) should be at the top of the call sheet every week for the Patriots defense after picking up Revis and Browner via free agency, but there is always room to get creative and use game plan-specific schemes when you have corners who can win in man coverage.

Patriots' Secondary Additions Prove Bill Belichick's Ability to Adapt | Bleacher Report

The Pats certainly didn't use Gregory as a mirror image of McCourty last year. There were times he played a deep coverage role opposite McCourty, but he was also used an more of a SS role and as a "robber" or "rat" role (covering the underneath zone).

I've assumed that the Pats would be running a fair amount of Cover 3 this season, which allows you to put 8 men in the box, and where the SS is really playing a role opposite the WILL:

Stopping the run with a Cover-3 base defense - Big Cat Country

The Pats' interest in guys like Wes Woodyard in FA and Kevin Pierre-Louis would fit with this kind of a role. Devin McCourty as the SS really doesn't fit this role.

My best guess is that we will see Ryan play some safety opposite McCourty when the Pats want to play Cover 2/4/6 coverages, which will probably be about 25-33% of the time. Otherwise, I think we'll see McCourty as the single high FS with more of a traditional SS or a LB/S hybrid playing in the box, or with 1 safety and 3-5 CBs.

It will be very interesting to see how the Pats use all their weapons in the secondary, but I don't think they are finished, and I don't think it will be uniform. Like Bowen, I see single high FS (Cover 1 and its variants) being the base, but a lot of traps and "game plan-specific schemes" mixed in. At any rate, I think simply saying that BB plays "left and right safeties" is a gross oversimplification, and not very helpful.

 

[manxman2601]

It shouldn't (and doesn't have to) be an either/or scenario, though. Coverage and tackling ability are both important and you want to find the guy that can do both. If you put Ryan across from McCourty at safety, you have a defensive backfield that, as a whole, is probably the best coverage unit in the NFL. But you had better pray to God or whomever you believe in that they can stop the TE from catching passes and getting a head of steam and that the front seven can stop the run, because that's probably the least physical (outside of Browner who sounds like he'll be lining up at CB anyway) defensive backfield in the NFL. As you know, I've been loving the idea of drafting two SS prospects this year, though. And you know I'm high on KPL as a hybrid, so I don't think our disagreement is a huge one. I just want a guy that can both cover and tackle. As for coverage being much more important, it's going to be easier to hide a coverage deficiency at SS with the CB's we have plus McCourty. It will be much harder to hide the lack of tackling ability.

I think every team wants a player that can cover and tackle, it's just not that easy to find. Take the draft. Bucannon is a great hitter but takes poor angles and isn't great in coverage, and I know we disagree on this, but I think much the same of Calvin Pryor who has limited range in coverage and is another that whiffs on too many tackles because of poor angles and instincts.

Give me Jimmie Ward over those two every day...although I'd happily trade our first rounder for Mark Barron who is the best I've seen at taking great angles in the run game.

 

[Kontradiction]

On passing downs, I like the idea of Ryan at safety. On running downs, not so much. Both Ryan and McCourty are similar players and neither are in-the-box type of safeties.

McCourty was a great tackler and run support guy as a CB. He is very good at it as a FS. He would be below average as an in-the-box SS type of player. I think he is an asset in coverage as a safety. I think his strong points would be minimized in the box.

Contrary to McCourty haters beliefs, Belichick loves McCourty. He has also been looking for Rodney 2.0 ever since he retired. I think this move may be Belichick trying to make McCourty that Rodney 2.0 (and obviously putting his best players on the field at the same time). I don't know if McCourty is built to be a Rodney Harrison type of safety.

He's not. Putting Ryan in the "free" role and moving McCourty into the box is a bad idea, for the reasons both you and I have stated. Check out Kevin Pierre-Louis out of BC (props to manx, who originally floated the idea of him as a hybrid safety/LB). Excellent movement, fluidity, and size. Dude's big (6'1" 230+) and can play in space on top of moving down into the box to either cover LB's or take on the run. A guy like him or a more physical safety like Bucannon who can also cover would compliment the secondary we have much, MUCH better than moving McCourty down into the box and Ryan back. Keep McCourty and his range back there, put a more physical SS type next to him, Revis at CB1, Browner at CB2, Dennard at nickel, and Arrington and Ryan at dime. That would be New England's best, deepest, and most diverse defensive backfield since 2003-2004.

 

[Kontradiction]

I think every team wants a player that can cover and tackle, it's just not that easy to find. Take the draft. Bucannon is a great hitter but takes poor angles and isn't great in coverage, and I know we disagree on this, but I think much the same of Calvin Pryor who has limited range in coverage and is another that whiffs on too many tackles because of poor angles and instincts.

Give me Jimmie Ward over those two every day...although I'd happily trade our first rounder for Mark Barron who is the best I've seen at taking great angles in the run game.

My biggest issue with Ward is that I'd like to see him ideally put on ten or more pounds in muscle weight. That being said, I'm unsure as to how that would effect his ability to fly around the field (which is one of his strengths, but something that, at his size right now, could lead to injury at the NFL level).

 

[Stylez]

They would be better off moving Arrington to safety

They would be better off without Arrington.

 

[Sciz]

I think there are two ways of looking at the FS position with Revis at CB. You can either use McCourty there knowing that he has elite range and should excel with less ground to cover, or use Ryan there expecting him to be at least serviceable in 1/2 to 2/3 of the field, allowing you to use McCourty elsewhere. I personally would go with McCourty as the deep safety, but Ryan at FS with McCourty at SS would be a very Belichickian weakness-minimizing strategy.

 

[manxman2601]

They would be better off without Arrington.

They would be better keeping Arrington as part of a depth in the secondary that includes Arrington, Dennard, Harmon and potentially Adrian Wilson. Add another quality draftee, either a safety or CB, into that mix and we have one of the deepest and best secondaries in the league.

 

[manxman2601]

My biggest issue with Ward is that I'd like to see him ideally put on ten or more pounds in muscle weight. That being said, I'm unsure as to how that would effect his ability to fly around the field (which is one of his strengths, but something that, at his size right now, could lead to injury at the NFL level).

I agree that he can be bigger - it's the only thing stopping him being a lock as the best safety in the draft. But as I've said in the draft forum, for me, instincts are the most important thing I look for in a safety. It's why I picked up on Ward when he was being talked of as a seventh rounder type and it is why I am still so high on Barron.

 

[Stylez]

They would be better keeping Arrington as part of a depth in the secondary that includes Arrington, Dennard, Harmon and potentially Adrian Wilson. Add another quality draftee, either a safety or CB, into that mix and we have one of the deepest and best secondaries in the league.

Not really. But he's got a contract so they have to. Sorry bro, but the guy flat out sucks.

 

[Rob0729]

He's not. Putting Ryan in the "free" role and moving McCourty into the box is a bad idea, for the reasons both you and I have stated. Check out Kevin Pierre-Louis out of BC (props to manx, who originally floated the idea of him as a hybrid safety/LB). Excellent movement, fluidity, and size. Dude's big (6'1" 230+) and can play in space on top of moving down into the box to either cover LB's or take on the run. A guy like him or a more physical safety like Bucannon who can also cover would compliment the secondary we have much, MUCH better than moving McCourty down into the box and Ryan back. Keep McCourty and his range back there, put a more physical SS type next to him, Revis at CB1, Browner at CB2, Dennard at nickel, and Arrington and Ryan at dime. That would be New England's best, deepest, and most diverse defensive backfield since 2003-2004.

I tend to doubt that he won't move McCourty in the box, but I am only quoting as reported by Guergian in the Herald and she says that they are moving McCourty in the box.