2014 Draft Prospect Thread

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Just put together the first edition of my big board for those of you interested.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9aFnuAmn2VBOXdNbTg3cndtZ28/edit?usp=sharing

Bear in mind that:

A) It's subject to change. Still plenty to watch.

B) It's not just based on talent but on need and fit too.

C) Prospects could have been left off for a number of reasons: won't fall to us, bad fit, I don't like them etc


I'd appreciate any thoughts.

Not much of a list if Allen Robinson isn't on it.

 

[manxman2601]

Not much of a list if Allen Robinson isn't on it.

I appreciate the constructive criticism.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

I appreciate the constructive criticism.

Am I wrong?

 

[manxman2601]

Am I wrong?

Nevermind.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Why nevermind?

 

[manxman2601]

Why nevermind?

Because I put a reasonable amount of work into that and I'm only interested in constructive criticism.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Because I put a reasonable amount of work into that and I'm only interested in constructive criticism.

It could have been constructive if you had forgot him. Which would be more understandable than omitting him.

I honestly can't comprehend how he wouldn't be on everyone's top 100.

 

[manxman2601]

It could have been constructive if you had forgot him. Which would be more understandable than omitting him.

I honestly can't comprehend how he wouldn't be on everyone's top 100.

Because, unless they're very special in other areas, receivers that run 4.60 aren't really candidates for the top 100 as far as I'm concerned, especially when the class is as deep as it is this year. For example, I don't really see what Allen Robinson offers that Devin Street doesn't.

Now I understand and respect the fact that you might see this differently, but these are my choices.

 

[mayoclinic]

Am I wrong?

I don't know if "wrong" is the right word, but I think if you're putting together this kind of board you have to consider overall value, need and fit considerations. It's going to be a very subjective valuation, and I don't think that leaving anyone off is necessarily "wrong".

Personally, I wouldn't take a WR in the top 3 rounds, so I wouldn't take Robinson for at least a good 2 rounds after he would be available. From that point of view, I can see leaving him off this list. Khalil Mack and Jadeveon Clowney didn't make Manx's board, either. Obviously, if you have a different point of view, then you get a drastically different answer.

I don't know much about how teams actually construct their boards, but I personally find it very hard to put together this kind of linear ordered ranking, so I think a little leeway needs to be allowed. Obviously, you would include Robinson on your big board (and fairly high, I assume), but I don't think it's "wrong" to not have him.

 

[manxman2601]

I don't know if "wrong" is the right word, but I think if you're putting together this kind of board you have to consider overall value, need and fit considerations. It's going to be a very subjective valuation, and I don't think that leaving anyone off is necessarily "wrong".

Personally, I wouldn't take a WR in the top 3 rounds, so I wouldn't take Robinson for at least a good 2 rounds after he would be available. From that point of view, I can see leaving him off this list. Khalil Mack and Jadeveon Clowney didn't make Manx's board, either. Obviously, if you have a different point of view, then you get a drastically different answer.

I don't know much about how teams actually construct their boards, but I personally find it very hard to put together this kind of linear ordered ranking, so I think a little leeway needs to be allowed. Obviously, you would include Robinson on your big board (and fairly high, I assume), but I don't think it's "wrong" to not have him.

Mack and Clowney weren't included because there's a neglibile opportunity for us to draft them. It's at last remotely possible that Ebron, Donald or Barr fall within range of a trade up which was they were included.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Because, unless they're very special in other areas, receivers that run 4.60 aren't really candidates for the top 100 as far as I'm concerned, especially when the class is as deep as it is this year. For example, I don't really see what Allen Robinson offers that Devin Street doesn't.

Now I understand and respect the fact that you might see this differently, but these are my choices.

Fitzgerald and Rice 4th round value!

So he's not a good track athlete. That's a less than great way to evaluate a player. I think most people here need to step back and revaluate. I'm not sure what you guys are missing, he's nearly flawless. If I had bet on the Pats first round pick it would be Robinson. It may really hurt you guys when it happens.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Allen Robinson

 

[manxman2601]

Fitzgerald and Rice 4th round value!


How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Allen Robinson

Maybe you should go back and read what I wrote word for word. Let's just say that I was expecting that very comeback. ( Tip: focus on words 2-7).

Look it's like this. I don't think Robinson is an impactful enough receiver to warrant a first or second round pick and that's why I left him off. I left Davante Adams and Jordan Matthews off too. I think, for differing reasons, that Beckham, Cooks and Moncrief are worthy of selection in the first two rounds (and Mike Evans and Watkins) which is why they were included. I'm happy for you to like him and I'm sure you'll feature him on your big board should you do one and I'm also sure that you will leave off some of my favourite prospects. And when you do, I promise not to laugh at your opinion or call your list a bad one.

 

[kennyb]

What do you think of Jordan matthews for the pats in the 2nd round. Not sure he makes it that far.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Maybe you should go back and read what I wrote word for word. Let's just say that I was expecting that very comeback. ( Tip: focus on words 2-7).

Sorry I was still floored he wasn't a top 100 guy in anyone's opinion, never mind yours.

Fix: Boldin and Keenan Allen 4th round value

 

[Wilfork#75]

Because, unless they're very special in other areas, receivers that run 4.60 aren't really candidates for the top 100 as far as I'm concerned, especially when the class is as deep as it is this year. For example, I don't really see what Allen Robinson offers that Devin Street doesn't.

Now I understand and respect the fact that you might see this differently, but these are my choices.

I think one thing to remember is the official combine 40 time is pretty much irrelevant when it comes to teams evaluations. All the teams go off their own hand times which are much closer to the unofficial times they show on the combine coverage. Robinson's 2nd 40 time was mid 4.5's so I don't think its unreasonable that some, if not most have him in the low to mid 4.5's. If his official time was 4.55 would that change your evaluation on him much?

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Because, unless they're very special in other areas, receivers that run 4.60 aren't really candidates for the top 100 as far as I'm concerned, especially when the class is as deep as it is this year. For example, I don't really see what Allen Robinson offers that Devin Street doesn't.

Now I understand and respect the fact that you might see this differently, but these are my choices.

Manx you have Jarvis "4.77" Landry in the sixties. I don't get it.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

I don't know if "wrong" is the right word, but I think if you're putting together this kind of board you have to consider overall value, need and fit considerations. It's going to be a very subjective valuation, and I don't think that leaving anyone off is necessarily "wrong".

Personally, I wouldn't take a WR in the top 3 rounds, so I wouldn't take Robinson for at least a good 2 rounds after he would be available. From that point of view, I can see leaving him off this list. Khalil Mack and Jadeveon Clowney didn't make Manx's board, either. Obviously, if you have a different point of view, then you get a drastically different answer.

I don't know much about how teams actually construct their boards, but I personally find it very hard to put together this kind of linear ordered ranking, so I think a little leeway needs to be allowed. Obviously, you would include Robinson on your big board (and fairly high, I assume), but I don't think it's "wrong" to not have him.

I know you feel that way (and normally I do too) but this is Manxman and he has several WRs listed. It includes gadget guys, little slot receivers, and pure athletes. That's why it floored me.

Maybe you should go back and read what I wrote word for word. Let's just say that I was expecting that very comeback. ( Tip: focus on words 2-7).

Look it's like this. I don't think Robinson is an impactful enough receiver to warrant a first or second round pick and that's why I left him off. I left Davante Adams and Jordan Matthews off too. I think, for differing reasons, that Beckham, Cooks and Moncrief are worthy of selection in the first two rounds (and Mike Evans and Watkins) which is why they were included. I'm happy for you to like him and I'm sure you'll feature him on your big board should you do one and I'm also sure that you will leave off some of my favourite prospects. And when you do, I promise not to laugh at your opinion or call your list a bad one.

I'm laughing that there's some cutoff at an official 4.60

I think one thing to remember is the official combine 40 time is pretty much irrelevant when it comes to teams evaluations. All the teams go off their own hand times which are much closer to the unofficial times they show on the combine coverage. Robinson's 2nd 40 time was mid 4.5's so I don't think its unreasonable that some, if not most have him in the low to mid 4.5's. If his official time was 4.55 would that change your evaluation on him much?

Teams use hand times for drills so they can compare them historically and to pro-day times where there are no official times. On average hand timed 40s are a tenth quicker than official times.

Having said that, it's not why I disregard his 40 time. It was clear to me before I saw the time that he wasn't a track athlete. He didn't look good out of his stance, and then got upright too soon. On film he's plenty fast, and he did well in the rest of the drills. I'm perfectly ok with his athleticism and upside.

 

[manxman2601]

Manx you have Jarvis "4.77" Landry in the sixties. I don't get it.

Because I think Landry is "special in other areas".

And I have Landry as a fourth round value and I can see him falling that far. OTOH, there's no point adding Robinson to my big board in the fourth round because, in reality, he's unlikely to fall that far.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Because I think Landry is "special in other areas".

And I have Landry as a fourth round value and I can see him falling that far. OTOH, there's no point adding Robinson to my big board in the fourth round because, in reality, he's unlikely to fall that far.

I like him too but we must have very different definitions of special.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Haven't seen him mentioned here, but Marcus Williams of North Dakota State is a guy I'd like to see targeted in the late rounds. 3-time FCS All American, 3-time FCS National Champion. Billy Turner is the bigger name but Williams was probably the best player on the team. I live in Minnesota and the Bison juggernaut was largely built off of players Tim Brewster refused to recruit in his tenure at Minnesota, which was not a successful one. Brewster preferred to rely on his Texas connections and ignore all of the in state talent. Williams is a playmaker who is also a solid punt returner with decent size and is a good tackler as well. He's a good prospect and should be a good option in the later rounds.