Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amendola?

[SalemPats]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

My belief is that the team attempted to give Edelman the opportunity to show that he could replace Welker during 2012, the combination of injures and him and Welker’s presence on the field and in the offense made it very difficult to assess the Edelman, so the staff was unsure. Welker left and Edelman was a free agent on crutches who they did not know if he would return, how much he would cost and if he was capable of being the player they needed, so in 2013 Amendola was more of a sure bet.

The problem was that rumors had Amendola going to the Patriots as far back as 2012 when McDaniels first signed here via trade, so teams knew that the Patriots were going to attempt to sign him and I am sure they got involved to only to drive up the asking price. This forced our hand with Welker gone a major hole we had to pay what the market was dictating for Amendola.

A perfect storm occurred, we signed Amendola for $5.7M APY suffered an injury, which opened the door for Edelman stepped in and he seized the opportunity, which took a $765K player to a rumored $6M player. The problem is what could we have done differently, roll the dice, and hope that Edelman stepped up, but remember we signed Amendola in the first two days of UFA and at that time, I would have to believe that Edelman was trying to get a better offer than we made.

In my opinion the mistake the Patriots made was far before signing Amendola, it was letting it ever get to the point where on day two of UFA they had their hand forced because they had a gaping hole in their offense. The team should have either signed Welker long-term or made more of an effort to draft a replacement like TY Hilton (who could have been draft instead of Bequette) in 2012, so the team would be able to transition smoothly.

I agree with the post.

DA had every opportunity to be Welker's replacement, but what happened suprised us all. Mini-tron turned out to be the better player. I think that's hard for people to decipher. They wanted to love DA. This kind of reminds me of the Brady/Bledsoe situation. There were a lot of fans who were angry that Brady took over. They kept saying well if the defense played the way it did with Drew he would have been the guy. The truth is, Brady's the better player. The truth is mini-tron is better than DA

 

[RayClay]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

I agree with the post.

DA had every opportunity to be Welker's replacement

First quarter of the Buffalo game? You're comparing that to us witnessing Bledsoe's whole career.

 

[Love The Drake]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

I am torn on what I want the Patriots to do I want to see help with the pass rush I know that for sure.
So I say you go get a Michael Johnson and you make this a top priority theres not many other players as versatile and The difference maker Michael can be to this defense.
Him and Chander on the Ends and you bring in Arthur Jones on a Brother discount.
Where do you get the cap?
By restructuring or cutting Wilfork by restructuring Mankins.
Extending Mccourty, and I like the idea if you cant get Talib to agree below 7 million a season you go get Capt Munnerlyn at 3.5 to 4 million a year. And kick the tires on Nick Collins who has alot to prove a love for football and will come cheap but could be high rewards.
I liked the idea of Hakeem Nicks but Now that he's signed with the ROC I think its nearly impossible he signs a reasonable contract now. So my focus is on Macklin or Emanuel Sanders.
I think Sanders is very possible with or without Julian Edelman.
As far as tight end I think you go for Chandler or you scour a team like Tenesee and offer a 6th for a tight end like Thompson.
All I really care about is improving the pass rush I feel with more three and outs Brady can make plays with The same cast he had last year. Hoping for big jumps from Boyce and Dobson intrigued by TJ Moe.

 

[50-yard-line]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

I'm laughing at this post. If we pro-rate the opportunities that mini-tron had to DA then DA would be amazing. Maybe if we targeted Dobson like we did Moss he would put Moss like numbers.

You need to watch the film. Edelman is a better route runner and has better hands. He's more elusive in space.

Tom Brady, the league's best QB basically went through his progressions and decided that DA was his 3rd or 4th option (and this is without Gronk). This was evidenced by 0 catches against the Broncos who couldn't cover a parked car.

Yeah, umm, keep laughing...we're all laughing beside you.

See that middle number of the five in comparison? That number represents the number of TARGETS per SNAPS. So when Edelman was on the field, Brady targeted him 12.5% of the time. When Amendola was on the field, Brady targeted him 12.4% of the time.

Which means that if you put the two of them on the field for 1,000 snaps, Brady would throw to Edelman a whopping 1 more time (125) than he would throw to Amendola (124). Wow...what was your point again?

Just admit, you were wrong, you though DA was going to be awesome, so did I. Unfortunately he's not that good. Sorry

After reading your posts, the only thing that makes me want to re-evaluate my thinking on DA is that you AGREED with the DA pick initially.

 

[SalemPats]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

I look at some people here who loved the DA signing, the contract value was good, he was younger than Wes and had success with McDaniel's. I was excited, i was sad Wes was gone, but i thought DA could replace him. Throw in Aaron/Gronk/Vereen and and our young draft picks i thought DA would thrive.

Unfortunately, we pretty much lost all of the weapons and the young rooks needed more time to develop. DA was placed in a role where he needed to be the man. He couldn't do that, but mini-tron was able to do this. I have so much respect for him, playing the slot is a tough position, we were a bit spoiled by Wes. He stepped up and had a season that was incredible, including being amongst the top 5 in reception and yards in the 2nd half of the season. mini-tron proved that he is invaluable, in doing that he rendered DA as someone who was not needed.

 

[50-yard-line]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

NFL Trade Rumors: Danny Amendola to Baltimore Ravens?

That speculation is based on the Volin article, where he claimed that Amendola had lost Brady's trust. When pressed, Volin admitted he was basing that on the last game of the year - in other words, he had nothing. it was really a shoddy piece of non-journalism, particularly considering the results of *duh* the previous week.

This is a silly-season article. I'm surprised Erica Leigh didn't write it.

That said, a trade would make sense IF the Pats knew they could lock up Edelman on the deal they want, and could get some value for Amendola.

Don't see it happening. Wouldn't mind it if the value was good.

 

[Danger Zone]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

The Ravens: Soo.. Ray Rice?

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

NFL Trade Rumors: Danny Amendola to Baltimore Ravens?

Wow, an unsubstantiated rumor based off unsubstantiated speculation. You guys are really reaching.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Look, the Patriots gave Edelman his chance and he only produced:

2012 New England Patriots 9 21 235 11.2 26.1



He clearly isn't a good player even though we wanted him to be...........






Oh, wait a second........................

 

[Huckleberry1]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Just watch, when Amendola puts up 100+ next year the same people who have been trashing him are going to act like they supported him all along, when nothing could be further from the truth.



"i really liked him , I really did, i was just sayin..............."

 

[PatsFan2]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

I agree with the post.

DA had every opportunity to be Welker's replacement, but what happened suprised us all. Mini-tron turned out to be the better player. I think that's hard for people to decipher. They wanted to love DA. This kind of reminds me of the Brady/Bledsoe situation. There were a lot of fans who were angry that Brady took over. They kept saying well if the defense played the way it did with Drew he would have been the guy. The truth is, Brady's the better player. The truth is mini-tron is better than DA

Some would tar and feather you for saying that but its the truth.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Some would tar and feather you for saying that but its the truth.

lmao, that will bring him some credibility. the guy who claims Larry Fitzgerald "sucks" is on his side.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Sorry you missed the Indy game...

Highlight: Danny Amendola 53-yard reception

Amendola averaged 25.7 per (3/77) catch in that game.
Edelman also contributed mightily in that game as the underneath guy moving the chains (6/84). Remember, Brady only completed 13 passes in the whole game.

I don't know what happened in the last game, honestly. The two Denver games were both awful for DA, which makes me believe that the game-planning was away from him...but I don't know.

Schemes matter, game-to-game. Decker got shut down in the SB, but he'll be the top FA WR this year by a wide margin.



Snap counts/yards/target %/receptions/rating

Edelman: 146 / 1,165 / 12.5% | 105 | 103.0
Amendola: 82 / 662 / 12.4% | 54 | 97.3
Dobson: 71 / 578 / 12.3% | 37 | 83.0
Thompkins: 69 / 627 / 11% | 32 | 88.2

Pro-rating Amendola snap counts:
146/82=1.78. 1.78x662=1178 yards
146/82=1.78. 1.78x54=96 receptions

I find it very reasonable to assume that if the injuries to DA had fallen to JE, with DA being healthy, their snap counts would have pretty much reversed - they're both tough-as-nails, even though they're both injury-prone. JE would have fought through the injuries DA got, as DA did.

It's just numbers.

A side note, and one that I'm sure would never be lost on a coach like BB: Amendola ALSO was the only NE receiver to post a positive BLOCKING rating with a +1.1 (Edelman was the worst on the team at -3.2). These are the invisible stats to fans, but not to coaches.

This hints to me (though I haven't the time or energy to check) that it's likely Amendola gets more snaps (%-wise) on running plays than does JE. Would make sense anyway.

Here: note 10 and 11 in the league...Advanced NFL Stats - Player Statistics by Position WPA, by the way, is Win Probability Added...this is Billy Ball for the NFL.

And yeah, he missed 24 games, including 15 in one season when he returned too quickly from an injury. Other than that year, Amendola has actually played more games than JE.

I see both of these guys as #2 WR and would be happy to have either (and happier to have both) on my team if I was an OC.

Of course, I've posted all this before, and so you'll just ignore it again (and make up some other fantasy of me loving Lavalle Hawkins or something). So I'll agree to disagree with your assessment.

Oh, and PS: If a player dresses for a game I expect him to perform, otherwise I expect that he is inactive and we put a player on the field that can perform. I do not believe that if Amendola were as limited as you and others claim Belichick would have played him, he would have signed a UFA or promoted a PS player who was capable of filling the void, just as he has always done.

Two things: per snap played, Amendola was AS EFFECTIVE as JE. So per snap played, he performed, unless you want to say that JE didn't perform.

Second: Kyle Arrington says hi.

The last eight games played looks like this –

Amendola – 381 snaps played, 28 receptions, 369 yards, a 7.2% catch to snap ratio, and .96 yards per snaps played.
Edelman – 559 snaps played, 69 receptions, 729 yards, a 12.4% catch to snap ratio, and 1.31 yards per snap played.

Roll the Miami game out of that mix and things look even worse as it leaves Amendola with 315 snaps played resulting in 18 catches for 238 yards.

Consistency is the issue with Amendola, 24 receptions and 357 yards occurred during the 170 snaps he played against the Bills, Steelers, and Dolphins; the other 490 snaps he played this season resulted in 33 receptions for 353 yards. For what it worth there is nothing wrong with this, it is good to have players that will go off in a few games a season and lead the victory charge, but the slot receiver has always been a position the Patriots have received consistent play from week in and week out, I am not sure Amendola can do that.

Welker had less than 5 receptions in a game 4 times throughout the 2011 and 2012 regular and postseasons which was 36 total games. Amendola played in 14 games this season and had less than 5 receptions in 10 of the games, to expand on that even further Welker played 105 games in his time here and had 17 games with less than 5 receptions during that period. Welker had less than 5 receptions in 16% of his games, Amendola had less than 5 receptions in 71% of his games, and this season Edelman had less than 5 receptions in 22% of his games. If you cannot see that a consistent performer is needed in the slot role, I do not think you are seeing things clearly.

 

[PatsFan2]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

lmao, that will bring him some credibility. the guy who claims Larry Fitzgerald "sucks" is on his side.

Stop talking out of your @ss dude have you seen Fitzgerald's stats the last two years is that what 18Mill gets you these days?? Fitzgerald is sporting an Elite QB cap number and questionable stats. If you don't think Fitzgerald's recent numbers are the norm I must be blind . Larry Fitzgerald is not a Elite WR in this league anymore for your information.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

lmao, that will bring him some credibility. the guy who claims Larry Fitzgerald "sucks" is on his side.

Seriously. If some of these people were any dumber we'd have to water them twice a week.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Seriously. I typically don't put people on ignore but the level of derp on this forum is reaching almost insufferable levels.

Yep, it is out of control.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Wow, an unsubstantiated rumor based off unsubstantiated speculation. You guys are really reaching.

You act as if I opened a thread for it; I posted a link to an article that rumored a trade in a thread that was discussing the Edelman and Amendola situation. #Reaching

I really hope your new season of 24 is better than this post…

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Stop talking out of your @ss dude have you seen Fitzgerald's stats the last two years is that what 18Mill gets you these days?? Fitzgerald is sporting an Elite QB cap number and questionable stats. If you don't think Fitzgerald's recent numbers are the norm I must be blind . Larry Fitzgerald is not a Elite WR in this league anymore for your information.

Did it ever occur to you that "sucks" and "not elite" are not synonyms?

 

[50-yard-line]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Yep, it is out of control.

I blame Madden.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

I look at some people here who loved the DA signing, the contract value was good, he was younger than Wes and had success with McDaniel's. I was excited, i was sad Wes was gone, but i thought DA could replace him. Throw in Aaron/Gronk/Vereen and and our young draft picks i thought DA would thrive.

Unfortunately, we pretty much lost all of the weapons and the young rooks needed more time to develop. DA was placed in a role where he needed to be the man. He couldn't do that, but mini-tron was able to do this. I have so much respect for him, playing the slot is a tough position, we were a bit spoiled by Wes. He stepped up and had a season that was incredible, including being amongst the top 5 in reception and yards in the 2nd half of the season. mini-tron proved that he is invaluable, in doing that he rendered DA as someone who was not needed.

So you're evaluating a season in which Amendola was never injured too.