Hmm... let Talib walk and cut Wilfork?

[All22PatsFan]

Wilfork, unfortunately, doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that would re-sign with the team on a lesser deal if he's cut outright. I would be fine with Whitner at safety, but Byrd should be the cream of the crop as far as safeties go and more than likely will price himself out of the Pats range.

I don't see the need to replace Gregory, Byrd plays the same role as Dmac. Whither and Ward will be pricey. The secondary was great last year no need to change it. I would rather the patriots spend on the Dline.

 

[Kontradiction]

I don't see the need to replace Gregory, Byrd plays the same role as Dmac. Whither and Ward will be pricey. The secondary was great last year no need to change it. I would rather the patriots spend on the Dline.

As I mentioned, Lindval Joseph is a viable option in FA. Others have brought up Cody as an option as well. If they're looking to continue one gapping more, guys like Jernigan fit the bill in the draft and Easley later on if his injury looks like it's not going to ruin his career. Gregory needs to be upgraded. He's a back up safety at best and his play was covered up a lot this year by the play of the corners. He also doesn't compliment what McCourty does particularly well. Wilson and Harrison worked well together back in 2003 because they complimented one another well. Wilson had very good range and Harrison was an enforcer type. If you want a more recent example, Chancellor and Earl Thomas compliment one another well for the same reasons. The Pats badly need a hitter who can play in the box against the run as well and isn't a total liability in coverage. Rodney saw it and so have many of us for the last few years. There are options available in FA and in the draft.

 

[PatsChamp88]

I don't see the need to replace Gregory, Byrd plays the same role as Dmac. Whither and Ward will be pricey. The secondary was great last year no need to change it. I would rather the patriots spend on the Dline.

Tend to agree here the ability to generate pressure with only four is so important and immensely helps the secondary not to mention how bad we were against the run.

3rd most rushing yards allowed (2145)
7th highest rush yard average (4.5)

2013 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[RayClay]

Wilfork doesn't pressure the QB, he never has done that, he is a run stopper, Siliga did manhandle Vasquez in the run game. proof? Sealver Siliga vs the run - YouTube

You're kidding. What do you think it means to take on double and triple teams? What do you think collapsing the pocket means? Pressure up the middle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbOuqvqv0uI

Siliga did a fine job for a journeyman.

 

[PatsChamp88]

As I mentioned, Lindval Joseph is a viable option in FA. Others have brought up Cody as an option as well. If they're looking to continue one gapping more, guys like Jernigan fit the bill in the draft and Easley later on if his injury looks like it's not going to ruin his career. Gregory needs to be upgraded. He's a back up safety at best and his play was covered up a lot this year by the play of the corners. He also doesn't compliment what McCourty does particularly well. Wilson and Harrison worked well together back in 2003 because they complimented one another well. Wilson had very good range and Harrison was an enforcer type. If you want a more recent example, Chancellor and Earl Thomas compliment one another well for the same reasons. The Pats badly need a hitter who can play in the box against the run as well and isn't a total liability in coverage. Rodney saw it and so have many of us for the last few years. There are options available in FA and in the draft.

Provided Talib comes back I think we'll have to hope a safety is drafted.

 

[All22PatsFan]

You're kidding. What do you think it means to take on double and triple teams? What do you think collapsing the pocket means? Pressure up the middle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbOuqvqv0uI

Siliga did a fine job for a journeyman.

Wilfork does nothing in the passing game, watch his film from last year and the beginning of this year, taking on double teams refers to the running game, not the passing game. Wilfork doesn't pressure or collapse the pocket as you seem to think. Siliga was a beast against the run I've watched all his film, BB watchs film with him, I would be shocked if he isn't a starter next year. When you give the best Guard in the NFL trouble you should start.

 

[SalemPats]

I love how we think we can just cut Wilfork and Talib and easily replace them. Free Agents are players who are overvalued or guys that teams didn't want to keep. Drafts are great, but we'll be lucky to find guys as good as Wilfork and Talib.

 

[All22PatsFan]

As I mentioned, Lindval Joseph is a viable option in FA. Others have brought up Cody as an option as well. If they're looking to continue one gapping more, guys like Jernigan fit the bill in the draft and Easley later on if his injury looks like it's not going to ruin his career. Gregory needs to be upgraded. He's a back up safety at best and his play was covered up a lot this year by the play of the corners. He also doesn't compliment what McCourty does particularly well. Wilson and Harrison worked well together back in 2003 because they complimented one another well. Wilson had very good range and Harrison was an enforcer type. If you want a more recent example, Chancellor and Earl Thomas compliment one another well for the same reasons. The Pats badly need a hitter who can play in the box against the run as well and isn't a total liability in coverage. Rodney saw it and so have many of us for the last few years. There are options available in FA and in the draft.

I think he compliments Dmac really well playing in the robber role with McCourty as the single high safety. Gregory plays the run well and isn't asked to do much in the passing game. Tavon Wilson any Harmon are hard hitters.
As for the Dline, I think they should sign a third DE to alternate with Jones, Ninko a guy like Michael Johnson, Houston, Tuck ect and draft a DT like Aaron Donald, that would greatly improve the pass rush.

 

[Kontradiction]

I love how we think we can just cut Wilfork and Talib and easily replace them. Free Agents are players who are overvalued or guys that teams didn't want to keep. Drafts are great, but we'll be lucky to find guys as good as Wilfork and Talib.

Wilfork is north of 30, well over 300 pounds, and is recovering from a torn Achilles. The chances that he's going to come back anywhere close to the same are very slim, unfortunately. But if the team continues to one gap as much as they did last season, he may not be as difficult to replace as you think. Talib would be more difficult, whether his replacement is a rookie or a veteran like Grimes or Shields. But both of them have injury issues right now. Wilfork is coming off of a horrific one for a man of his size and age and Talib has chronic hip problems. Both do and should command decent amounts of money against the cap.

 

[SalemPats]

corners, NTs are the two toughest positions to replace. Talib (has a bad hip), but provides us with a phsyical 'shutdown' corner. Just look at what BB did with the defense with him in the lineup and out of the lineup. Since '01 we've had two good corners in Law and Samuel.

er

 

[RayClay]

I've actually read in this forum this year that Brady, Wilfork, Gronk and Talib could and should be replaced, by backups or average starters.

Is there anyone else? That's a pretty impressive list.

 

[SalemPats]

I've actually read in this forum this year that Brady, Wilfork, Gronk and Talib could and should be replaced, by backups or average starters.

Is there anyone else? That's a pretty impressive list.

You forgot about Mankins and Edelman.

People don't remember the non-BB and Parcells years

 

[Kontradiction]

I think he compliments Dmac really well playing in the robber role with McCourty as the single high safety.

Except the Pats show more two deep safety looks than single high safety looks. In that regard, Gregory doesn't compliment McCourty well at all.

Gregory plays the run well and isn't asked to do much in the passing game.

Not sure what you were watching here. Gregory wasn't a total liability against the run, but I wouldn't say that he "plays the run well" either. And he was asked to do quite a bit more in the passing game than what you're letting on.

Tavon Wilson any Harmon are hard hitters.

Neither of them, to date, have shown anything to make me believe that they deserve more snaps with the defense. Wilson has made repeated mental errors and has spent a good part of his career in the dog house, but has found a niche on ST and Harmon actually got demoted in favor of Wilson in the playoffs.

As for the Dline, I think they should sign a third DE to alternate with Jones, Ninko a guy like Michael Johnson, Houston, Tuck ect and draft a DT like Aaron Donald, that would greatly improve the pass rush.

I can dig that.

 

[Tunescribe]

a very detailed opinion piece, Kontra...made me think about it. This could very easily happen depending on other circumstances like the offers Talib will get outside Foxboro.Wilfork is a total ? to me at this early stage.

Agreed. But I would lean toward keeping Talib because I sense he's inclined to work with the Pats toward a mutually agreeable contract. The problem with letting Talib walk is you're right back in the hunt for another top FA corner and there's no telling how that might pan out.

The situation with Vince depends entirely on (1) health and (2) willingness to restructure. No way of knowing now about either. But if he's willing to restructure a very team-friendly deal even if he doesn't come back 100-percent, I say do it and see what he has to offer on the field.

 

[Kontradiction]

I've actually read in this forum this year that Brady, Wilfork, Gronk and Talib could and should be replaced, by backups or average starters.

Is there anyone else? That's a pretty impressive list.

Brady and Gronk don't need to be replaced. The team needs a viable TE2 regardless of Gronk's health and Brady needs more weapons in the receiving corps as a whole. Wilfork, unless you're completely confident that such a large man on the wrong side of 30 can overcome one of the worst injuries not only for his position but in the NFL, could become a very viable cap casualty. Talib may command more than the team is willing to pay for someone with his injury history and chronic hip problems. This is all very realistic.

As for the "back-ups or average starters" part, please list, in detail, which of the upcoming draft prospects I listed will fall into that catagory. Start with any prospect you wish and work your way down the list explaining to me what about their play makes you think they will be back-ups or average starters at best, as they are who you must have been talking about.

 

[All22PatsFan]

Except the Pats show more two deep safety looks than single high safety looks. In that regard, Gregory doesn't compliment McCourty well at all.



Not sure what you were watching here. Gregory wasn't a total liability against the run, but I wouldn't say that he "plays the run well" either. And he was asked to do quite a bit more in the passing game than what you're letting on.



Neither of them, to date, have shown anything to make me believe that they deserve more snaps with the defense. Wilson has made repeated mental errors and has spent a good part of his career in the dog house, but has found a niche on ST and Harmon actually got demoted in favor of Wilson in the playoffs.



I can dig that.

Patriots play a ton of Cover one, and they should have stuck with that when the played the Broncos, which Safteys do you suggest going after? Browns have 45M on cap (Corey Joel) So Ward isnt an option. That leaves Whitner who will likely be paid top money. Why upgrade the secondary when it was so good this year. The Pats don't have unlimited Cap space Dline, Oline, WR, TE IMO are all way more important then replacing Gregory.

 

[Kontradiction]

Agreed. But I would lean toward keeping Talib because I sense he's inclined to work with the Pats toward a mutually agreeable contract. The problem with letting Talib walk is you're right back in the hunt for another top FA corner and there's no telling how that might pan out.

Corner is actually relatively deep in the draft this year. If Talib walks, the team doesn't absolutely have to go the FA route. But, if they don't, Belichick can't screw up another CB selection in the draft then. He absolutely has to hit. If Talib accepts a lesser deal, I agree he should be brought back.

 

[RayClay]

You forgot about Mankins and Edelman.

People don't remember the non-BB and Parcells years

Well, Mankins yes, but Edelman doesn't quite fit the category.

Julian's in his "give him whatever he wants" phase, where he went right from marginal receiver and special teamer to "how many receptions til he catches Jerry Rice?"

 

[Tunescribe]

Talib needs an incentive clause in his contract emphasizing the off-season program and conditioning. He needs to work on his body; I think this recurring hip problem is preventable.

 

[Sciz]

Talib needs an incentive clause in his contract emphasizing the off-season program and conditioning. He needs to work on his body; I think this recurring hip problem is preventable.

Talib got one of the offseason award parking spots this season, so it seems participating in offseason workouts didn't help enough.