Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?

[Greatest I am]

Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?

I have been asked to do an O P showing my beliefs and have written a nutshell view to fill that request.

I was a skeptic till the age of 39. I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian. Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake and that makes me as hated by Christians today as the ancient Gnostics that Constantine had the Christians kill when he bought the Catholic Church.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of the O. T. God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheep where Gnostic Christians are goats.

This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness or what I call; the Godhead.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. It does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have exaggerated tribal mentalities and poor morals as they have developed a double standard to be able to stomach their God.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to ignore whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar of excellence and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Since then, I have tried to collect information that would help any that believe that apotheosis is possible, generally not Christians, --- as they do not believe in the mythical esoteric Jesus that I believe in and churches do not dare teach it.

This first clip gives the theological and philosophical interpretation of what Jesus taught and the second clip show what I think is a close representation of the method that helped me push my apotheosis.

Alan Watts - On The Book of Eli - YouTube

1A Hidden Meanings In Bible - YouTube

Basically, the usual Christian Jesus is their hero and savior while my version demand that man himself steps up to the plate and save himself.

Which version do you think is more moral and deserving of praise and why?

Regards
DL

 

[oldrover]

Your post does not describe the Jesus you know. I'd be interested in hearing you talk about that.

 

[Greatest I am]

Your post does not describe the Jesus you know. I'd be interested in hearing you talk about that.

I do discuss what I think of him through those two clips as well as the O P but did not go in depth. What specifically are you after?

Did you get that he is a myth and archetype that we are to internalize?

Regards
DL

 

[oldrover]

No. Jesus is not a myth. There is ample historical evidence of His life.

He claimed to be the son of God.

Therefore, he was either a nutjob, a charlatan, or He was who He said He was.

Which of these is your position, or do you deny His existence entirely?

 

[Greatest I am]

No. Jesus is not a myth. There is ample historical evidence of His life.

He claimed to be the son of God.

Therefore, he was either a nutjob, a charlatan, or He was who He said He was.

Which of these is your position, or do you deny His existence entirely?

There is 0 historical evidence for a real Jesus.

Was there a Jesus. Probably a Rabbi. No miracle working charlatan to amuse the masses.

Was there a Jesus messiah or savior?

No way in hell as that is an immoral practice.

If God can't have decent morals he is not worth spit.
Yours does not have decent morals.

Regards
DL

 

[oldrover]

Historical Jesus perspectives from a non Christian source;

Historical Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You cite no proof to make your claims of no Jesus; in fact, you say there wasn't one and then you say there was one.

I fear you are unbalanced.

I pray for you, sir.

 

[everlong]

OldRover the other thread was locked so I wanted to respond here. So you believe that as long as you believe in god you can be saved no matter what your religion is? That's quite different from most Christian teachings where it's belief in Jesus but somewhat more in line with my thinking.

In a very condensed version I believe we are put here to learn more about our true selves or our souls if you will. I believe it's twofold. One we are supposed to learn lessons to make us better souls who are more compassionate and put others first. Secondly I believe each person\soul has a potential and in each life, I do believe in reincarnation, we strive to reach that potential.

 

[oldrover]

I quoted Christ as saying, "If you have faith the size of a mustard seed, then nothing shall be impossible to you." And I pointed out that a mustard seed is freakin' TINY. So my analogy was... if a person is 99% sure that Jesus wasn't who He said He was... but that 1% thinks, "Gee, maybe He WAS..." perhaps that is a mustard seed's worth of faith. I don't know. Merely an educated guess.

Outright hostility to God, Christ or Holy Spirit... especially the latter two... UNREPENTED... that is your ticket to Nowheresville. St. Paul ferociously attacked the Christian church... but then was visited by Christ and converted (Acts). So he repented and changed his ways. Happy ending!!!

I would disagree with your overall approach to religion, though. When Christ was asked, "Which are the greatest commandments?" He said, 'To love your God with all your heart and soul and mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. All the commandments are based on these.' (paraphrasing here)

You know what He doesn't say? To find ourselves. To focus on ourselves. To learn about ourselves. Why? IMHO because you don't reveal the best in yourself when you do things for yourself. You reveal your highest nature when you, well, do unto others.

Sorry if I wasn't clear before. Clarity ain't always my strong suit. Sometimes I'm like "ready, talk, think..." LOL

 

[everlong]

I would disagree with your overall approach to religion, though. When Christ was asked, "Which are the greatest commandments?" He said, 'To love your God with all your heart and soul and mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. All the commandments are based on these.' (paraphrasing here)

You know what He doesn't say? To find ourselves. To focus on ourselves. To learn about ourselves. Why? IMHO because you don't reveal the best in yourself when you do things for yourself. You reveal your highest nature when you, well, do unto others.

Sorry if I wasn't clear before. Clarity ain't always my strong suit. Sometimes I'm like "ready, talk, think..." LOL

In my thinking god isn't a single entity. We are all part of god. The universe is all interconnected. So by learning more about ourselves and at the same times becoming more understanding to others we are in fact loving god more. God comes from within not in the external. So it's not in doing things for yourself per say. It's more about learning about your spirit so you become a better version of yourself and more connected to the universe\god.

Finding your souls purpose doesn't mean making a billion dollars and retiring at 40 and living a life of luxury. It's different for each person but it's finding their purpose. Finding what completes them.

 

[oldrover]

Is this philosophy of yours re: God one that you created on your own? Sort of your own feelings and ideas? Or does it spring from Hinduism? (you mentioned reincarnation)

Reincarnation never made sense to me. I mean, if we're always coming back as another person, then that means there's always dead people waiting around to come back, right? Like if I die today, I will come back as someone else, in your view. Say it was some guy who died in the 1950's. So has he been waiting around for me to die so that he could come back? Where was he waiting? Could he have already come back once or twice between now and then?

Also, when population is growing, there are more people alive than dead. So when a new person is born, who can he come back as? Everyone is taken. Do you have books that explain these kinds of things that you could refer me to?

 

[everlong]

It's a combination of several different cultures that came to common conclusions but yes your soul lives in Summerland or Nirvana awaiting the next life. Some souls are older than other souls and have already lived many lives. Some souls are newer and are doing one of their first journeys.

Soul Survivor: The Reincarnation of a World War II Fighter Pilot: Bruce Leininger, Andrea Leininger, Ken Gross: 9780446509343: Amazon.com: Books

If you have the chance read this book. I'm not expecting you'll believe in reincarnation but the couple whose son is involved were very dedicated Christians and had to balance what they were seeing with their beliefs. If nothing else a very good story.

 

[oldrover]

Thanks. It sounds interesting.

 

[Harry Boy]

God

God Is Real (prove it)
There Is No God (prove it)

 

[SalemPats]

This is a good question. The Jesus I know is the Mexican guy who drives the bus i go on every morning.