It Still Hasn't Sunk In

[mgteich]

The patriots easily won a playoff game against a team against a top team with Brady under 200 yards almost by design, with ZERO passes to a WR (all catches were by slot receivers, TE's and running backs). And, the patriots had six rushing touchdowns.

The difference maker in the game was the run blocking: by the OL, the TE's and by our FB.
Yes, Hooman and Develin were critical. Weren't we told at the beginning of the season that we didn't need a fullback, certainly not if we have a good blocking end.

Belichick made a decision at the beginning of the year. He would go without a #1 receiver.
Some argue that he didn't even have a player who could be a #2 receiver on other teams.
We all expected the passing game to develop as the season developed. Well, Belichick had a Plan B, and we saw it last weekend.
===================

For me, it would be great to re-sign the running game and our number one receiver (Blount, Wendell, Hooman and Edelman) and see how the 2nd year receivers develop. Our offense could be awesome with NO star downfield threat.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

BB is the master of knowing what a player can and can't do. Then putting him in the best possible position to use those skills to succeed. Sometimes, the player doesn't know what they are capable of or won't work to "get it".

Draft position or previous accolades hardly matter and even Brady has to "prove it". for some guys this is the best place to play, others will wash out.

 

[RayClay]

The patriots easily won a playoff game against a team against a top team with Brady under 200 yards almost by design, with ZERO passes to a WR (all catches were by slot receivers, TE's and running backs). And, the patriots had six rushing touchdowns.

The difference maker in the game was the run blocking: by the OL, the TE's and by our FB.
Yes, Hooman and Develin were critical. Weren't we told at the beginning of the season that we didn't need a fullback, certainly not if we have a good blocking end.

Belichick made a decision at the beginning of the year. He would go without a #1 receiver.
Some argue that he didn't even have a player who could be a #2 receiver on other teams.
We all expected the passing game to develop as the season developed. Well, Belichick had a Plan B, and we saw it last weekend.
===================

For me, it would be great to re-sign the running game and our number one receiver (Blount, Wendell, Hooman and Edelman) and see how the 2nd year receivers develop. Our offense could be awesome with NO star downfield threat.

Belechick had been flirting with using a fullback last season when we had Gronk and the murderer. Deciding to go with the rookies and Gronks late recovery, he pulled the trigger.

One step ahead always. Never complacent.

 

[The_Riddler]

Donks will creep the safeties up, we will need to adjust on the perimeter, here's hoping Dobson shows up to practice tomorrow.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

Donks will creep the safeties up, we will need to adjust on the perimeter, here's hoping Dobson shows up to practice tomorrow.

I heard from someone (zolak?) that he was almost ready to go last week. I saw it posted on here somewhere. So maybe he will and can stomach some of the pain.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

I heard from someone (zolak?) that he was almost ready to go last week. I saw it posted on here somewhere. So maybe he will and can stomach some of the pain.

I saw a tweet from someone saying Zo said that but I've yet to hear confirmation. Maybe you're it.

As for the thread, I don't think this was the first or even second plan but once Gronk was out we had almost no option to become a running team.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

I saw a tweet from someone saying Zo said that but I've yet to hear confirmation. Maybe you're it.



As for the thread, I don't think this was the first or even second plan but once Gronk was out we had almost no option to become a running team.

I haven't heard anymore, just that zo said it. Hope it is true. Load him up on pain killers.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

I haven't heard anymore, just that zo said it. Hope it is true. Load him up on pain killers.

So you didn't actually hear it ? Too bad, Dobson isn't a world beater but he'd (he'll) make all the difference if he could be out there against this mediocre secondary.

 

[nabwong]

I remember at the start of the season, everyone was giving develin a hard time because they can't seem to fathom why a fullback should command a roster spot in this day and age of pass first offense. They also wanna cut blount for being a lousy returner and we already had bolden. Now we have a 500lb backfield that will steam roll anyone in its path.

Check our red zone stats (TD percentage)

57.75% - 2013 average - good for 8th
69.23% - our last 3 games
83.33% - last game

Denver's
76.06% - average
63.64% - last 3
75.00% - last game

source: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct

 

[Tunescribe]

Donks will creep the safeties up, we will need to adjust on the perimeter, here's hoping Dobson shows up to practice tomorrow.

Or that Thompkins is full-go. I'm not holding my breath over Dobson the rest of this season. If he actually is fighting a stress fracture in his foot, that's got to be hard to play on. When he pulled up on a fly route and took himself out of the Buffalo game, it was obvious he just couldn't run.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

So you didn't actually hear it ? Too bad, Dobson isn't a world beater but he'd (he'll) make all the difference if he could be out there against this mediocre secondary.

Just on here is where I heard it.

 

[supafly]

The patriots easily won a playoff game against a team against a top team with Brady under 200 yards almost by design, with ZERO passes to a WR (all catches were by slot receivers, TE's and running backs). And, the patriots had six rushing touchdowns.

The difference maker in the game was the run blocking: by the OL, the TE's and by our FB.
Yes, Hooman and Develin were critical. Weren't we told at the beginning of the season that we didn't need a fullback, certainly not if we have a good blocking end.

Belichick made a decision at the beginning of the year. He would go without a #1 receiver.
Some argue that he didn't even have a player who could be a #2 receiver on other teams.
We all expected the passing game to develop as the season developed. Well, Belichick had a Plan B, and we saw it last weekend.
===================

For me, it would be great to re-sign the running game and our number one receiver (Blount, Wendell, Hooman and Edelman) and see how the 2nd year receivers develop. Our offense could be awesome with NO star downfield threat.

I agree that all of the overachievers such as Devlin, Hooman, etc should be highly praised for their awesome blocking and physicality on Saturday night.

However, the thoughts of this either:

1. Being by design

2. Being an acceptable trait for next year

are almost crazy in my opinion.

The idea was to become more balanced in the run game, and to take advantage of IND's 26th ranked rush defense. You also have to take into acct the fact that all week the weather was made to be a huge factor, which made the running game even more important in its execution.

If we can do this vs top 5 teams with rush defenses then I'd believe in it more. However, we just saw Brady put the ball up 60 times last year in the rain in Seattle by design, as to best keep away from SEA's obvious strength vs the run.

I don't doubt that we'll be better in the passing offense next year, but that's not saying much with the way the bar was set so low this season. Only time will tell if we can play effectively enough to win the next 2 games and add another Lombardi trophy, but the odds are probably that you'll be rethinking this strategy during the offseason even if we do. Another WR option who is reasonably priced in free agency would go an awfully long way to help making us much tougher.

 

[Ring 6]

The patriots easily won a playoff game against a team against a top team with Brady under 200 yards almost by design, with ZERO passes to a WR (all catches were by slot receivers, TE's and running backs). And, the patriots had six rushing touchdowns.

The difference maker in the game was the run blocking: by the OL, the TE's and by our FB.
Yes, Hooman and Develin were critical. Weren't we told at the beginning of the season that we didn't need a fullback, certainly not if we have a good blocking end.

Belichick made a decision at the beginning of the year. He would go without a #1 receiver.
Some argue that he didn't even have a player who could be a #2 receiver on other teams.
We all expected the passing game to develop as the season developed. Well, Belichick had a Plan B, and we saw it last weekend.
===================

For me, it would be great to re-sign the running game and our number one receiver (Blount, Wendell, Hooman and Edelman) and see how the 2nd year receivers develop. Our offense could be awesome with NO star downfield threat.

The plan has never changed.
Build the best team you can, with the best players you can get, and place value on the entire 53 man roster.
Teach situation football.
Game plan for each opponent.
Play to your strengths and their weaknesses.
This is why every team BB has put together has been a winner, regardless of where the strengths and weaknesses lie.

By the way Edelman and Amendola are WRs. They caught passes mostly from WR positions, not the slot.

 

[PatsFan24]

Belechick had been flirting with using a fullback last season when we had Gronk and the murderer. Deciding to go with the rookies and Gronks late recovery, he pulled the trigger.

One step ahead always. Never complacent.

This is an unfortunate choice of words.

 

[smg93]

Over the last few years, passing has seemed to be the focus in order to score lots of points rather than running it. I've read quite a bit over the last few weeks about how DEN has that fantastic passing game (which it does) and how the Pats have turned to the running game the last few games to find success (which it has).

The interesting tidbit for me is that over the last 8 regular season games DEN has scored 263 points. The Pats in that same span - 265 points.

Hmmm, maybe passing the ball doesn't always equate to higher point totals. But I do understand however that points also include Defense and Special Teams scoring and not just offense but people seem to think this is a Pats versus Greatest Show on Turf type of season, but I don't think the gap in scoring punch today is as big as 2001

 

[supafly]

Over the last few years, passing has seemed to be the focus in order to score lots of points rather than running it. I've read quite a bit over the last few weeks about how DEN has that fantastic passing game (which it does) and how the Pats have turned to the running game the last few games to find success (which it has).

The interesting tidbit for me is that over the last 8 regular season games DEN has scored 263 points. The Pats in that same span - 265 points.

Hmmm, maybe passing the ball doesn't always equate to higher point totals.

In a perfect world, we'd be able to run effectively enough when the more physical teams lined up in nickel in an attempt to try and dare us to run (see NYJ '10 loss, BAL '12 loss, and arguably the NYG '11 loss), even though we COULD pass effectively enough should we choose to. Much of a "pick your poison" type situation that screams balance, and the hope that we can run effectively enough to catch them with play action passes--just the same way that we did on Sat vs IND.

We've discussed these past 3 big game losses time and again, and how these teams were able to stop our passing game by putting out another DB. More importantly, we've discussed how ineffective we were in running the ball in these situations of obvious importance.

I don't think any of us care which is more effective, as long as we score enough points. The concern of course, is that we may have just reversed areas of strength and weakness, and now it'll be the passing game that may fall short when the running game is much improved. Hopefully we can continue to get Edelman good looks with the quicker timing passes, as have Amendola step up and catch a few key passes. If we had a viable outside threat in a guy like Aaron Dobson, things could be just fine. The other side of the coin is that we could think about using a guy like Austin Collie to try and take advantage of our shorter passing game, just the same as in our past failures, only this time we wouldn't fall short in the run game.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, we get the "best players we can" and have the best active roster we can each week.

This does not address the many resource decisions made before the season starts. Belichick CHOSE to carry a fullback this year. He chose to draft 2 running backs when he drafted Vereen and Ridley.

You speak as if Belichick and the staff don't have idea of what they want on offense, defense and special teams.

The plan has never changed.
Build the best team you can, with the best players you can get, and place value on the entire 53 man roster.
Teach situation football.
Game plan for each opponent.
Play to your strengths and their weaknesses.
This is why every team BB has put together has been a winner, regardless of where the strengths and weaknesses lie.

By the way Edelman and Amendola are WRs. They caught passes mostly from WR positions, not the slot.

 

[Ring 6]

Over the last few years, passing has seemed to be the focus in order to score lots of points rather than running it. I've read quite a bit over the last few weeks about how DEN has that fantastic passing game (which it does) and how the Pats have turned to the running game the last few games to find success (which it has).

The interesting tidbit for me is that over the last 8 regular season games DEN has scored 263 points. The Pats in that same span - 265 points.

Hmmm, maybe passing the ball doesn't always equate to higher point totals. But I do understand however that points also include Defense and Special Teams scoring and not just offense but people seem to think this is a Pats versus Greatest Show on Turf type of season, but I don't think the gap in scoring punch today is as big as 2001

Not so fast.
In the second half of the season passing yards
Denver 2576 #1
Patriots 2412 #2
Contrary to what you hear around here, we threw the ball very effectively in the second half of the season, even if the weather has led to a lot of running in recent weeks.
Rushing yards
Denver 1010 #10
Patriots 1100 #6

Not a huge difference.

So it does seem you need to throw the ball to score a lot of points.

Brady second half of season:
209-321 65.1% 2519 yards 16 TD 5 Int

In other words Brady played the second half at the level that would add up to a full season of 5000 yards and 32 TDs.
Can we please stop talking like we can't throw the ball?

 

[mgteich]

Sorry, I missed your point.

I think that it is indeed acceptable to have strong running game, with a top blocking TE and a fullback, and at least one player like Blount who can pound the ball.

I think that we should by design be a strong running team. That is what is needed to be balanced.

As we spend more time, starting in mid-February, to look to next year, we will need to decide how important a strong run defense is. After all, as always, we have resource issues, and also roster decisions.

Josh kept a strong blocking TE and a fullback on the team by design. He brought in a potential Corey Dillion, even though we already had Ridley, Vereen and Blount on the squad.
I hope we do the same next year.

I agree that all of the overachievers such as Devlin, Hooman, etc should be highly praised for their awesome blocking and physicality on Saturday night.

However, the thoughts of this either:

1. Being by design

2. Being an acceptable trait for next year

are almost crazy in my opinion.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, we get the "best players we can" and have the best active roster we can each week.

This does not address the many resource decisions made before the season starts. Belichick CHOSE to carry a fullback this year. He chose to draft 2 running backs when he drafted Vereen and Ridley.

We have had FBs before. We always have FBs in camp. Until the season evolved Develin barely played. He made the team as a special teamer and FB.
Please lets not revise history and say BB went out and got a FB as an offseason plan to revamp the offense.

We always carry RBs, I dont understand what you think these draft picks mean.

You speak as if Belichick and the staff don't have idea of what they want on offense, defense and special teams.

Not sure where that comes from. The team evolves, especially with injuries.

If you are implying BB suddenly decided in the offseason to stop throwing the ball, how did Brady throw for over 2500 yards in the second half of the season?
The running game became effective, the weather got bad, we started using it more. Until a couple of weeks ago the discussion on this board was about why we never run the ball.