What's the deal with Thompkins?

[manxman2601]

Funny we have each had similar thoughts but about different players. I actually wonder if it might be Amendola who could be the odd man out this offseason. I am not sure of the exact cap ramifications and plenty of time for him to change my mind but even with Thompkins taking a step back as of late one has to wonder if having two young WRs might make an injury prone Amendola more expendeble.

Also dont forget that Edelman will be a free agent again and his presence or abscence would make a big difference in this discussion. But for this discussion lets assume we resign him.

At that point I think Edelman, Amendola, Dobson, Thompkins, and Boyce would be the group you would have and this is perfectly fine and if Dobson and Thompkins were to have sophmore leaps then this could be a great group but the improvement of the group would solely lie on the developement where as you may want to bring in someone else like Emanuel Sanders or everyones dream Fitzgerald.

I think in the end the wise move and more realistic moves would be to go with the 5 above and try to imporove on the 2nd TE as way to improve your offense and receiving targets. But I think the point remains that the developement of Dobson and Thompkins makes the WR position that much more crowded in the offseason and if you want to add a player to this group it might be at the cost of one of the 4 from last year (KT, Amendola, Boyce, and Dobson).

Also might make more sense for Boyce to be that odd man instead of KT like you suggest or Amendola like I did but I think having not seen him on the field oddly gives him a pass in this convo because we dont have the negatives to pick on.

Finally just to be clear this is nothing I think should or will happen just that I realize like you that the WR position will be fairly crowded this offseason and if you want to add to the group a tough decision will likely need to be made.

I'm not suggesting that Thompkins should be cut at all, just that, as you say, there is good depth there and that I do believe that Dobson and Amendola are relatively safe (too much invested). I'm just saying that we shouldn't be surprised if he ends up on the bubble as we get to final cuts.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Its been said that although talented, Thompkins struggles at route running and being at the right place, a rookie thing perhaps. He should use that time to improve so that when someone goes down(and it will happen),he can come back and start catching TD passes again.

 

[Texxx]

Really? Have you seen Dobson's stats after tonight? And that young man is just hitting his stride. I'm sure Dobson will still have some more ups and downs. But he could well end up having the best offensive numbers of any rookie WR this year. Consider these numbers for the leading rookie of the year candidates:

1. Eddie Lacy - 446 yards 4.0 avg 3 TDs

2. DeAndre Hopkins - 416 yards 14.9 avg 2 TDs

3. Aaron Dobson - 454 yards 14.6 yards 4 TDs

I don't think it is out of place at all to mention Dobson as an OROY candidate. If he continues to click with Brady like he did tonight, he could run away with the award. Crazy thought, yes but not at all outlandish.

PS I'm not worried about Thompkins. He will get his chances. He's shown too much for me to believe that the coaching staff has suddenly lost confidence in him.

Yes, but how many drops does Dobson have? I would imagine that he would be leading the league or be in the top 3.

 

[Sciz]

Amendola costs $2.25M more to cut than to keep.

 

[jmt57]

The question about Thompkins was brought up in yesterday's game thread prior to kickoff when it was announced he was inactive; I'll say the same thing here that I said then.

I think that it is simply a case of Collie outplaying him, plus Amendola now being back.

It is a numbers game; who are you going to keep off the field to give KT reps? If you make KT active and give him as well as the other wide receivers reps, then how thin do you become at other positions on game day? Are you going to have enough backups at other positions to be comfortable going into a game, in case of the inevitable injury?



I think if Thompkins was still the primary WR then that would be more of an issue than if he had dropped on the depth chart, because it would mean

• Danny Amendola was still unable to play
• The Austin Collie signing did not work out
• The team's top draft pick had not progressed at all
• Julian Edelman had become unreliable

Collie is an NFL veteran with three seasons of 50+ receptions; look past the concussion issues and he is pretty good player. When healthy Amendola is a very good receiver as well; it stands to reason that if they are not injured then they should be getting more playing time than Thompkins. Similarly Dobson is a player with more pure talent and a higher ceiling, so it makes sense that he is getting reps; if not, then the fact that KT was still hypothetically outplaying Dobson is a bigger story and far more concerning.



Thompkins getting less playing time than he was earlier in the year is not necessarily a case of bad news; it is more about the others now being where they should be. I'm glad he is on the roster even if he is not getting the snaps he was earlier, because as we have seen on a weekly basis injuries are the rule and not the exception in the NFL, so quality depth is vital to the success of a team.

 

[Brady6]

Sorry, why is it crazy? Of course they are not rookie of the years, but KT had the best stats amongst all rookie wrs up until 2 games ago. He's currently sitting at number four despite having highly diminished snaps recently.

If you watch the tape he consistently beats zone coverage and single man to man. And a lot of the missed targets are bad throws by Brady.

This is an obvious high first round pick in a redo. Now, he might not continue to improve the way a physical specimen like Dobson or Patterson might,but there is no doubt that he's already a good wr.

I think you drank to much Kool-Aide Thompkins is an average receiver in terms if size and athletic ability he is a late round draft pick at best even if he didn't come with the baggage. Calling him a good receiver is ignoring the fact that only 2 receivers in the NFL have caught a lower percentage of their targets than Thompkins 41% this season. Thompkins was a nice training camp story who was especially appealing because he seemed to be the utter opposite of Aaron Hernandez but expectations got carried away, Thompkins ceiling as a player and this is best case scenario would likely be Jabar Gaffney.

 

[Brady6]

Amendola costs $2.25M more to cut than to keep.

I have not been a fan of Amendola even his game yesterday had more to do with the Steelers not even covering him than his play, that said the potential player Amendola could be is worth keeping around for at least one more season in my opinion no matter what we could or could not save in cap money.

 

[Brady6]

Yes, but how many drops does Dobson have? I would imagine that he would be leading the league or be in the top 3.

He has 6 but he hasn't dropped a pass since the saints game.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2013/

 

[kennyb]

They're not getting rid of Amendola next year IMO. A huge part of the offense is knowing where to be. Plus he has great hands, etc.

The only reason THomkins had so much production is because he was thrown to so much. On another team with talented WRs he might not even see the field.

 

[kennyb]

He has 6 but he hasn't dropped a pass since the saints game.

Dropped Passes - 2013 - NFL Season Statistics

He dropped at least one horrific one yesterday. 3rd down pass the ball went through his forearms. It was bizarre. He leapt when he didn't have to and reached down and it went through his forearms.

 

[upstater1]

I think you drank to much Kool-Aide Thompkins is an average receiver in terms if size and athletic ability he is a late round draft pick at best even if he didn't come with the baggage. Calling him a good receiver is ignoring the fact that only 2 receivers in the NFL have caught a lower percentage of their targets than Thompkins 41% this season. Thompkins was a nice training camp story who was especially appealing because he seemed to be the utter opposite of Aaron Hernandez but expectations got carried away, Thompkins ceiling as a player and this is best case scenario would likely be Jabar Gaffney.

He has good size and good speed. Should be no surprise that he is very raw. He is.

How did Deion Branch, Troy Brown and David Givens do in their first years?

Did any of them have highlight catches in the end zone like KT?

 

[BradyFTW!]

The deal with Thompkins is that Amendola and Gronk are back and Dobson is better than him. For a guy like Thompkins to succeed in the NFL (decent size and athleticism), he needs to run great routes and have fantastic hands, and neither has been the case so far. If you're going to work through a rookie receiver's growing pains, it might as well be Dobson, who has elite size and athleticism working in his favor.

Thompkins still has plenty of time to turn into a fine NFL player, but he has lots to improve on before you can reasonably give him snaps over Edelman or Amendola during a playoff push. The Pats' offense is no longer desperate for receivers.

 

[BradyFTW!]

He dropped at least one horrific one yesterday. 3rd down pass the ball went through his forearms. It was bizarre. He leapt when he didn't have to and reached down and it went through his forearms.

Yeah, I know exactly which play you're talking about and it was really bad.

Yes, but how many drops does Dobson have? I would imagine that he would be leading the league or be in the top 3.

So what? That's kind the point, the Patriots currently have two rookies who are prone to dropping the ball. One has elite size and athleticism, and one has decent size and athleticism. If you're going to take your lumps with one of them, it's pretty obvious which one that should (and will) be. Thompkins isn't anywhere near the athlete that Dobson is, so if he wants to take snaps from him, then he needs to do it by excelling at other things where Dobson is weaker, such as not dropping the ball.

 

[Brady6]

He dropped at least one horrific one yesterday. 3rd down pass the ball went through his forearms. It was bizarre. He leapt when he didn't have to and reached down and it went through his forearms.

Are you referring to the sideline pattern when he leaped back towards the ball that was an offline back shoulder pass? I felt like there was some interference on that play, technically it did not count as drop.

 

[jmt57]

Exploring Kenbrell Thompkins' slide - New England Patriots Blog - espnBoston

Mike Reiss comments on Thompkins:

Overall on Sunday, the Patriots dressed three tight ends and fullback James Develin, which had them going with just four receivers, as veteran Austin Collie was the No. 4 option over Thompkins. With Collie leaving the game with a knee injury in the second quarter and not returning, Thompkins could very well be back in the lineup Nov. 18 at Carolina.
​

Bill Belichick comments on Thompkins:

"I think KT is still making good progress and is working hard. I haven't seen any let-up in his effort level or trying to do things that he knows he needs to do. I think he'll continue to improve and help our football team.

"The way things went yesterday with the game plan, a combination of factors, we felt like we activated the 46 players that would give us the best chance to win. We do that same thing every week. However that turns out, it will be a week-to-week decision for everybody.

"I don't think anybody has lost any confidence in KT. I certainly haven't. I think he's made a lot of improvement this year."​

Josh McDaniels comments on Thompkins:

"In each week, there are so many things that go into a game plan and so many decisions that are made based on special teams or what packages people are using offensively or defensively, or what we need to have up for the game in terms of our depth. I think a lot of those decisions, Coach [Belichick] makes, and there is a lot of things that go into those.

"With Kenbrell, there's no real change in terms of what we've seen from different guys. I think everybody is working hard and contributing in practice, and then whatever ends up happening at the end of the week, and the way that Bill decides to go with it, it's really his choice and his decision based on how he sees the game being played. I'll leave that up to him, and like I said, everybody is contributing. Some weeks it's a different formula at receiver, and the same thing could be said for the tight ends. That's just the way this goes and we're going to continue to work with everybody."​

WEEI » It Is What It Is » Tom Brady on D&C: ‘Everything kind of worked out the way that we hoped it would’

Tom Brady comments on Thompkins:

“(Aaron Dobson) tracked the ball, caught it and finished the play, which was a great thing. That’s hard to do for a rookie receiver. He’s been thrown in the mix, as Kenbrell [Thompkins] has, and Josh Boyce has. All three of them added something different to our team at this point, and we’re going to need them all going down the stretch, because this is about the the time of the year where you really see what the football teams are all about.”​

 

[Deus Irae]

Are you referring to the sideline pattern when he leaped back towards the ball that was an offline back shoulder pass? I felt like there was some interference on that play, technically it did not count as drop.

Technically, a lot of drops don't count as drops. That's why the official drop stat is pretty useless. If the league is going to count drops, it needs to do a much better job at determining when something actually is a drop.

And the interference on that play, such as it was, would have been on Dobson, not the defender.

 

[Froob]

Amendola costs $2.25M more to cut than to keep.

How does that work?

 

[kennyb]

How does that work?

To keep him you pay his salary and his cap hit is salary plus amortization of bonus.

To cut him you don't pay salary and his cap his is the amortizaiton of all unamortized bonus.

For example, if his bonus is 12M for 4 years, that's 3M per year.

If he's cut next year, then the hit is 9M.

If you keep him and his salary is 1.5M, then his cap hit is 1.5M + 3M or 4.5M.

So in THAT case it'd be 4.5M more on the cap to cut him. I don't think he'll be even close to being cut unless he gets some tragic injury.

 

[kennyb]

Are you referring to the sideline pattern when he leaped back towards the ball that was an offline back shoulder pass? I felt like there was some interference on that play, technically it did not count as drop.

That was it. I was just shaking my head. Then he TOTALLY REDEEMED (well kidn of) himself with a back shoulder grab and also the TD grab. Plus he had a catch on a slant albeit not for many yards.

 

[Kontradiction]

I didn't read the entire thread, to be honest. Just thought this would be relevant...

Nick Underhill @Nick_Underhill
Watched every pass to KT (minus Week 2 vs. Jets, which isn’t on Game Rewind). Leaves feet an awful lot. 19 of 45 plays (42 percent).