What's the deal with Thompkins?

[mgteich]

I agree that it is crazy to consider Thompkins a 1st round quality player, and to consider either of them candidates for rookie of the year.

I'm glad we have both these guys, and wouldn't trade them for any other rookie out there, which is crazy if you think about it.

 

[mgteich]

Thompkins is a solid prospect who has shown the coaches that, as of now, he is less valuable to the team this week than any player that was active, including Collie.

If Collie is out in a couple of weeks, Thompkins will possibly be active again.

 

[jsull87]

Seemed to have barely played since catching the game winner vs NO and now he's a healthy scratch? Is he in trouble for some reason?

I don't mean this to pick on you specifically. But, every week after a player has a down game or doesn't play we have a thread asking is there something wrong with them.

It's as simple as the WR Depth chart now goes: Dobson, Amendola starters. Edelman backs up both positions with Collie coming in the Slot in the hurry up. Thompkins is below those guys. If Dobson needs a rest or was out Thompkins would sub straight in. With Gronk back that takes another WR off the field usually (depending if Hooman is in.)

Edelman is ahead of him on the WR chart so therefore Thompkins isn't playing due to Amendola and Gronk being fit.

I like Thompkins but the reality for him is if he wants to get on the field he needs to beat out Edelman/Collie. But if he does then we will have a thread saying "What's the deal with Edelman/Collie?"

 

[RIpats88]

I think it's simply that Brady trusts Collie to be in the right place at the right time more than thompkins...the 4th WR isnt going to be a "Huge" role with Gronk/Amendola back. Edelman is clearly the #3 guy

and Dobson has beat him out as the X receiver

 

[patchick]

I agree that it is crazy to consider Thompkins a 1st round quality player, and to consider either of them candidates for rookie of the year.

Can we go out on a limb and declare Dobson a 2nd round quality player?

 

[Froob]

I don't mean this to pick on you specifically. But, every week after a player has a down game or doesn't play we have a thread asking is there something wrong with them.

It's as simple as the WR Depth chart now goes: Dobson, Amendola starters. Edelman backs up both positions with Collie coming in the Slot in the hurry up. Thompkins is below those guys. If Dobson needs a rest or was out Thompkins would sub straight in. With Gronk back that takes another WR off the field usually (depending if Hooman is in.)

Edelman is ahead of him on the WR chart so therefore Thompkins isn't playing due to Amendola and Gronk being fit.

I like Thompkins but the reality for him is if he wants to get on the field he needs to beat out Edelman/Collie. But if he does then we will have a thread saying "What's the deal with Edelman/Collie?"

I guess, just seems strange he wouldn't play when this team doesn't have a lot of good options to go to and has quite a few injury prone players like Amendola, Edelman, Collie and Gronk. Hopefully we see Thompkins out there Monday Night in two weeks. Hopefully just a numbers thing like you said, maybe they needed more guys at a certain position on defense or something specifically for this game.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I agree that it is crazy to consider Thompkins a 1st round quality player, and to consider either of them candidates for rookie of the year.

Really? Have you seen Dobson's stats after tonight? And that young man is just hitting his stride. I'm sure Dobson will still have some more ups and downs. But he could well end up having the best offensive numbers of any rookie WR this year. Consider these numbers for the leading rookie of the year candidates:

1. Eddie Lacy - 446 yards 4.0 avg 3 TDs

2. DeAndre Hopkins - 416 yards 14.9 avg 2 TDs

3. Aaron Dobson - 454 yards 14.6 yards 4 TDs

I don't think it is out of place at all to mention Dobson as an OROY candidate. If he continues to click with Brady like he did tonight, he could run away with the award. Crazy thought, yes but not at all outlandish.

PS I'm not worried about Thompkins. He will get his chances. He's shown too much for me to believe that the coaching staff has suddenly lost confidence in him.

 

[mgteich]

A receiver who succeeds in his rookie year is a very rare commodity. Dobson will likely be a first rounder when the re-drafts are next done.

Dobson has done more than I expected ANY rookie wide receiver could do for the patriots.

Can we go out on a limb and declare Dobson a 2nd round quality player?

 

[supafly]

Thompkins is a solid prospect who has shown the coaches that, as of now, he is less valuable to the team this week than any player that was active, including Collie.

If Collie is out in a couple of weeks, Thompkins will possibly be active again.

I think it's been very telling that Thompkins only had a total of 13 snaps on the field last week too, and his reps were also down the week before, so it's not like there hasn't been a pattern developing. They haven't really been playing or targeting him much for at least the last 3 games now.

He seemed to be having problems beating his coverage lately and as we already knew, his route running needs work. There were a couple of times last week or the week before where his routes were half-assed to say the least. It's hard to work with more than one rookie at a time in my opinion, and while I had high hopes for Thompkins as recently as a couple of weeks ago, I can't say that I was shocked to see him as a healthy scratch today.

That said, if Collie is down for a couple of games then we can likely expect Thompkins to see another 20-30 snaps again and obviously be active. He's definitely at a crossroads for this particular season though, unless he's thrown back into the fire due to injury. It isn't like we're bringing anyone else in from the outside, that's for sure.

 

[Deus Irae]

Thompkins last 4 games, using ESPN data for targets:

16 targets
8 receptions
77 yards

 

[supafly]

I guess, just seems strange he wouldn't play when this team doesn't have a lot of good options to go to and has quite a few injury prone players like Amendola, Edelman, Collie and Gronk. Hopefully we see Thompkins out there Monday Night in two weeks. Hopefully just a numbers thing like you said, maybe they needed more guys at a certain position on defense or something specifically for this game.

I don't really think it had anything to do with "this game," but that's just my opinion.

Thompkins only saw 13 snaps all of last week, and stood on the sidelines for about 85-90% of the game.

The game before vs the NYJ, he was only targeted once or twice IIRC (EDIT: he was targeted 5x according to ESPN, so I was wrong), and his snaps were down again, although not to the extent of the MIA game. There's been a definite pattern developing here, especially as Collie has been working hard every day trying to get our system down.

We'll probably see him active plenty of times again, especially if Collie is hurt and misses any time; but it would certainly seem as though he needs to win over the coaches and has fallen deeply down on the depth chart. The addition of Gronk, the return of Amendola, and the progression of Collie's knowledge of our verbiage definitely helped to push Thompkins down on the depth chart; and that's not even bringing into account the progress of Dobson, which may be the most important aspect.

 

[supafly]

I was incorrect about Thompkins only being targeted once or twice in the NYJ game two weeks ago, as it was actually 5 times with 2 catches/16 yds, so I wanted to point that out.

Either way, there has indeed been a pattern of late. He wasn't targeted at all last week vs MIA though, and only had 13 total snaps.

 

[manxman2601]

It's not inconceivable that Thompkins might not even be on the 53 next season.

If one assumes 5 WR (I'm not going to account for Slater):

Amendola and Dobson are almost certainly going to be at the top of the depth chart.

Edelman could be a cheap re-sign and considering how well he backs up Amendola and his punt returns, he should be.

Emmanuel Sanders is a possible, maybe probable, signing.

That could leave one potential slot, maybe two, for Thompkins, Boyce, possibly Collie, Harrison, Moe and any draft pick, UDFA or FA signing they make.

And BTW, Amendola, Dobson, Sanders, Edelman plus one the above would be a really nice positional group.

 

[ausbacker]

It's not inconceivable that Thompkins might not even be on the 53 next season.

If one assumes 5 WR (I'm not going to account for Slater):

Amendola and Dobson are almost certainly going to be at the top of the depth chart.

Edelman could be a cheap re-sign and considering how well he backs up Amendola and his punt returns, he should be.

Emmanuel Sanders is a possible, maybe probable, signing.

That could leave one potential slot, maybe two, for Thompkins, Boyce, possibly Collie, Harrison, Moe and any draft pick, UDFA or FA signing they make.

And BTW, Amendola, Dobson, Sanders, Edelman plus one the above would be a really nice positional group.

I really liked what I saw out of Emmanuel Sanders today. He would flourish in New England's scheme with his ability to run routes and create separation. For mine, he's gone from a potentially nice 2013 addition to a must add 2014 player.

 

[Hael]

I agree that it is crazy to consider Thompkins a 1st round quality player, and to consider either of them candidates for rookie of the year.

Sorry, why is it crazy? Of course they are not rookie of the years, but KT had the best stats amongst all rookie wrs up until 2 games ago. He's currently sitting at number four despite having highly diminished snaps recently.

If you watch the tape he consistently beats zone coverage and single man to man. And a lot of the missed targets are bad throws by Brady.

This is an obvious high first round pick in a redo. Now, he might not continue to improve the way a physical specimen like Dobson or Patterson might,but there is no doubt that he's already a good wr.

 

[manxman2601]

Sorry, why is it crazy? Of course they are not rookie of the years, but KT had the best stats amongst all rookie wrs up until 2 games ago. He's currently sitting at number four despite having highly diminished snaps recently.

If you watch the tape he consistently beats zone coverage and single man to man. And a lot of the missed targets are bad throws by Brady.

This is an obvious high first round pick in a redo. Now, he might not continue to improve the way a physical specimen like Dobson or Patterson might,but there is no doubt that he's already a good wr.

Sorry, but there's no way Thompkins is a "high first round pick". Those are the go too guys like Julio Jones and AJ Green. if Thompkins was playing at that level, he wouldn't be being marginalised by Dobson and Collie. He's done well but he lacks elite size and/or athleticism. He's a mid-rounder at best in my view.

 

[Fencer]

probable, signing

There is no such thing at this point of the previous season.

 

[manxman2601]

There is no such thing at this point of the previous season.

Yes. That's why the "maybe" wasn't redundant.

 

[kennyb]

He often seems to be fighting the ball to me. Lots of drops, lots of "why didn't he catch that"?

 

[signbabybrady]

It's not inconceivable that Thompkins might not even be on the 53 next season.

If one assumes 5 WR (I'm not going to account for Slater):

Amendola and Dobson are almost certainly going to be at the top of the depth chart.

Edelman could be a cheap re-sign and considering how well he backs up Amendola and his punt returns, he should be.

Emmanuel Sanders is a possible, maybe probable, signing.

That could leave one potential slot, maybe two, for Thompkins, Boyce, possibly Collie, Harrison, Moe and any draft pick, UDFA or FA signing they make.

And BTW, Amendola, Dobson, Sanders, Edelman plus one the above would be a really nice positional group.

Funny we have each had similar thoughts but about different players. I actually wonder if it might be Amendola who could be the odd man out this offseason. I am not sure of the exact cap ramifications and plenty of time for him to change my mind but even with Thompkins taking a step back as of late one has to wonder if having two young WRs might make an injury prone Amendola more expendeble.

Also dont forget that Edelman will be a free agent again and his presence or abscence would make a big difference in this discussion. But for this discussion lets assume we resign him.

At that point I think Edelman, Amendola, Dobson, Thompkins, and Boyce would be the group you would have and this is perfectly fine and if Dobson and Thompkins were to have sophmore leaps then this could be a great group but the improvement of the group would solely lie on the developement where as you may want to bring in someone else like Emanuel Sanders or everyones dream Fitzgerald.

I think in the end the wise move and more realistic moves would be to go with the 5 above and try to imporove on the 2nd TE as way to improve your offense and receiving targets. But I think the point remains that the developement of Dobson and Thompkins makes the WR position that much more crowded in the offseason and if you want to add a player to this group it might be at the cost of one of the 4 from last year (KT, Amendola, Boyce, and Dobson).

Also might make more sense for Boyce to be that odd man instead of KT like you suggest or Amendola like I did but I think having not seen him on the field oddly gives him a pass in this convo because we dont have the negatives to pick on.

Finally just to be clear this is nothing I think should or will happen just that I realize like you that the WR position will be fairly crowded this offseason and if you want to add to the group a tough decision will likely need to be made.