RI Patriots fan
Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
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I'm part of one God, "based on my logic." The sparks littered about the universe, brighter (like me) or dimmer (like, well, we'll say dust, to keep things civil,) are constituents of something greater. The totality of consciousness is God's, and the totality of what we'd call unconscious matter.
But your quibble, as a polytheist, is that by believing in this one God, I damn myself as a polytheist myself. In philosophy, I believe this is known as Sed quid ego te? or, "I know you are, but what am I?"
Your contention is that to say that two competitors for the title of God having a conversation is the equivalent, in kind if not degree, of billions of consciousnesses here and probably many times that number elsewhere, are all capable of subjective consciousness, and by participating in God, are thereby each a separate, distinct deity -- in this, you follow GIA's lead. I differ from GIA in that regard.
My contention is that the multitude of subjective consciousnesses we know are constituents parts of God -- as are all things. It's similar in this regard to the Indian religions (Hinduism/Buddhism,) which regard all people as manifestations of one underlying spiritual source. But I have no need or desire to stick a few million extra Gods in there (the Buddha seemed to have little use for them too, by comparison with the Hindus.)
There is no God but God, as the Muslims would say. And He is in -- in fact, He is, all of us, I'd add.
The etymological roots of the Tetragrammaton are in the causative stem of the verb "to be." In the Torah, God says "I am that I am." He's left us to discover the extent of that being. That which is, is God.
But as you'll note, God is quite literally a verb, in the above. The stories we tell the children have God -- some large and powerful but not omnipresent or omnipotent being -- creates everything, quite apart from himself, ex nihilo. The Kabalists say first he had to create Nothingness in his midst, and then create everything in a very big-bang-like moment. They're much closer to my understanding, but they still require Creation to be separate from Creator.
Part of the divergence is because most of us can't fathom that the most evil things, people, events, etc. on Earth, must needs be part of God. "The problem of evil," they call it in theology. But in truth, they must. You may put them outside of God, make up a competing deity and another split in your Godhead, but you just end up with a splitting godheadache. Then you need a whole apocalypse to put things right, have the bad god vanquished, unify it all, etc.
Think of God as verb, and you understand that the continuous creation is the manifestation that we can understand and observe of the great thought -- of which we are simultaneously constituent parts.
But the difference in scale and kind between our own vaunted thoughts, and the Divine thought-that-subsumes all, is beyond our capability to imagine.
For a time I wondered whether God is consciousness or pure spirit without consciousness. The difference from our standpoint is ineffable. It may look like pure spirit to us, or simply like a collection of particles and forces, if we prefer. I am convinced that whatever the Whole is, it subsumes our thoughts as -- as I said before -- a brain subsumes neurons.
So in sticking to your slightly-bigger-but-manlike god, together with his man-god son, you've got a couple of essentially human but much more powerful characters. The Holy Spirit may be said to be similar, but it's always apart from man, and it's always got nothing at all to do with evil or dust or dung beatles.
For a monotheist, all of these things must be God.
Your complaint is that two divine consciousnesses at once -- indeed, my words -- constitute polytheism. There is One divine consciousness, however, of which we are parts and in which we participate. We may sometimes have a glimpse of the One, the constant creative consciousness we subdivide into "you" and "me" and "that tree" and so on. We have found that at root, reality is in an always undetermined state until observed -- and even then, we are always uncertain either of what it is or of how it is moving.
Those tiny particles are at the root of us, as well as the root of all dust and dung and stars; we cannot even, as "individuals," even fully see them. They are constantly coming into being as probabilities resolve into realities. The entirety seems like nothing so much as a great thought process, in which "our" tiny constituent parts are inarguably swept up.
Who's the observer, then? The One, observing within Himself. Why can our observations cause the collapse of probabilities into positions? Because we are constituents of, not apart from, the One -- and our thoughts are like drops in a great ocean of thought/spirit.
As I always say: because I attempt to put into words something so much greater than my own limitations, I inevitably lie. But it's certainly a lie of omission rather than commission.
I hope that's helpful to you, RI.
As to your concern that nobody in Judaism can tell me not to think that... sorry, no Pope. Cope.
PFnV
Actually it wasn't helpful at all....not that I'm surprised. I've seen few people who can say so little with so many words.
It seems that you either don't understand or are simply ignoring what it means to be conscious.
"Consciousness refers to your individual awareness of your unique thoughts, memories, feelings, sensations and environment."
Consciousness - What is Consciousness
You say that there is...."One divine consciousness of which we are parts".
Clearly, you and I are conscious. We are aware of our existence, We have unique thoughts, memories, feelings, etc. Yet you say that both of us are parts of God and therefore God.
It is that uniqueness of thought that allows us to say that we are conscious.
So therefore, if we are part of "God" then either God is made up of more than one consciousness or we are not truly conscious.
So either I am a conscious being or I am not a conscious being. If I am a conscious being and I am part of God then God must have more than one consciousness.
Now you can say that we are part of the "one divine consciousness" but if conscious existence is "unique" then to be part of the one divine consciousness we must lose whatever makes us conscious (unique). As a human being, I cannot be truly conscious if I lose what makes me conscious.
So basically you can't have it both ways.
If you and I are truly conscious and our experiences are uniquely our own and if we are part of God, then God must be able to have more than one consciousness.
If you insist that God cannot have more than one consciousness, then we cannot be a part of God since we do have our own unique consciousness.
Since it is plainly obvious that you and I are both conscious, then you and I cannot be a part of God or if we are part of God then God must have more than one consciousness. Either way, you're wrong.