Patrick Chung

[Deus Irae]

Since this thread seems to be diverging, I'll just hit on a couple of things:

Chung was never any good at coverage, as many of us kept trying to tell people. He was never a good safety in N.E. for precisely that reason.

Welker's quickness if fine and he's still getting open faster than anyone else in the league. Those saying otherwise are either not paying attention or making things up.

Welker has been getting doubled, bracketed and/or covered by the opponent's best DB. Those saying otherwise are either not paying attention or making things up.

 

[Kontradiction]

I never said anything about Wes' speed, I was talking about his quickness, which isn't the same as it was.

If that's the case, again, he wouldn't be the only other guy other than Thomas to consistently get doubled. So, apparently, Dean Pees and Perry Fewell disagree with your analysis on that one.

I'm fully aware of what Wes' stats were. Some of that was because teams were doubling Hernandez and giving Wes more single looks

Incorrect. Hernandez reaped the benefit of the attention that Welker drew.

some of it because he is a very good player, as I said he was in one of the posts you quoted.

Correct.

None of this changes the fact that he was beat to hell and could barely pick himself off the ground.

If you're talking about how most NFL players are after a season of football, then that's fine. But you seem to be implying that Wes was even more beat up than the average football player. Two things. One, I didn't see that at all. If he was, he didn't show it. Two, if he was, then that makes what he was doing even more impressive. So pick your poison.

FWIW, I've watched about half of the Denver games so far and have rarely seen Wes get doubled.

He was regularly drawing double coverage through most of the Ravens game outside of, what I could tell, was the first quarter and some of the second quarter. Then the Ravens began to double him because he and Thomas were doing too much damage underneath. That's what ultimately freed up Demaryius and Decker. He was doubled for pretty much the entire game vs. the Giants, hence the brigade of blue jerseys that surrounded him pretty much every time the ball was thrown his way. But, like I said, the eye test is subjective. Maybe you're not seeing these things because you simply don't want to.

 

[Oswlek]

If that's the case, again, he wouldn't be the only other guy other than Thomas to consistently get doubled. So, apparently, Dean Pees and Perry Fewell disagree with your analysis on that one.

Incorrect. Hernandez reaped the benefit of the attention that Welker drew.

Correct.

If you're talking about how most NFL players are after a season of football, then that's fine. But you seem to be implying that Wes was even more beat up than the average football player. Two things. One, I didn't see that at all. If he was, he didn't show it. Two, if he was, then that makes what he was doing even more impressive. So pick your poison.

He was regularly drawing double coverage through most of the Ravens game outside of, what I could tell, was the first quarter and some of the second quarter. Then the Ravens began to double him because he and Thomas were doing too much damage underneath. That's what ultimately freed up Demaryius and Decker. He was doubled for pretty much the entire game vs. the Giants, hence the brigade of blue jerseys that surrounded him pretty much every time the ball was thrown his way. But, like I said, the eye test is subjective. Maybe you're not seeing these things because you simply don't want to.

This conversation is deteriorating, so this will be my last post. Just pulling a few things out:

So, apparently, Dean Pees and Perry Fewell disagree with your analysis on that one.

Not having the same quickness doesn't mean he is useless on the field. This is now the third time I've said he is still a very good player.

Incorrect. Hernandez reaped the benefit of the attention that Welker drew.

This is patently false. AWTE over on Patriotsplanet broke down a few games, most notably the AFCCG loss and the consistent theme is that Ahern was clearly the player the defense worried about most.

Maybe you're not seeing these things because you simply don't want to.

You are Deus have an amusing reaction when people disagree with your assertions. Enjoy the game this weekend.

 

[Kontradiction]

Not having the same quickness doesn't mean he is useless on the field. This is now the third time I've said he is still a very good player.

That's fine, but you're trying to say that defenses haven't been doubling him and that he's lost a step. I'm pointing out to you that WR's that have never had elite top end speed generally don't get doubled when they've lost a step.

This is patently false. AWTE over on Patriotsplanet broke down a few games, most notably the AFCCG loss and the consistent theme is that Ahern was clearly the player the defense worried about most

I actually read that when PatsFans was down one time. I have a lot of respect for AWTE, but the only time that I ever saw an opposing defense worry about Hernandez over Welker was in the red zone. That's natural. Hernandez is a TE and a bigger target in that area of the field.

You are Deus have an amusing reaction when people disagree with your assertions. Enjoy the game this weekend.

I really don't care that you disagree with me at all. I figured that it was bound to happen the moment I typed the word "Welker", into this thread. You weren't the poster I had in mind, though, if that makes you feel better.

Everyone has their view points. But you have to know that the eye test is very subjective. A lot of times you'll see what you want to see instead of what is actually there. It's the same logic that someone searching Google in a debate will naturally pull the article that leans more toward his or her general viewpoint instead of one that appears to be unbiased. I'd have no problem pointing out that Welker lost a step, if I could actually see that he lost one. My eye test as well as the evidence on the field goes against that, though.

 

[PittPatriot]

I'm shocked that a guy who was a complete dumpster fire at safety for the Patriots has proven to be a complete dumpster fire at safety for another team. Same goes for James Ihedigbo.

On the part of the Patriots, this shows that a large part of the defensive struggles were talent and not scheme.

On the part of the Patriots, this shows that a large part of the defensive struggles were talent AND PERSONNEL DECISIONS and not scheme.

I hate it when people do this…but I just did. "Fixed that for ya."

 

[Deus Irae]

...You are Deus have an amusing reaction when people disagree with your assertions. Enjoy the game this weekend.

Ehh.... given that the announcers were pointing out what was happening with the coverages during replays, I don't think my reaction was anything but what it should have been.

 

[Patjew]

I never said anything about Wes' speed, I was talking about his quickness, which isn't the same as it was.

I'm fully aware of what Wes' stats were. Some of that was because teams were doubling Hernandez and giving Wes more single looks, some of it because he is a very good player, as I said he was in one of the posts you quoted.

None of this changes the fact that he was beat to hell and could barely pick himself off the ground. Feel free to dig a little, I wasn't the only person to notice it. In fact, I thought it was pretty much a consensus acknowledgement. :confused2:

FWIW, I've watched about half of the Denver games so far and have rarely seen Wes get doubled.

So you've watched about one of their games?

 

[skspikex2]

Not sure why they ripping only Chung. Eagles offense give up 5 turnovers, the center like to snap curveball, and giving the Chiefs nearly 40 mins of possession time will tired any defense.

 

[Oswlek]

So you've watched about one of their games?

Half of each.

 

[primetime]

I hate it when people do this…but I just did. "Fixed that for ya."

That was implied. Though every team has misses, the Patriots under Belichick have just seemed to miss consistently at certain positions (defensive back, wide receiver), at least in terms of non-established talent. Worth noting that the trend is reversed at certain other positions (defensive and offensive line, mostly), where players seem to work out consistently.

 

[Canuck]

Seems like anytime a player leaves the Patriots and joins another team, you get alot of "I told you he was no good" comments.

My memories of Chung were he was a good tackler and safety teams player but an avg to below avg coverage safety. At times he flashed above avg skills but was inconsistent. He was too often injured to be a reliable safety. 2012 he wasn't good by any standards.

My fav Chung memory was the Miami game where a blocked a punt that was turned into a TD, A blocked FG that got returned for a TD by Arrington and an interception that he returned for a TD.

 

[ATippett56]

I'll take a well thought out post that ends up being wrong over a correct "he sucks" any day.

No thanks.

Josh Barrett sucks!
James Ihedigbo sucks!
Sergio Brown sucks!

The aforementioned "Three Stooges" suck!

I feel better already.

 

[Kontradiction]

No thanks.

Josh Barrett sucks!
James Ihedigbo sucks!
Sergio Brown sucks!

The aforementioned "Three Stooges" suck!

I feel better already.

I've made well thought out posts about why those three plus Chung are not that good in recent years. I really don't need to make well thought out posts about them anymore. They suck suffices.

 

[mosi]

WIP and it's morning host Angelo Cataldi (who is very very good) is ripping Chung for his play, or lack thereof last night. It's good radio.

First of all, even implying that Angelo Cataldi knows anything about anything is just plain stupid. This is the monkey that lead to booing of Donovan Mcnabb on draft day. He is the lowest of low and represents all that is wrong with Philadelphia and Pennsylvania as a whole.

Regardless, Chung is not a good safety. Another draft bust for Bill.

 

[Canuck]

First of all, even implying that Angelo Cataldi knows anything about anything is just plain stupid. This is the monkey that lead to booing of Donovan Mcnabb on draft day. He is the lowest of low and represents all that is wrong with Philadelphia and Pennsylvania as a whole.

Regardless, Chung is not a good safety. Another draft bust for Bill.

Patriots fan defintion of draft bust: Any player drafted in first or second round and no longer on Patriots team.

 

[Kontradiction]

Patriots fan defintion of draft bust: Any player drafted in first or second round and no longer on Patriots team.

That's most peoples' definition of a draft bust. Whenever you draft a guy in the first or high in the second round, you're doing it with the intention that the guy will make a long term impact on the team... not be allowed to leave it or get cut after three years.

 

[Wrath Mania]

It has been pretty entertaining down here in the Philly area to see how people are reacting to the revelation Chung is awful. "I guess that's why the guy up in New England got rid of him," one moron opined on WIP. Honestly, watching this Eagles defense reminds me a lot of the 11' Patriots defense, though this secondary is probably significantly worse. But it's just the same feeling I think; knowing they're probably not gonna hold the fort when it really matters. And unlike the '11 Patriots, the offense is led by Vick, who reverted to his confounded form last night. Not the best thing in the world. My brother is an Eagles fan, and he had to suffer through the tumultuous end of the Reid era, and I also like Chip's mind, so I kind of want them to do all right. That said, it was nice to see the big red tomato get back at this at-times very dumbass city.

 

[Deus Irae]

Patriots fan defintion of draft bust: Any player drafted in first or second round and no longer on Patriots team.

I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, Pat, but you really do suck. You can't cover worth a damn. On the bright side, Chip Kelly didn't figure it out until it was too late, so you've still made millions on a second contract. Bank that cash, homie!

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, Pat, but you really do suck. You can't cover worth a damn. On the bright side, Chip Kelly didn't figure it out until it was too late, so you've still made millions on a second contract. Bank that cash, homie!

Before I made that post to him, I was honestly wondering what the chances are of that actually being Chung.

 

[patsfan-1982]

I've made well thought out posts about why those three plus Chung are not that good in recent years. I really don't need to make well thought out posts about them anymore. They suck suffices.

agreed i guess some fans forget 4703 yards passing and 26 TD's in 2011 the 2ed worst pass defense in NFL history and the only reason they are not the worst is because GB did not play some of three starters the last game of the season and Matthew Stafford had over 500 yards passing and still GB only gave up 90 more yards then the pats that year lol