Patrick Chung

[Kontradiction]

LOL. Well there were some who claimed BB was slipping in the tactical department. At least we can point the finger of blame squarely at his inability to 'shop for groceries' now.

Speaking of safeties, has anyone noted who well Adrian Wilson is fitting in? Is he going to be a regular rotation player at safety or just a spare part for us?

I really wish we hadn't drafted Chung now but at the time he was the 'second best' option because the Rams snaked Delmas just one pick ahead of us. Looking back at the draft now, we probably should have gone for Sean Smith instead to address our secondary needs.

National Football League: NFL Draft Tracker 2009

Wilson is done for the year. Injured reserve.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

LOL. Well there were some who claimed BB was slipping in the tactical department. At least we can point the finger of blame squarely at his inability to 'shop for groceries' now.

Speaking of safeties, has anyone noted how well Adrian Wilson is fitting in? Is he going to be a regular rotation player at safety or just a spare part for us?

I really wish we hadn't drafted Chung now but at the time he was the 'second best' option because the Rams snaked Delmas just one pick ahead of us. Looking back at the draft now, we probably should have gone for Sean Smith instead to address our secondary needs.

National Football League: NFL Draft Tracker 2009

William Moore would have been a better choice, he was the better player.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Wilson is done for the year. Injured reserve.

Ouch. Too bad, I had hopes for him. But it looks like we'll have to make do with the able bodied players we have left.

William Moore would have been a better choice, he was the better player.

Sigh. Why has our scouting department been so AWFUL selecting CBs/DBs over that 5 year period? I mean McCourty and Dennard have been great for us recently. But Chung and Dowling were busts. And there have been numerous 2nd/3rd round DB picks beyond counting who have not panned out.

 

[Oswlek]

How do you measure that? Did you time him in his 40? Because, if you're going by the eye test (which I think you are), you should be reminded that the "eye test" is subjective. I honestly don't see a step lost. The drops are a problem, yes, but he still looks as quick as he ever has.

He is nowhere near as quick as he was in 2007-2008 and isn't even where he was in 2011. He looks about the same as he did last year, but last year he was beat up so badly that he could barely pick himself up off the ground late in the season. So, either he is hurt and will return to the 2011 levels or he is going through a normal decline. Either one sounds plausible to me.

 

[shmessy]

I never trusted him in a pass defending situation.

Really is a frustrated LB in a safety's body.

 

[mgteich]

He was an OK backup strong safety. He was injured several times and didn't live up to his draft spot (this happens to most who are injured). In any case, he played out his 4 years for us, and should have contributed more.

Of course, the problem was that Belichick didn't do enough with regard to bring in talent after Chung.

IMHO, Chung was a a solid sepcial teamer and an OK backup when healthy.

I understand there are those who are much better at the draft than our front office. For them, a 50% success rate is terrible, and for them, it there should be no problem in avoiding players who will be injured. Unfortunately, our fron office is not good enough to predict injuries.

And, yes, maybe T Wilson will be starting in three years in the NFL, or not.

 

[Spiral]

I really wish we hadn't drafted Chung now but at the time he was the 'second best' option because the Rams snaked Delmas just one pick ahead of us. Looking back at the draft now, we probably should have gone for Sean Smith instead to address our secondary needs.

National Football League: NFL Draft Tracker 2009

Agree 100%. Well, maybe 99%. Wasn't he picked by the Lions?

 

[Brady6]

I'm shocked that a guy who was a complete dumpster fire at safety for the Patriots has proven to be a complete dumpster fire at safety for another team. Same goes for James Ihedigbo.

On the part of the Patriots, this shows that a large part of the defensive struggles were talent and not scheme.

Very good point here, I will admit I thought part of the problem with certain players not working out was the change in scheme from a 34 zone cover to a 43/34 hybrid man cover scheme.

I thought these players in particular were affected:

• Ron Brace fit best as a 5tech DE in a 34 front.
• Pat Chung and Brandon Meriweather fit best as enforcer safeties in zone.
• Jermaine Cunningham fit best as a SOLB in a 34 front.

My assumption was way off base however; because all of these players have either struggled either on their new teams or to even find a job.

 

[Kontradiction]

He is nowhere near as quick as he was in 2007-2008 and isn't even where he was in 2011.

Welker's strength has never been his top end speed. It's always been explosive quickness in and out of cuts. He and Demaryius Thomas are the only two on the Broncos that are consistently being doubled. Defenses don't double a guy that has never had explosive top end speed and has lost a step. It simply doesn't happen.

He looks about the same as he did last year, but last year he was beat up so badly that he could barely pick himself up off the ground late in the season. So, either he is hurt and will return to the 2011 levels or he is going through a normal decline. Either one sounds plausible to me.

In his final three games, his stats looked like this: 5/56/0, 10/88/1, and 8/94/1 for a total of 23 rec., 238 yards, and 2 TD's. In the playoffs: 8/131/0, 8/117/1. Total: 16 rec., 248 yards, and 1 TD. That hardly seems like a guy that got beat up so badly that he could barely pick himself up off the ground. If he looks the same as he did last year, then that's fantastic news for Broncos fans and bad news for Pats fans.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Again, I just can't imagine what the Eagles were thinking by signing this guy and putting him in a position where he has to cover a lot. There's now years of NFL game tape showing that he simply can't do that. Honestly, this personnel decision alone is making me wonder a bit about the competence of that front office. Any Patriots fan could have told you that he's worthless in coverage. I could understand a bit if injuries had forced the situation, but by all appearances this was the plan that they had in place coming into the season.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Agree 100%. Well, maybe 99%. Wasn't he picked by the Lions?

Delmas was picked by the Lions, yes. To be fair, though, he's turned out to be pretty bad too.

 

[Kontradiction]

Again, I just can't imagine what the Eagles were thinking by signing this guy and putting him in a position where he has to cover a lot. There's now years of NFL game tape showing that he simply can't do that. Honestly, this personnel decision alone is making me wonder a bit about the competence of that front office. Any Patriots fan could have told you that he's worthless in coverage. I could understand a bit if injuries had forced the situation, but by all appearances this was the plan that they had in place coming into the season.

You think you know better than Chip Kelly?

 

[BradyFTW!]

He was an OK backup strong safety. He was injured several times and didn't live up to his draft spot (this happens to most who are injured). In any case, he played out his 4 years for us, and should have contributed more.

Of course, the problem was that Belichick didn't do enough with regard to bring in talent after Chung.

IMHO, Chung was a a solid sepcial teamer and an OK backup when healthy.

I understand there are those who are much better at the draft than our front office. For them, a 50% success rate is terrible, and for them, it there should be no problem in avoiding players who will be injured. Unfortunately, our fron office is not good enough to predict injuries.

And, yes, maybe T Wilson will be starting in three years in the NFL, or not.

The problem with Chung is that he was only useful playing the role of strong safety in run support, but in order to take on that role he had to play bigger than he was. His injuries were a direct result of him playing the only role he was capable of playing, without having the body to play it week in and week out. That's why he was always hurt, and it's why he's already hurt three games into his Eagles career.

In other words, his injuries were inevitable and predictable. He has the skills of a strong safety and the body of a free safety. If he plays the former role he gets hurt, and if he plays the latter role he's terrible.

To be fair, lots of smaller strong safeties end up following the career arc of "really good when healthy, but rarely healthy" for the exact same reason, and I have to think that teams know when they're drafting SSs in the ~5'11, 210 range, they're drafting a guy who will likely have trouble staying on the field. In that case, you probably just hope that the injuries don't pile up until his second contract, and that when healthy he's really good. Polamalu and Bob Sanders immediately come to mind. The difference is that Chung has the same injury issues, but isn't very good even when he's healthy.

 

[BradyFTW!]

You think you know better than Chip Kelly?

Apparently I know what Chung can and can't do a whole lot better than Chip Kelly does, because at any point in this offseason I (and most posters here) could have told you that relying on Chung in coverage is a recipe for unmitigated disaster.

 

[Rob0729]

I really didn't know what happened to Chung. At one point he started to become a fairly good safety. And then he completely went to crap.

 

[Kontradiction]

Apparently I know what Chung can and can't do a whole lot better than Chip Kelly does, because at any point in this offseason I (and most posters here) could have told you that relying on Chung in coverage is a recipe for unmitigated disaster.

Why this logic can't be applied to Bill Belichick, and some of the personnel moves he's made, I honestly have no idea.

EDIT: And yes, I agree. Chung couldn't cover a one-legged prostitute.

 

[patsfan-1982]

Again, I just can't imagine what the Eagles were thinking by signing this guy and putting him in a position where he has to cover a lot. There's now years of NFL game tape showing that he simply can't do that. Honestly, this personnel decision alone is making me wonder a bit about the competence of that front office. Any Patriots fan could have told you that he's worthless in coverage. I could understand a bit if injuries had forced the situation, but by all appearances this was the plan that they had in place coming into the season.

for me James Ihedigbo starting for the ravens is even worst the ravens have a good front office and are known for good defense yet they are starting Ihedigbo lol

 

[Oswlek]

Welker's strength has never been his top end speed. It's always been explosive quickness in and out of cuts. He and Demaryius Thomas are the only two on the Broncos that are consistently being doubled. Defenses don't double a guy that has never had explosive top end speed and has lost a step. It simply doesn't happen.

In his final three games, his stats looked like this: 5/56/0, 10/88/1, and 8/94/1 for a total of 23 rec., 238 yards, and 2 TD's. In the playoffs: 8/131/0, 8/117/1. Total: 16 rec., 248 yards, and 1 TD. That hardly seems like a guy that got beat up so badly that he could barely pick himself up off the ground. If he looks the same as he did last year, then that's fantastic news for Broncos fans and bad news for Pats fans.

I never said anything about Wes' speed, I was talking about his quickness, which isn't the same as it was.

I'm fully aware of what Wes' stats were. Some of that was because teams were doubling Hernandez and giving Wes more single looks, some of it because he is a very good player, as I said he was in one of the posts you quoted.

None of this changes the fact that he was beat to hell and could barely pick himself off the ground. Feel free to dig a little, I wasn't the only person to notice it. In fact, I thought it was pretty much a consensus acknowledgement. :confused2:

FWIW, I've watched about half of the Denver games so far and have rarely seen Wes get doubled.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Why this logic can't be applied to Bill Belichick, and some of the personnel moves he's made, I honestly have no idea.

EDIT: And yes, I agree. Chung couldn't cover a one-legged prostitute.

It can be, IMO, provided that it's obvious that he's making a mistake even as the move is being made. For example, cutting Meriweather and Sanders to go into the season with a safety rotation of Chung, Ihedigbo, Barrett and Sergio Brown was nearly as ridiculous a move.

Even then, it's a fair amount more defensible, because at least in that case Belichick was gambling on an unknown. Gambling on an unknown and coming up short isn't nearly as bad as gambling on a known quantity's ability to do what he's proven himself incapable of doing.

Same with the WR corps this year, as I see it. Gambling on Amendola and a bunch of rookies... it may not have been the best strategy, but I can at least understand the rationale. And the growing pains that we're experiencing now is part of that rationale. It's a gamble whether you go with Welker (33, has taken more hits over the past 5 years than any other WR probably, showed some signs of decline last year) or Amendola (none of those things, but checkered injury history).

Even if you disagree with the move, you can still understand it to some extent. With Kelly, though, there's really no defensible position for him to be coming from. He basically said "You know what? **** it - I'm going to take a guy who has consistently demonstrated himself to be incompetent in coverage in the NFL, and make him a prized free agent acquisition and my week 1 starter at free safety". It just isn't justifiable from any possible perspective.

 

[BradyFTW!]

for me James Ihedigbo starting for the ravens is even worst the ravens have a good front office and are known for good defense yet they are starting Ihedigbo lol

Yeah, that's pretty terrible too, but at at least they don't seem to expect him to cover a lot. He's taking over Pollard's old role at SS, and Pollard couldn't cover much either.

I'm still kinda surprised that Elam didn't beat him out, though, because Ihedigbo is pretty bad. I hated Elam as a prospect going into the draft, and was pretty much praying that the Pats wouldn't take him, for reasons that I pretty much summed up by calling him Chung 2.0. But even Chung 2.0 should be able to beat out Ihedigbo.

EDIT:... just saw that Elam was promoted to starting FS for the Ravens earlier this week. This is going to be fun.