Has Tim Tebow earned a roster spot on the Patriots?

[fnordcircle]

I'm not surprised either Kontradiction. Can a mod please lock this thread. I'm very disappointed at my fellow pats fans. Wow. Also nothing good is coming to come out from this thread.

You'd have to lock this thread and make mentioning Tebow a bannable offense or else this conversation will spill over to other threads like it did with the Mallett one. Which is why moderation is rarely the answer.

 

[mgteich]

The good is that this thread has greatly restricted the discussion of Tebow to this and other named Tebow threads.

I'm not surprised either Kontradiction. Can a mod please lock this thread. I'm very disappointed at my fellow pats fans. Wow. Also nothing good is coming to come out from this thread.

 

[Afam]

You'd have to lock this thread and make mentioning Tebow a bannable offense or else this conversation will spill over to other threads like it did with the Mallett one. Which is why moderation is rarely the answer.

I agree. I started to notice that.

 

[Demosthenes]

I'm not surprised either Kontradiction. Can a mod please lock this thread. I'm very disappointed at my fellow pats fans. Wow. Also nothing good is coming to come out from this thread.

Thing is, we really aren't discussing religion itself, rather, Tebow (and others) display of their religion. It's tangential for the most part.

If it devolved into debating specific aspects of belief systems, then perhaps that discussion should be squashed or moved to a more suitable forum.

 

[Suddyfan]

Amen. When Tebow was signed there were concerns that people would be joining simply to genuflect...

The Onslought of Tebow Only Fans (TOF)

I think the case could be made that some have come to crucify him.

On the day that Suddyfan posted his first message saying he joined to follow Sudfeld, he posted four messages criticizing Tim Tebow. Of his 71 posts to date, 10 mention Suddy or TEs and 47 criticize Tebow. And then there is this...

#12: Re: What are your religious beliefs?
Happy atheist. Religion makes no sense to me... never has.

Because the Suddy threads are non existent and this thread runs from train wreck to mildly funny. I'm offering opinions like everyone else. Nothing more and nothing less. I don't care if tebow plays or doesn't play. But I will argue when people are out and out lying, or otherwise being a knucklehead.

 

[Demosthenes]

Because the Suddy threads are non existent and this thread runs from train wreck to mildly funny. I'm offering opinions like everyone else. Nothing more and nothing less. I don't care if tebow plays or doesn't play. But I will argue when people are out and out lying, or otherwise being a knucklehead.

FWIW, I don't have a problem with the "numbers" or the posting ratio. It happens in Tebow discussion. You might make a statement, two or three people take issue with it and out of courtesy, you reply to them defending your statement or explaining it. Yet others might chime in to those replies and before you know it, you are carrying on 8 conversations and generating a decent volume of posts.

That's what happens with "controversial" or "polarizing" subjects


Now, if you had 1 post about Suddy and 60 about Tebow, that might be different

 

[TheGridironGeek]

I doubt that.




It is a passing league. There is really nothing to question here. You can't question what is fact.




The Patriots and Lions exposed Tebow's read option and the Pats held their own against the 49ers and Seahawks version of the offense. Mike Tomlin said that offense will be figured out. Until proven wrong, no reason to doubt him. The talk not too long ago was how the wildcat offense would revolutionize the NFL. How did that turn out?

The difference of course between Tim Tebow and those other running QBs is those guys can run AND throw. So those guys DO fit in a passing league.

Tebow can only do one of those things well. Then again if you were to compare Tim's running ability with some of the good running QBs in the NFL today like Kaep/Wilson/RG3/Newton, Tim would be a lot closer to the bottom of the list than the top....

If a player touches the ball on EVERY play and gains at least 4+ yards a pop, he'd probably have well over 5000 total yards on the season. That's a whole offense all by himself and more than any QB would likely pass for. Pretty valuable.

When you say "it's a passing league" and it's a FACT, what you really mean is "it's a faith." It's an arbitrary statement that means nothing. A run-heavy team was in the Super Bowl last year. Things aren't true just because everyone repeats them.

Tebow's pure running ability is not on par with Eric ****erson. But he has a knack for making the option offense work. Ball-handling and decision making and power. I'm sure I triggered that part of your brain that shuts itself off with that statement, so I'll stop talking about it.

The read-option will not be "figured out" because it's a numerical advantage. 11 or 11, or 11 on 10 considering you don't block the DE. I think it will prove to be more deadly in the pros than in college over the long haul, because the best tactic vs. the read-O in college is Nick Saban's "shuffle" technique where the DE's sit down and hold position. The weakness of that defense is that it slows down your pass rush, and NFL teams are learning to take advantage when teams try that.

I've noticed that nobody who ever says "they'll figure it out" ever even submits an idea as to HOW.

I think we have arrived at the crux of the argument. If you can figure out how to make 11 a smaller number than 10, then yes, the NFL is a passing league. Don't worry, you don't actually have to make it happen, just tell me you're right regardless and go on about your business. It's not like math or physics need to come into this.

 

[Awesomo 3000]

I don't care if tebow plays or doesn't play.

You're supposed to start sentences like this one with the word "Honestly,". That way, we can know for certain that you are not lying, and you really do post consistently, about things you don't care about.

Me... I care a great deal about the evolution of Josh McDaniels' e-p offensive system, and that's why I post about Tebow all the time. Honestly, I don't really care if he plays, or doesn't play.

 

[sb1]

If a player touches the ball on EVERY play and gains at least 4+ yards a pop, he'd probably have well over 5000 total yards on the season. That's a whole offense all by himself and more than any QB would likely pass for. Pretty valuable.

I won't argue with that except that not even Adrian Peterson would fall into that category so you're really talking about a hypothetical and not anything realistic.

When you say "it's a passing league" and it's a FACT, what you really mean is "it's a faith." It's an arbitrary statement that means nothing. A run-heavy team was in the Super Bowl last year. Things aren't true just because everyone repeats them.

When I see passing records falling almost every year, and when I see the likes of Matthew Stafford throw for 5000+ yards, and when I see rules that are put in place to favor passing, rules which are doing exactly what they were intended to do... then yes... it is a fact that it's a passing league. It may not always be so, but it certainly is right now.

If you choose not to see it that way, that is your opinion. But your opinion doesn't make it so.

Tebow's pure running ability is not on par with Eric ****erson.

****erson...lol.

Tebow is inferior as a runner to all those QB's I mentioned previously. That's not to say he's a bad runner but I bet those QB's could do a hell of a lot better than 3.2 YPC last year running from wildcat.

Saying Tebow is one of the greatest runners in football is wishful thinking and nothing more.

But he has a knack for making the option offense work. Ball-handling and decision making and power. I'm sure I triggered that part of your brain that shuts itself off with that statement, so I'll stop talking about it.

No need for the feeble limp wristed insults... I am speaking in nothing but fact.

The read-option will not be "figured out" because it's a numerical advantage.

Yup, easy for you to say. I guess that is why you are a coach in the NFL and your football knowledge is superior to the likes of Tomlin, Belichick, Harbaugh et al. Oh wait...

It will be figured out this year either by a scheme or once those Qbs start getting hurt. Or it could be both. Someone will drill the running QB, he won't get up, and that noise will be put to bed. Just like the wildcat was.

Book it.

 

[manxman2601]

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It will be figured out this year either by a scheme or once those Qbs start getting hurt. Or it could be both. Someone will drill the running QB, he won't get up, and that noise will be put to bed. Just like the wildcat was.

Book it.

I'm no X's and O's guy but here's something I don't understand and it's meant as a genuine question and not as sarcasm. If the read option is so easy to shut down as you and others have suggested, why has it still not been shut down in CFB? Certainly there are occasions where it has, Alabama/LSU Nat. Championship springs to mind but the read option certainly continues to prosper in CFB.

 

[Demosthenes]

I won't argue with that except that not even Adrian Peterson would fall into that category so you're really talking about a hypothetical and not anything realistic.




When I see passing records falling almost every year, and when I see the likes of Matthew Stafford throw for 5000+ yards, and when I see rules that are put in place to favor passing, rules which are doing exactly what they were intended to do... then yes... it is a fact that it's a passing league. It may not always be so, but it certainly is right now.

If you choose not to see it that way, that is your opinion. But your opinion doesn't make it so.




****erson...lol.

Tebow is inferior as a runner to all those QB's I mentioned previously. That's not to say he's a bad runner but I bet those QB's could do a hell of a lot better than 3.2 YPC last year running from wildcat.

Saying Tebow is one of the greatest runners in football is wishful thinking and nothing more.



No need for the feeble limp wristed insults... I am speaking in nothing but fact.



Yup, easy for you to say. I guess that is why you are a coach in the NFL and your football knowledge is superior to the likes of Tomlin, Belichick, Harbaugh et al. Oh wait...

It will be figured out this year either by a scheme or once those Qbs start getting hurt. Or it could be both. Someone will drill the running QB, he won't get up, and that noise will be put to bed. Just like the wildcat was.

Book it.

I remember hearing back in 2011 when Tebow first started winning that "teams would figure it out". Tebow kept on winning. You want to bring up Mike Tomlin ? Last I recall, Denver and Tebow beat him in the playoffs. Guess he hadn't figured out how to stop the Option by that point ? Maybe he learned later?

2012 rolled around and RG3, Kaep, Newton and Russell were all out there running the R/O and teams still hadn't figured it out.

Just how many years do you think it's going to take ?

 

[KG5]

I remember hearing back in 2011 when Tebow first started winning that "teams would figure it out". Tebow kept on winning.

Tebow won one of his last four games, including 0-3 when a win was needed to get into the playoffs.

 

[Kontradiction]

Patriots worked out six players today... two of them quarterbacks.

 

[Demosthenes]

Tebow won one of his last four games, including 0-3 when a win was needed to get into the playoffs.

I seem to recall Eli having a 1-5 stretch that very season with the Giants. Was it that NFL teams had "figured out" how to stop the forward pass, single back and I formation sets ?

 

[KG5]

I seem to recall Eli having a 1-5 stretch that very season with the Giants. Was it that NFL teams had "figured out" how to stop the forward pass, single back and I formation sets ?

You're changing your point from "kept on winning" to something different.

 

[eagle eye]

I don't believe that Tebow has earned a roster spot, its been pretty much spelled out for us with his no show in the most important preseason game.

I've been posting less and less on this board because of the haters. Its been getting worse and worse for quite a while but it reached an all-time low after Tebow signed. Its as bad now as a well known Jets board.

The people on this board who bring their personal hate of religion into this just sicken me. I'm not in any way a believer in god/religion but I hate those who hate, I don't like people who force their beliefs down your throat whether they be pro or anti religion.

To all you haters, please move off somewhere else. This used to be one of the most intelligent sites to read and discuss football. You are drowning all the good stuff with your negativity.

 

[Demosthenes]

You're changing your point from "kept on winning" to something different.

no, not when you think about it. The argument was that once teams got some tape on Tebow and the Read Option, they'd figure it out and put a stop to it.

Teams had plenty of tape from Tebow's first couple of games, yet Denver continued to win. Even the Pats had trouble with it in the first game against Denver. The Steelers definitely had trouble with it in the playoffs.

Fact is, teams have had since 2011 and perhaps even 2010 to figure out how to stop the R/O and yet the Packers got burned hard by it in the playoffs last year.

People keep saying "Once NFL teams get some tape!". Well, last I checked, NFL teams have had decades of tape on the Zone stretch, yet the Texans still have a ton of success with it. NFL teams have had multiple decades to learn to defend against the I formation, yet San Fran has lots of success with it. Teams have had 40 years of tape on the Forward Pass, yet teams have lots of success with it.

So why is it that people presume that once NFL teams "get some tape" on the R/O, that they will be able to stop it ?

 

[KG5]

When I really think about it, your original statement was that Tebow kept winning. He didn't keep winning. In fact, he went 0-3 down the stretch when they needed a win including losing 7-3 to a Kyle Orton-quarterbacked Chiefs team.

As far as the read-option having sustainability, that's a different point. I have no idea whether it can succeed in the NFL long term or not, but the quarterbacks that are capable of running it like Newton or Kaepernick, are considerably more talented than Tebow at running and throwing the ball.

 

[Awesomo 3000]

Patriots worked out six players today... two of them quarterbacks.

I would have to laugh hysterically, in my chair, for a few minutes, if BB cuts Tebow, then signs somebody else to be QB#3. It would be pretty entertaining, for a few days, watching certain posters trying to drum up the same "righteous indignation" against having a 3rd qb on the roster, who's name isn't "Tebow".

If that happens, I may just have to start a thread/poll asking what this new qb has done to "earn" his roster spot

People are free to dislike Tebow all they want, of course, but I do have to wonder how long many of them could pretend to be outraged, if it was any other 3rd qb.

 

[Suddyfan]

FWIW, I don't have a problem with the "numbers" or the posting ratio. It happens in Tebow discussion. You might make a statement, two or three people take issue with it and out of courtesy, you reply to them defending your statement or explaining it. Yet others might chime in to those replies and before you know it, you are carrying on 8 conversations and generating a decent volume of posts.

That's what happens with "controversial" or "polarizing" subjects


Now, if you had 1 post about Suddy and 60 about Tebow, that might be different

Thanks! I'm really here for Suddy but TEbiw argument is just too awesome to not poke my nose in! Been honest since I joined. And yes I'm an atheist but my mom, sister and brother are somewhat regular attenders of church. I don't have a single ounce of hate for any religion. It's just something I don't happen to believe in.