Has Tim Tebow earned a roster spot on the Patriots?

[JackBauer]

Why? Is he irreplaceable on special teams?

Because that would imply Bolden is one of the team's top STers, which would indicate a certain level of utility he brings to the team.

Tebow, OTOH, offers little value as a backup QB and no value on STs.

 

[Awesomo 3000]

Either you don't understand what a loaded question is, or you didn't understand what I was saying. No offense. A loaded question is one that doesn't have a right answer. The question in the thread title, and what the thread is centered around, is not a loaded question. The question asked in the O.P. and highlighted by manx earlier in the thread is.

I showed in post #302 why it's a type of gotcha question, so I'm not gonna get into that too much more. The title question could lead into discussion or disagreement, if it was reasonable folk talking. Unfortunately, the op, and people like him, are only interested in using it as a club to smack "Tebowites" over the head with.

I don't see how it wasn't an either/or issue here. Brown's activity in practice meant, supposedly, that others at a safety position flush with bodies became expendable. Further, he was directly competing with both of those guys. But I digress as it was simply an example of practice activity being weighed too heavily as Brown continued to suck into the regular season and was cut one year later.

Positional battles are tricky, and weighing out benefits of vet/youth, known commodity vs project, and other factors aren't very simple decisions to make.
What I was trying to say is that it's not only a matter of 1 vs 1 player comparison. If you have a logjam at safety, maybe you could keep an extra one, especially if some are good for special teams. The bottom end of any teams roster is where you put extra depth, st'ers, or project/tweener players you're keeping around for future payoff.

Well, the common argument seems to be Tebow vs. Dowling...

That's one way to look at it.

Absolutely. Everything needs to be taken into account. The failure in logic on both sides seems to be one side weighing preseason play more than practice and one side weighing practice more than preseason play. Both sides should be given due consideration.

It's not about one or the other here, either. Practice and Preseason games are a couple things to look at. But with a player like Tebow, I feel that there are plenty more question marks: Do BB and McD think that they can use him, or salvage him as a project player? Do they intend to use him during the season in ways we haven't seen yet? Do they want him to transition to a different position eventually? There's plenty more unknowns surrounding Tebow and the Pats, but these kinds of questions are just as relevant as practice or preseason game performance. The OP is trying to funnel the "discussion" into an area where preseason games are the only things we can factor in.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Again, if it's based on playing time and practice reports alone, he should be cut. The practice reports are mixed and he's looked anywhere from inconsistent to absolutely brutal. But if it's to give the defense looks against the read option (which neither Brady nor Mallett can run), then I could see him getting a spot.

That's actually logical, however I believe they need to keep Edelman and he can fill that role as he has done for them in the past. I really believe they need every one of these roster spots, and while I think Tebow is a waste of the effort I would be fine with him being on the practice squad, but think using a spot on the 53 is a really bad idea.

 

[Oinko]

Since when have BB's public pronouncements regarding his players been indicative of anything at all?

What matters is what BB does, his actions. Such as keeping or cutting Tebow -- that will be indicative of where he stands.

Unless he keeps him. Then we'll need to pour over his comments to ferret out the hidden agenda. Because poor Timmy "deserved" it.

 

[Huckleberry1]

For as long as I can remember training camp and the pre-season games have been considered the opportunity for players to demonstrate that they deserve a spot on a roster, for some reason that long standing premise is unfair to Tim Tebow and should not be applied to him. Asking whether he has actually earned a spot is a "gotcha" question because that isn't fair to him, apparently he doesn't have to win a job but every other player in the league does.

 

[manxman2601]

You were expecting him to say that the kid is an absolute disaster and an @$$hole to boot?

No, just pointing out to all those who think he's a loser that there are more important decision makers in this process.

Actually the truth is, I do read that as a bit of a death knell for Tebow because BB is rarely that effusive about a player - non-committal is the default BB position.

 

[fnordcircle]

For as long as I can remember training camp and the pre-season games have been considered the opportunity for players to demonstrate that they deserve a spot on a roster, for some reason that long standing premise is unfair to Tim Tebow

Who is making this argument? Who are you debating with? Who is saying 'if the team evaluates Tebow based on his on the field performance in camp and preseason that is unfair to Tebow'?

You're an insane person.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Because that would imply Bolden is one of the team's top STers, which would indicate a certain level of utility he brings to the team.

Tebow, OTOH, offers little value as a backup QB and no value on STs.

Pretty much the entire discussion with Belichick yesterday on WEEI centered on the importance of ST's, the number of ST squads, and the number of roles and squads the ST guys can play, as an injury to one guy could mean having to fill as many as 6 ST spots-acccording to Belichick, so ST roles are integral to the final decisions on roster spots, a point mgteich has been hammering home for years.

 

[manxman2601]

Because that would imply Bolden is one of the team's top STers, which would indicate a certain level of utility he brings to the team.

Tebow, OTOH, offers little value as a backup QB and no value on STs.

It implies he's one of the top STers on the team right now. It doesn't imply he's irreplaceable. Look if Bolden's ST play locks up a roster spot for him then that's great but as a RB he's nothing special.

 

[Huckleberry1]

It implies he's one of the top STers on the team right now. It doesn't imply he's irreplaceable. Look if Bolden's ST play locks up a roster spot for him then that's great but as a RB he's nothing special.

So Branden Bolden has to actually play well enough to win a roster spot?

Interesting concept, never heard of that before.

 

[Suddyfan]

He's made the playoffs and has a winning record as a starting qb in the NFL plus he can do other things for the team like play Tight End, Fullback and Special Teams.

Punt protector yes. But when has he ever played TE or FB. You realize he isn't trained in either of those two roles right? You think because he is athletic for a QB it somehow translates into the TE and FB position?

Let me tell you. It doesn't. Run tebows combine numbers against QB only he looks good. Run them against TE and FB and he looks sub par.

 

[Afam]

Who is making this argument? Who are you debating with? Who is saying 'if the team evaluates Tebow based on his on the field performance in camp and preseason that is unfair to Tebow'?

You're an insane person.

The more correct word would be obsessed. Some people just can't give tebow the benefit of the doubt to improve. Seriously mods should consider locking this thread and any tebow threads. All is being repeated is the same thing. Repeat, rinse repeat.

 

[manxman2601]

So Branden Bolden has to actually play well enough to win a roster spot?

Interesting concept, never heard of that before.

Gronk hasn't been very productive this pre-season. Nor has Mark Harrison or Armond Armstead. Do you think they should be cut or that maybe other factors come in to building a roster?

 

[manxman2601]

The more correct word would be obsessed. Some people just can't give tebow the benefit of the doubt to improve. Seriously mods should consider locking this thread and any tebow threads. All is being repeated is the same thing. Repeat, rinse repeat.

Don't you dare suggest such a thing - it's these threads that are keeping this forum interesting.

 

[Kontradiction]

I showed in post #302 why it's a type of gotcha question, so I'm not gonna get into that too much more. The title question could lead into discussion or disagreement, if it was reasonable folk talking. Unfortunately, the op, and people like him, are only interested in using it as a club to smack "Tebowites" over the head with.

Not in regard to the thread title. The thread title is fine. Your premise here seems to be built around the notion Ivan provided that the only way Tebow makes the team is if the team feels bad for him in some way, which is insane. But the question of whether or not he's earned a spot on the 53 is a very valid one. If it wasn't, this thread wouldn't be nearing 500 posts.

Positional battles are tricky, and weighing out benefits of vet/youth, known commodity vs project, and other factors aren't very simple decisions to make.
What I was trying to say is that it's not only a matter of 1 vs 1 player comparison. If you have a logjam at safety, maybe you could keep an extra one, especially if some are good for special teams. The bottom end of any teams roster is where you put extra depth, st'ers, or project/tweener players you're keeping around for future payoff.

The thing is that the team didn't seem to be looking at Brown as a bottom of the roster player. They seemed to think that he did enough to earn a starting rotation at safety, which is why Meriweather was sent packing then, a little later, Sanders. All because Brown had supposedly looked phenomenal in practice and was a hard worker. That's great and all, but Brown sucked. He looked bad in the preseason and he looked bad when the games counted as well. The starting safety rotation quickly because Chung and Ihedigbo, then McCourty and Ihedigbo in the playoffs. Like I said, you can't weigh practice performance too heavily and, even then, the reports on Tebow's practice performance have been mixed at best.

It's not about one or the other here, either. Practice and Preseason games are a couple things to look at. But with a player like Tebow, I feel that there are plenty more question marks: Do BB and McD think that they can use him, or salvage him as a project player? Do they intend to use him during the season in ways we haven't seen yet?

I can't think of a single project that they'd be using him for outside of a read option practice QB. Perhaps you have more examples?

Do they want him to transition to a different position eventually? There's plenty more unknowns surrounding Tebow and the Pats, but these kinds of questions are just as relevant as practice or preseason game performance. The OP is trying to funnel the "discussion" into an area where preseason games are the only things we can factor in.

The Pats made it pretty clear at the time of the acquisition that they only plan on using him as a quarterback. Of course, that doesn't mean much from the Master of Deception, but I haven't seen anything indicate that they're moving him elsewhere. He's taken reps in practice and the preseason as a quarterback only. Plus, I've watched the kid since Nease. That's really all he is. He's athletic, but he's not used to taking the kind of punishment that a TE endures, he's a weaker blocker based on his time as a punt protector with the Jets, and the Pats don't typically carry a fullback (nor do they make him a featured part of the offense). This all indicates that Tebow is staying as a quarterback if he survives the final round of cuts.

No, just pointing out to all those who think he's a loser that there are more important decision makers in this process.

Actually the truth is, I do read that as a bit of a death knell for Tebow because BB is rarely that effusive about a player - non-committal is the default BB position.

That's exactly what I thought when I read it.

 

[Huckleberry1]

The more correct word would be obsessed. Some people just can't give tebow the benefit of the doubt to improve. Seriously mods should consider locking this thread and any tebow threads. All is being repeated is the same thing. Repeat, rinse repeat.

Actually i dropped out of it and the Tebowites kept it going all night and well into this morning. As for Tebow I spent no time discussing him the past 4-6 years, only the past few weeks, when it becaqme clear he doesn't belong on this team. His cult on the other hand has been following him from team to team and board to board for years, yet I am the one who is "obsessed" with him. You really need a dictionary to explain what "obsessed" means, because following Timmy from team to team for years and years and arguing with the respective fans of those teams really fits it perfectly.

 

[PatsDeb]

Good God I hope BB gets on with it and cuts Tebow so this thread can be closed.

 

[manxman2601]

Actually i dropped out of it and the Tebowites kept it going all night and well into this morning. As for Tebow I spent no time discussing him the past 4-6 years, only the past few weeks, when it becaqme clear he doesn't belong on this team. His cult on the other hand has been following him from team to team and board to board for years, yet I am the one who is "obsessed" with him. You really need a dictionary to explain what "obsessed" means, because following Timmy from team to team for years and years and arguing with the respective fans of those teams really fits it perfectly.

Stop calling them a cult. It's a ridiculous ad hominem. They like Tebow - so what!

 

[manxman2601]

Good God I hope BB gets on with it and cuts Tebow so this thread can be closed.

Thanks for coming in and making such a dumb contribution.

 

[Kontradiction]

Gronk hasn't been very productive this pre-season. Nor has Mark Harrison or Armond Armstead. Do you think they should be cut or that maybe other factors come in to building a roster?

You can do better here, Manx. Gronk is probably the best (or 1b) TE in the NFL when healthy. Of course he's going to lock up a roster spot from the tub. Harrison may not survive the final cuts and Armstead was a highly touted signing that is dealing with an illness. Both can be viewed as "injured". On the other hand, Tebow has been healthy. So the comparison is pretty far off, to say the least.