Who Will Be Our Weakest Game 1 Starters?

[everlong]

No doubt whoever is the second safety.

Our #1 and #2 TE will be weaker than the two that started the season last year. How much weaker may not matter until Atlanta and then hopefully the #1 is back and at least 80% of himself.

 

[JackBauer]

CB Everyone is back. Are we really counting on Ryan and Dowling as additional depth?

Yes. I think it makes sense based on draft position/training camp/preseason to count on Ryan as at least serviceable depth until it is demonstrated otherwise.

 

[Kontradiction]

Yes. I think it makes sense based on draft position/training camp/preseason to count on Ryan as at least serviceable depth until it is demonstrated otherwise.

Maybe in the slot. But if he's thrown to the outside, his weaknesses as a CB are magnified.

 

[Nunchucks]

You guys sure do hate on Gregory, I do not think he is as bad as you project him to be.

 

[JackBauer]

This is a pretty good breakdown, and a great example why the depth is weak almost all over the place except for the LB corps (where Fletcher should supply a boost, particularly in coverage and Collins should at the very least be an upgrade over Hightower in coverage as well).

Provided that Dennard stays out of the pokey, I think we're OK at CB and LB.

DE is pretty meh, but there are a couple guys who could step up and contribute (hopefully).

DT is bad. Forston still has the potential to be a serviceable backup and we all hope Armstead can contribute when he gets off PUP.

S is...well, let's just pray that Harmon "gets it" ASAP.

 

[JackBauer]

Maybe in the slot. But if he's thrown to the outside, his weaknesses as a CB are magnified.

He's looked OK on the outside so far, though the sample size is small. Either way, if Talib/Dennard goes down, that pushes Arrington outside and Ryan into the slot (I assume).

I'm not as worried about the prospect of Arrington on the outside as I have been in years past, because if the early returns from Jones/Kelly/Ninkovich are legit, I think we'll finally - FINALLY - have a decent (at worst) pass rush.

 

[JackBauer]

You guys sure do hate on Gregory, I do not think he is as bad as you project him to be.

He's not terrible but he's not a starting-caliber player.

 

[Nunchucks]

He's not terrible but he's not a starting-caliber player.

What does "starting caliber" mean? How many starting caliber safeties are in the league?

 

[patsinthesnow]

I'm shocked noones listed our LDE.

Looks like Ninko has silenced some people, hope he keeps it up.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm shocked noones listed our LDE.

Looks like Ninko has silenced some people, hope he keeps it up.

Best used as a rotational guy doesn't mean weakest Week 1 starter.

 

[jmt57]

I agree with several others that the weakest starter is going to be whomever it is at safety opposite Devin McCourty.


At one point this off season I recall thinking that the Pats had upgraded that unit to the best it had been in a few years. As of this moment I cannot think of what it was that caused me to think that way; it is still the weakest link on the team.


In terms of other positions that have been nominated, I'll say that until we hear news ruling them out Dennard is still a starting CB and Connolly (or possibly even Cannon) is still the starting RG; Arrington/Ryan and Svitek are not starters. At TE I would respond that while Sudfeld is an unknown because he is a rookie, I have more faith in his abilities than I do with any of the safeties not named McCourty.

 

[JackBauer]

What does "starting caliber" mean? How many starting caliber safeties are in the league?

I suppose there's no objective definition but to me a starting caliber means a player who is competent enough to start at a position and not be a liability. That definition would not apply to Gregory.

That being said, stacked defenses can afford to have/cover up deficiencies at certain positions - e.g. Donte Whitner on last year's 49ers defense.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Best used as a rotational guy doesn't mean weakest Week 1 starter.

I'm sorry, I just disagree. He defends the run well, rushes the passer effectively, why is he best as a rotational guy?

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm sorry, I just disagree. He defends the run well, rushes the passer effectively, why is he best as a rotational guy?

In studying Ninkovich last year for a thread made earlier in the offseason, it was often pointed out by multiple people that on a good amount of his sacks, he benefited from Jones flushing the QB out of the pocket and in his direction. But, realistically, do you not think that Ninkovich could stand to be upgraded?

 

[JackBauer]

I'm shocked noones listed our LDE.

Looks like Ninko has silenced some people, hope he keeps it up.

I've seen consistent improvement from Ninko year over year, and his dominance against the Lions suggests this trend could continue. It wouldn't surprise me if he turns in his best performance this upcoming season.

 

[manxman2601]

In studying Ninkovich last year for a thread made earlier in the offseason, it was often pointed out by multiple people that on a good amount of his sacks, he benefited from Jones flushing the QB out of the pocket and in his direction. But, realistically, do you not think that Ninkovich could stand to be upgraded?

What would need to be invested to upgrade Ninkovich is a question that comes to mind. And that's a resource (draft pick, FA money) that won't be spent elsewhere. I'm all for upgrading Ninkovich, but he's far from our biggest hole right now.

 

[Kontradiction]

What would need to be invested to upgrade Ninkovich is a question that comes to mind. And that's a resource (draft pick, FA money) that won't be spent elsewhere. I'm all for upgrading Ninkovich, but he's far from our biggest hole right now.

Absolutely. That's what I said when I first responded to patsinthesnow.

 

[patsinthesnow]

In studying Ninkovich last year for a thread made earlier in the offseason, it was often pointed out by multiple people that on a good amount of his sacks, he benefited from Jones flushing the QB out of the pocket and in his direction. But, realistically, do you not think that Ninkovich could stand to be upgraded?

That's Andy's evaluation. I broke down every play of the AFCCG, his two sacks weren't flush outs, he generated pressure, and alot of the time he dropped into coverage.

We'll see what happens with Ninkovich's progression this season. BB clearly has confidence in Ninkovich as a starter, only drafting a 7th round prospect and spending peanuts on DE in free agency.

 

[Kontradiction]

That's Andy's evaluation. I broke down every play of the AFCCG, his two sacks weren't flush outs, he generated pressure, and alot of the time he dropped into coverage.

He was also going head up against the weakest part of the Ravens' OL one on one. It's good that he got two sacks, but where was he the rest of the game? By the way, I have Andy on ignore because he's still sore about what happened a couple of seasons ago and decides to try to take personal digs any time we've had a disagreement since. So I didn't see his evaluation, but it seems pretty clear that we saw the same things.

We'll see what happens with Ninkovich's progression this season. BB clearly has confidence in Ninkovich as a starter, only drafting a 7th round prospect and spending peanuts on DE in free agency.

I wasn't taking a dig at Ninkovich. He'll be the starter this season. That doesn't mean that he and the defense aren't best served if they're in a position to slide him in as a rotational guy in sub-packages.

 

[Deus Irae]

You guys sure do hate on Gregory, I do not think he is as bad as you project him to be.

He's overpriced and should be no higher than the S3/S4 (McCourty's backup). His play in San Diego showed that, which is why he was not brought back there. His play in NE showed that, which is at least part of why the Patriots have made so many safety additions. He'll probably make the team this year, because the 3 other added options (A. Wilson/T. Wilson/Harmon) haven't shown anything to make Gregory clearly disposable.

Next year, though, his base salary nearly doubles, making him wildly overpriced, and the team will/would realize significant cap savings by cutting him, so he'll probably be shown the door, unless the team keeps completely screwing up the position.