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Should the Patriots cut Tebow?

  • Cut Tebow

    Votes: 155 64.6%
  • Keep Tebow

    Votes: 85 35.4%

  • Total voters
    240
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that looks like an unproven supposition of ludicrous construction in response to KNOWN fact.

sorry...I'm not playing any of these weirdo if/then = aliens games...

I don't get what you mean at all.

Tom Brady is a great QB, but he's a tall, slow, relatively unathletic white man. If you don't watch prep or college football much, okay, but surely you've observed that fast, big, nimble runners at QB are necessary to run the option. All I am saying is that if you push a square peg into a round hole, expect bad results but don't blame the peg. No aliens involved.
 
Then you say F'em and point out that Tebow is hardly the first QB to drop a 0 QB rating in a game. It's been done over 160 times since 1960 with QBs having 7 or more attempts.

You know how sad it is that you had to research that just so you can use it somehow prop up tebow?

It's a zero man a zero! It was a bad game, whether you blame play calling, third stringers, the moon or Jesus. It's still a bad game. Truth is he has limited reps and he has to do better or his career is over.

He got no time tonight, Mallett was his same old big bag of Meh...but tebow never sniffed the field. He's the 3rd string qb. There's no surprise package where he comes in. Tom Brady isn't coming out of the game for tebow in any situation. So he needs to do something next week to get bb to say, he's worth a roster spot because if he does poorly again and gets cut... Well Tim's career in the nfl is most likely over.
 
This reminds me I noticed Ryan ripped Geno Smith in the media about a week ago and I started to wonder why is he so obsessed with Sanchez, I mean realistically when he gets fired it will be because of Sanchez.

I think Mark has compromising photos of Rex with some feet that aren't his wife's.

I think Sanchez is Wrecks' bird doggin' chum. Prob for Woody too. Maybe pics too but it started somewhere.
 
As SDI will vouch for I beat you to this terrible attempt at humor

Oh, sorry. I can't normally be bothered to read back a page so I just crap out my dumb post and watch nervously to see if my "Like" counter increments at all giving me just enough hope to continue my dreary existence.
 
Oh, sorry. I can't normally be bothered to read back a page so I just crap out my dumb post and watch nervously to see if my "Like" counter increments at all giving me just enough hope to continue my dreary existence.




Hang in there, buddy!
 
I don't get what you mean at all.

Tom Brady is a great QB, but he's a tall, slow, relatively unathletic white man. If you don't watch prep or college football much, okay, but surely you've observed that fast, big, nimble runners at QB are necessary to run the option. All I am saying is that if you push a square peg into a round hole, expect bad results but don't blame the peg. No aliens involved.

no..you don't "get" what I mean.

My first response was an OBSERVED FACT...OK? Understand so far?? It ACTUALLY happened last week the entire 2nd half.

YOUR response was a statement AS FACT of something that has not ever nor probably will ever occur. Tom Brady is a first ballot hall of fame quarterback and three time Super Bowl winner...a PROVEN NFL WINNER OF ALL TIME PROPORTIONS. You get THAT??? I can EASILY say that, even with his limited physical ability, Tom Brady WOULD run a read option for better numbers than ONE FOR SEVEN and a 0 QB rating just by MAKING THE PROPER ALL TIME DEFENSIVE FORMATION READS!!!!

Great, you are this tremendous college football guru...go back to Hump St. or whatever and play your what/if patty cake games....krist...it's like bugs come crawling out from the woodwork with you people whenever anyone points out a Timmy failing.
 
This thread=









 
There's nothing I said about Young or Tebow that is untrue.


And yes there is remote chance that Tim could turn into Steve Young. Just like there's a remote chance I win the Powerball. It could happen in theory but the odds are stacked so far against it makes it not worth contemplating the possibility.

SB1, you're missing the forest because of the trees again.

Let's go through it step by step. You made the following statement:


Tebow is not a good QB, he is not a developmental QB
-------
The other problem with the whole "Tebow should sit and learn to be a QB" thing is that you are talking about a 26 year old NFL vet on his 3rd team, not a 22 year old raw rookie that can be "taught". For point of reference, Tom Brady won his third Super Bowl ring when he was 26.

By the time Tebow is done "learning" he will be getting closer and closer to 30 and perhaps with his 4th team. Now there are definitely late bloomers (like Rich Gannon) but none of them had the fundamental issues with their game that Tim has.

Even the whole "development" thing has a best before date.



I replied saying "Steve Young says hello".


You yammered on and on a bit and said a number of things in various posts such as:

If Tebow was a raw 22 year old rookie I could see the point of him "sitting and learning" on this roster. Not a 26 year old that we hope, wish and pray for the 0.1% chance he becomes Steve Young.


After some more back and forth, I posted Young's stats while he was at Tampa. You countered with this post:


No need to get in a huff. I am looking at Young's game log in 86. 6 games over 200 yards out of 14, and 5 with a passer rating of 80+. That is more than reasonable for a kid playing on a horrible football team. And before you go there, it was a different era back then. Sure there were plenty of clunkers but also plenty of positives. I see he also rushed for 5.7 YPC. Hence, a guy who was learning and developing, not a 26 year old journeyman QB in an era that clearly favors passing who has major fundamental flaws in his passing game that are not getting better.

This shows that you weren't aware of Young's history, or that you had forgotten it. I say this because you called him a "kid playing on a horrible team" and contrasted that with a "26 year old journeyman QB".


I responded with the following post:

You talk about how Young was a guy learning and developing. I'm guessing that you are much younger than I am and you didn't actually watch Young play. Is that correct ?

Did you know that the 1986 season was actually Young's 4th year as a Pro Football player ? That in the very year you are looking at, 1986, Steve Young was 25 years old ? That in 1987 with San Fran, that was his 5th year as a Pro and that he was 26 during that season? Lastly, did you know that when he finally became the regular starter for the 49'ers, in Sept of 92 he was 30 years old and had his 31st birthday on game day of the 6th game of the season (against the Pats) ?

To recap, your basic position was that Tebow is a 26 year old journeyman QB in his 4th season in the NFL and that it's too late to develop him. Afterall, he would be 30 by the time he was the starter.

I said that Steve Young said hello.

You mistakenly thought that Steve Young was a young kid both when he played in Tampa and when he went to San Fran so you argued the point.

The facts of the matter are that Steve Young WAS on his third professional team when Bill Walsh took him in and developed him. Its also the case that he turned 26 less than half way through his first season developing in San Fran. Lastly, it most definitely is the case that he was about a month or so shy of his 31st birthday when he took over as the regular starter for San Fran.
 
You know how sad it is that you had to research that just so you can use it somehow prop up tebow?

It's a zero man a zero! It was a bad game, whether you blame play calling, third stringers, the moon or Jesus. It's still a bad game. Truth is he has limited reps and he has to do better or his career is over.

He got no time tonight, Mallett was his same old big bag of Meh...but tebow never sniffed the field. He's the 3rd string qb. There's no surprise package where he comes in. Tom Brady isn't coming out of the game for tebow in any situation. So he needs to do something next week to get bb to say, he's worth a roster spot because if he does poorly again and gets cut... Well Tim's career in the nfl is most likely over.

Yeah, it was a bad game. The part that is truly sad is that some people act like Tebow is the first QB to have ever had a game like that, which is what actually led to me looking it up.

As for what Tebow needs to do next week, that's up to Bill Belichick.
 
Having seen Young from the start, you make a fairly valid point, Demon...it's what happens from now going forward that has yet to be determined one way or the other...Tebow IS at a crucial point in his career, of this there is no argument. I firmly believe that Belichick and McD feel he has the skills to produce in this league.

I admit, I don't know what to think about next week or what it means if he does play or not..it all comes to a point in ten days, right?
 
1-4 in his last five. Please explain why?

Glad you asked. I spend so much time defending Tebow (and other players) from the "NFL player xyz SUUUUCKKS!" crowd that I rarely get to criticize him.

Tebow is inept in a traditional NFL playbook & struggles with short timing passes, and is a basically nervous player at this phase of his career. I think the constant crush of criticism and jeering affect him more than he lets on. And as a Bronco he played like a first-year starter.

Once they changed the playbook and made him comfortable he was often great. All those "terrible first 3 quarters" he supposedly had are largely a myth. He was consistently grinding out rushing yards and keeping the games close.

But the Broncos put in the read-option playbook on the fly, in mid-season. This was unprecedented. (Imagine if a power-run, play-action, Joe Gibbs-ish NFL team put the West Coast Offense in mid-season!) As Grantland.com recently pointed out, defenses adjusted to the simple/seat-of-the-pants option playbook the Broncos had put in. The 49ers Pistol it was not.

The defense, buoyed by the ground game and lack of TOs, was still basically inconsistent and the offense, already a mediocre group, suffered injuries. So when Tom Brady passed for 900 yards in the first loss of the 5 games in ?, Tebow couldn't keep up. He did make a game of it though.

Then he started turning the ball over. People forget that even the second KC game looked like a typical low-scoring Tebow win until he fumbled at an inopportune time in the 4th quarter. That was on Timmy. You can't win w/ a run-heavy strategy if you fumble.

The playoff games were a microcosm of the good/bad of Tebow. He gutted the Steelers with great option reads and long bombs, in fact, that game should never have gone to OT as the Broncos were screwed on the backward lateral/fumble by Big Rape.

But the Pats schemed brilliantly and blew out an inferior group of athletes at home. Tebow is no miracle man and will never be able to beat teams that can score at will. He also got hurt in the first half and had a terrible passing day, as pure option QBs sometimes do when outclassed.

A 12-year old kid I know pointed out something that nobody else did, the Pats had young LB's and DE's out of college who weren't confused or intimidated by the option play like the Steelers were. Like all other playbooks, the Spread-O has its strengths and weaknesses.

Tebow may go down in history as similar to the chess player Nimzowitsch, who changed the game forever but was surpassed by others who copied his style. But he is still the greatest Spread Option QB in history at this point, based on his record in college and professional football. He's a nervous, quirky, specialized QB but if any team has the guts to put him in, let him run the option, throw deep & otherwise do his thing, the ignorant aping laughter could be replaced by bitter crow-eating once again.
 
Having seen Young from the start, you make a fairly valid point, Demon...it's what happens from now going forward that has yet to be determined one way or the other...Tebow IS at a crucial point in his career, of this there is no argument. I firmly believe that Belichick and McD feel he has the skills to produce in this league.

I admit, I don't know what to think about next week or what it means if he does play or not..it all comes to a point in ten days, right?


I absolutely agree. (this is for the benefit of others) That one can draw a parallel between Tebow's career path to date and what happened with Steve Young DOES NOT MEAN that Tebow WILL turn out to be anything like Young.

What it does show is that one shouldn't rule out "developing" a QB just because he's in his 4th year as a pro and is 26. IF the coaches see something there that makes them think it's worth the time and effort, then it makes sense to take the risk if they choose to.

I don't know about the next week or 10 days either Joker. I don't know if they've seen enough already, if they want to see more in practice, or if they need to see more in a game.

Or maybe they've already seen enough and they've made the decision to let him go on final cut day.
 
Glad you asked. I spend so much time defending Tebow (and other players) from the "NFL player xyz SUUUUCKKS!" crowd that I rarely get to criticize him.

Tebow is inept in a traditional NFL playbook & struggles with short timing passes, and is a basically nervous player at this phase of his career. I think the constant crush of criticism and jeering affect him more than he lets on. And as a Bronco he played like a first-year starter.

Once they changed the playbook and made him comfortable he was often great. All those "terrible first 3 quarters" he supposedly had are largely a myth. He was consistently grinding out rushing yards and keeping the games close.

But the Broncos put in the read-option playbook on the fly, in mid-season. This was unprecedented. (Imagine if a power-run, play-action, Joe Gibbs-ish NFL team put the West Coast Offense in mid-season!) As Grantland.com recently pointed out, defenses adjusted to the simple/seat-of-the-pants option playbook the Broncos had put in. The 49ers Pistol it was not.

The defense, buoyed by the ground game and lack of TOs, was still basically inconsistent and the offense, already a mediocre group, suffered injuries. So when Tom Brady passed for 900 yards in the first loss of the 5 games in ?, Tebow couldn't keep up. He did make a game of it though.

Then he started turning the ball over. People forget that even the second KC game looked like a typical low-scoring Tebow win until he fumbled at an inopportune time in the 4th quarter. That was on Timmy. You can't win w/ a run-heavy strategy if you fumble.

The playoff games were a microcosm of the good/bad of Tebow. He gutted the Steelers with great option reads and long bombs, in fact, that game should never have gone to OT as the Broncos were screwed on the backward lateral/fumble by Big Rape.

But the Pats schemed brilliantly and blew out an inferior group of athletes at home. Tebow is no miracle man and will never be able to beat teams that can score at will. He also got hurt in the first half and had a terrible passing day, as pure option QBs sometimes do when outclassed.

A 12-year old kid I know pointed out something that nobody else did, the Pats had young LB's and DE's out of college who weren't confused or intimidated by the option play like the Steelers were. Like all other playbooks, the Spread-O has its strengths and weaknesses.

Tebow may go down in history as similar to the chess player Nimzowitsch, who changed the game forever but was surpassed by others who copied his style. But he is still the greatest Spread Option QB in history at this point, based on his record in college and professional football. He's a nervous, quirky, specialized QB but if any team has the guts to put him in, let him run the option, throw deep & otherwise do his thing, the ignorant aping laughter could be replaced by bitter crow-eating once again.

All very possible. Thus my assertion he's own the wrong team. The pats aren't built to run a spread of any kind whether its more like what tebow ran or the pistol like kap and others run. The 49ers, Seahawks, redskins and te eagles would be better fit. Plus tebow isn't beating out Kap, Wilson, rg3 or Vick meaning he could be 2nd string and still sit and try to get that throwing issue dealt with. 3rd string on the pats will do him no good.
 
All very possible. Thus my assertion he's own the wrong team. The pats aren't built to run a spread of any kind whether its more like what tebow ran or the pistol like kap and others run. The 49ers, Seahawks, redskins and te eagles would be better fit. Plus tebow isn't beating out Kap, Wilson, rg3 or Vick meaning he could be 2nd string and still sit and try to get that throwing issue dealt with. 3rd string on the pats will do him no good.

Of these four, Washington would seem to be the best place, IMO. I do not think RG3 will last 8 games this season. He's got heart but he takes hits that Kaep and Wilson avoid. Philly would be a terrible place for Tebow, as bad as the rathole in the Jersey swamp. I don't think Tebow wants to endure that kind of situation again unless he thinks Kelley's system is a fit for his skills.
 
I think he's a camp arm with the caveat he can run spread stuff during the season for the defense to practice against. Why do I believe this?

1. Tfb is never coming out for tebow in any situation at any part of any game at any time at any part of the field.
2. He has been behind Mallett (who is mediocre at best) since the day he got here and has done nothin to supplant him. Evidenced by his no time tonight.
3. It cost them nothing to see if he had anything to give so why not.
4. The pats face a few spread / pistol type offenses this year Brady ain't running it in practice and neither is Mallett. Hmmm who could we get for next to nothing to eat up pre season minutes then run scout team offense when we play a spread type team?

Tim tebow.

That's why he's here and that's why he's nothing more than a camp / scout team arm.
 
Of these four, Washington would seem to be the best place, IMO. I do not think RG3 will last 8 games this season. He's got heart but he takes hits that Kaep and Wilson avoid. Philly would be a terrible place for Tebow, as bad as the rathole in the Jersey swamp. I don't think Tebow wants to endure that kind of situation again unless he thinks Kelley's system is a fit for his skills.

You been watching cousins? Cuz tebow ain't beating him out either. But rg3 will get hurt promoting cousins to starter and tebow to number 2.
 
Glad you asked. I spend so much time defending Tebow (and other players) from the "NFL player xyz SUUUUCKKS!" crowd that I rarely get to criticize him.

Tebow is inept in a traditional NFL playbook & struggles with short timing passes, and is a basically nervous player at this phase of his career. I think the constant crush of criticism and jeering affect him more than he lets on. And as a Bronco he played like a first-year starter.

Once they changed the playbook and made him comfortable he was often great. All those "terrible first 3 quarters" he supposedly had are largely a myth. He was consistently grinding out rushing yards and keeping the games close.

But the Broncos put in the read-option playbook on the fly, in mid-season. This was unprecedented. (Imagine if a power-run, play-action, Joe Gibbs-ish NFL team put the West Coast Offense in mid-season!) As Grantland.com recently pointed out, defenses adjusted to the simple/seat-of-the-pants option playbook the Broncos had put in. The 49ers Pistol it was not.

The defense, buoyed by the ground game and lack of TOs, was still basically inconsistent and the offense, already a mediocre group, suffered injuries. So when Tom Brady passed for 900 yards in the first loss of the 5 games in ?, Tebow couldn't keep up. He did make a game of it though.

Then he started turning the ball over. People forget that even the second KC game looked like a typical low-scoring Tebow win until he fumbled at an inopportune time in the 4th quarter. That was on Timmy. You can't win w/ a run-heavy strategy if you fumble.

The playoff games were a microcosm of the good/bad of Tebow. He gutted the Steelers with great option reads and long bombs, in fact, that game should never have gone to OT as the Broncos were screwed on the backward lateral/fumble by Big Rape.

But the Pats schemed brilliantly and blew out an inferior group of athletes at home. Tebow is no miracle man and will never be able to beat teams that can score at will. He also got hurt in the first half and had a terrible passing day, as pure option QBs sometimes do when outclassed.

A 12-year old kid I know pointed out something that nobody else did, the Pats had young LB's and DE's out of college who weren't confused or intimidated by the option play like the Steelers were. Like all other playbooks, the Spread-O has its strengths and weaknesses.

Tebow may go down in history as similar to the chess player Nimzowitsch, who changed the game forever but was surpassed by others who copied his style. But he is still the greatest Spread Option QB in history at this point, based on his record in college and professional football. He's a nervous, quirky, specialized QB but if any team has the guts to put him in, let him run the option, throw deep & otherwise do his thing, the ignorant aping laughter could be replaced by bitter crow-eating once again.

Nice write up. I agree with most of it, but would take issue with a few things. This one especially:

All those "terrible first 3 quarters" he supposedly had are largely a myth. He was consistently grinding out rushing yards and keeping the games close.

That's not a myth. The first 3 quarters of most games absolutely sucked, and Tebow didn't do well in them. Then again, in those 3 quarters, Denver mostly ran a conservative "traditional" offense with some Option thrown in. Believe it or not, Tebow took a heck of a lot more snaps under center with MaGahee behind him in a single back set than most people realize.

When Denver would find themselves behind in the 4th Quarter, the scheme and the play calling would change. Denver would switch to a Spread offense with Tebow operating out of the gun. As some saw with Washington and RG3 last year, this puts the defense in a predicament with personnel. Do they go heavy to stop the run ? Or do they go small to stop the pass.

A good example of this is that final drive against the Jets. IIRC, Tebow lined up under center for only 1 play on that drive and they ran a double option to the left. The rest of the drive, Tebow was in the gun and Denver had 4 or 5 receivers lined up spreading the defense out.
 
All very possible. Thus my assertion he's own the wrong team. The pats aren't built to run a spread of any kind whether its more like what tebow ran or the pistol like kap and others run. The 49ers, Seahawks, redskins and te eagles would be better fit. Plus tebow isn't beating out Kap, Wilson, rg3 or Vick meaning he could be 2nd string and still sit and try to get that throwing issue dealt with. 3rd string on the pats will do him no good.


This kind of depends on how you look at things. There was a debate on a Boston sports talk show that raised an interesting question. IF Tom Brady were to get dinged up and had to miss 2 games this year, what would be better for the Pats ? To have Ryan Mallett out there trying to run Brady's offense ? Or to have Tebow out there running the offense that Josh has tailored to him ?

They left out one possibility in my opinion, which is that Josh might have a version of the Brady offense that is "tailored" more to Mallett's strengths, so that has to be considered as well.

A second thing to look at is that Bill and Josh might be looking to next year. IF Mallett is traded in the offseason and Tebow moves to the #2, will he have developed enough to run "Brady's offense" ?

Third thing to consider. This one is really out there, but not beyond all realm of possibility. But what if Bill and Josh are looking at grooming Tebow to take over for Brady when he retires? AND, the next "evolution" of the Pats offense will be a Spread Option ?
 
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