The last 3 Patriot's drafts......

[Brady6]

I personally think the Tavon Wilson pick proved to be a solid acquisition. Would I have rather had Casey Heyward sure but overall it didn't end up being as big a head scratcher as the Kipers of the world made it out to be.

On a snaps played basis Wilson was more productive then Barron or Smith the 2 safeties taken ahead of him. I'm not saying he is a better player, that will be determined in over time.

 

[Deus Irae]

Take away the first rounders and considering those as givens, to one extent or another, and you've got a solid 2011 and a weak 2012. Wilson, Bequette and Ebner are huge disappointments to this point, and the 7th round pugilist is the lone saving grace of the draft, post round one.

2011, on the other hand, while still having a (to date) blown pick in round 2, has Vereen, Ridley and Cannon, who all look promising, and Mallett, who can throw a football really far.

The Jury's out on 2013, and 2010 is really the sort of draft that you play up for credentials:

McCourty
Gronk
Spikes
AH
Mesko

Until the Hernandez situation, that was a draft putting 5 starters (multiple pro bowlers) on the field.

If I'm picking 3 seasons, I'm going with 2010-2012 and downplaying 2012 as sort of an "even that year..." sort of thing.

 

[mgteich]

I don't 1sts in the 20's are givens. I think that the team has a solid 2012 because they traded up twice to get Jones and Hightower. Clearly, the patriots did not do so well after that, except for Dennard.

Take away the first rounders and considering those as givens, to one extent or another, and you've got a solid 2011 and a weak 2012. Wilson, Bequette and Ebner are huge disappointments to this point, and the 7th round pugilist is the lone saving grace of the draft, post round one.

2011, on the other hand, while still having a (to date) blown pick in round 2, has Vereen, Ridley and Cannon, who all look promising, and Mallett, who can throw a football really far.

The Jury's out on 2013, and 2010 is really the sort of draft that you play up for credentials:

McCourty
Gronk
Spikes
AH
Mesko

Until the Hernandez situation, that was a draft putting 5 starters (multiple pro bowlers) on the field.

If I'm picking 3 seasons, I'm going with 2010-2012 and downplaying 2012 as sort of an "even that year..." sort of thing.

 

[mgteich]

"proved" already??? I don't think so.

The pick of Tavon Wilson may turn out to be a solid acquisition. For now, it is not clear that he is anything but a special teamer. Of course, he COULD start this year, and then the pick would have been a solid pick.

That he played more than Barron or Smith is a commentary on our 2012 safety situation rather than on Wilson's considerable skills.

BTW, I'm sort of a traditionalist in judging draftees. I judge them in their 3rd preseason.

I personally think the Tavon Wilson pick proved to be a solid acquisition. Would I have rather had Casey Heyward sure but overall it didn't end up being as big a head scratcher as the Kipers of the world made it out to be.

On a snaps played basis Wilson was more productive then Barron or Smith the 2 safeties taken ahead of him. I'm not saying he is a better player, that will be determined in over time.

 

[Triumph]

I'll save more of the doom and gloom crowd from posting (I see borg already has)



This doesn't reflect my views.

The truth is never pretty.

The bottom like is that poor drafting has cost Brady his 4th ring. The Pats have not been successful at drafting DBs and WRs. The jury is still out on Tavon Wilson. McCourty had to be moved from CB because he couldnt cut it there. Nobody breath on Dowling.

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't 1sts in the 20's are givens. I think that the team has a solid 2012 because they traded up twice to get Jones and Hightower. Clearly, the patriots did not do so well after that, except for Dennard.

Until the Patriots draft a 1st round bust under BB, 1st round success is a given, IMO. To evaluate BB drafts, it's best to begin with the 2nd round.

And your last sentence is my point about that draft.

2010: Tremendous
2011: Not 2010 level, but very good already and promising for more
2012: Meh

 

[Nehalem]

Take away the first rounders and considering those as givens, to one extent or another, and you've got a solid 2011 and a weak 2012. Wilson, Bequette and Ebner are huge disappointments to this point, and the 7th round pugilist is the lone saving grace of the draft, post round one.

There are many 1st round busts; they aren't givens. It also seems silly to say ignoring the 2 biggest and more successful picks the 2012 draft was weak.

And I wouldn't say that Wilson and Ebner are huge disappointments.

Bequette I agree is a huge disappointment. You expect that a 3rd round pick is going to get on the field at least baring a Mallet-esque situation.

 

[Deus Irae]

There are many 1st round busts; they aren't givens. It also seems silly to say ignoring the 2 biggest and more successful picks the 2012 draft was weak.

New England has not had a first round bust in the BB era.

And I wouldn't say that Wilson and Ebner are huge disappointments.

Wilson and Ebner are huge disappointments, to date.

 

[Kontradiction]

New England has not had a first round bust in the BB era.



Wilson and Ebner are huge disappointments, to date.

I think Ebner is a disappointment simply because of the expectations that members here had of him after last season's draft. People saw an awesome rugby player that may be molded into an elite safety, for some reason. Personally, I was hoping for him to carve out a niche for himself on special teams and not much else. Given that, I'm pretty happy with him.

Wilson, I agree with. Repeated mental errors are never a good thing. They're particularly bad when you get toasted twice on the same exact play with the game on the line. That means the other team's coaches saw that and specifically targeted him. After that, we didn't hear much of Tavon. Hopefully, he's watched some extensive film in the offseason and has made improvements. We could really stand to use an upgrade next to McCourty at the safety position.

 

[DarrylS]

If you did a longitudinal study on all of the upper echelon teams, the Patriots would be close to the top.. every team has hits and misses.

They have seemed to have done better post Pioli... personally am pleased with the direction of this team, as they have gotten younger and more "football athletic"..

This team is being rebuilt on the fly, and not a heartbeat is skipped... all the while other teams in the East are reshaping their teams to compete with us, and we are always one step ahead.

Things are good, very good indeed.. enjoy the wealth.

 

[Rob0729]

The truth is never pretty.

The bottom like is that poor drafting has cost Brady his 4th ring. The Pats have not been successful at drafting DBs and WRs. The jury is still out on Tavon Wilson. McCourty had to be moved from CB because he couldnt cut it there. Nobody breath on Dowling.

No offense, but that is a bunch of horse kaka. A lucky helmet catch from a receiver who had 4 receptions the entire season kept Brady from his fourth ring. In fact it kept the 2007 Pats from being in the discussion for the best team of all time and the only team to ever win 19 games in a season. And an injury to Gronk in the AFC Championship Game kept Brady from his fifth ring. And good drafting got the Pats to the Super Bowl in 2011.

I am tired of this misnomer that bad personnel decisions has kept the Pats from winning another Super Bowl since the 2004 season. In 2007, the Pats had the most talented team in the NFL (probably the most talented offense of all time) and they didn't win. And in 2001, the Pats didn't have close to the most talented team in the NFL and they won.

Fact of the matter is the only big difference between 2001, 2003, and 2004 and 2007 and 2011 was the the Pats got the breaks in Super Bowl winning years (the tuck rule, the kick off out of bounds at the end of the Panthers' Super Bowl) and not the years they lost (Tyree with an impossible catch, Gronk getting injured right before the Super Bowl). It had little to nothing to do with the Pats' drafting.

 

[BradyFTW!]

New England has not had a first round bust in the BB era.



Wilson and Ebner are huge disappointments, to date.

Is it possible for a sixth round pick to be a huge disappointment?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Until the Patriots draft a 1st round bust under BB, 1st round success is a given, IMO. To evaluate BB drafts, it's best to begin with the 2nd round.

And your last sentence is my point about that draft.

2010: Tremendous
2011: Not 2010 level, but very good already and promising for more
2012: Meh

That doesn't make any sense to me, especially in a draft like 2012 where the Patriots traded later-round picks to move up twice in the first round. Just because Belichick always hits in the first round doesn't mean it no longer counts.

There are also degrees of 'hits'. Give me one Richard Seymour over a dozen Brandon Meriweathers.

 

[Huckleberry1]

The 2013 draft class has never played an NFL game.....but you have them in the win column already? The blinding power of the blue uniform. You obviously have high expectations for the Rutgers North crew

Tavon Wilson had never played a game yet you guys already had him working at MacDonald's, and when he had a decent rookie season many of you still have him working at MacDonald's. Apparently it is OK to write players off without any evidence to support it, and continue to write them off even when the evidence contradicts it, but it isn't OK to believe the team has a good rookie class....

 

[Deus Irae]

That doesn't make any sense to me, especially in a draft like 2012 where the Patriots traded later-round picks to move up twice in the first round. Just because Belichick always hits in the first round doesn't mean it no longer counts.

There are also degrees of 'hits'. Give me one Richard Seymour over a dozen Brandon Meriweathers.

I've not said that 1st rounders don't count. It's that they are givens not to be busts, and you can skip to the later round picks to really asses Patriots drafts. If you wanted a breakdown on them, though:

Jones started strong and tailed off, and Hightower was less than advertised for year one.

 

[JackBauer]

That doesn't make any sense to me, especially in a draft like 2012 where the Patriots traded later-round picks to move up twice in the first round. Just because Belichick always hits in the first round doesn't mean it no longer counts.

There are also degrees of 'hits'. Give me one Richard Seymour over a dozen Brandon Meriweathers.

Laurence Maroney is about on par with Vince Wilfork ... makes total sense.

 

[Rob0729]

I've not said that 1st rounders don't count. It's that they are givens not to be busts, and you can skip to the later round picks to really asses Patriots drafts. If you wanted a breakdown on them, though:

Jones started strong and tailed off, and Hightower was less than advertised for year one.

Jones was playing with two seriously sprained ankles towards the end of the season (it was believed he might need surgery on one or both in the offseason). He got injured and missed a few games and then never regained his form. He was on pace for 10 sacks, 5 FF, and 54 tackles before he was injured. Also, before he was injured, he was one of the favorites (if no the favorite) of DROY. He might have declined in production without the injuries, but he might have also ended up the best defensive rookie in the league too.

As for Hightower, he was solid in every area except for coverage (an area where he needs a lot of improvement). But he was also a rookie in a new system. He led the team in tackles for losses with 6. He was third on the team in sacks. He was still one of the top defensive rookies from last year's draft class when everything was said and done.

Based on their first years, both Jones and Hightower were solid picks. If they don't progress from their rookie season, then call me. If they are still what they were their rookie season in year three, you can call them disappointments.

 

[Deus Irae]

Jones was playing with two seriously sprained ankles towards the end of the season. He got injured and missed a few games and then never regained his form. He was on pace for 10 sacks, 5 FF, and 54 tackles before he was injured. Also, before he was injured, he was one of the favorites (if no the favorite) of DROY. He might have declined in production without the injuries, but he might have also ended up the best defensive rookie in the league too.

I know what was going on with Jones. It doesn't change what his on-the-field play was, and that's how you evaluate players.

As for Hightower, he was solid in every area except for coverage (an area where he needs a lot of improvement). But he was also a rookie in a new system. He led the team in tackles for losses. He was third on the team in sacks. He was still one of the top defensive rookies from last year's draft class when everything was said and done.

Hightower was a bit of a disappointment, which is not the same as being a bust or bad player. It is what it is.

Based on their first years, both Jones and Hightower were solid picks. If they don't progress from their rookie season, then call me. If they are still what they were their rookie season in year three, you can call them disappointments.

I've no problem with them. I broke it down because people couldn't just accept it as a given.

 

[tonyto3690]

I remember everyone bemoaning the 2011 draft. I actually mocked Cannon in the 3rd or 4th round and thought he was a steal. Dowling I was disappointed in. I was sure we were going to get a great deal on the 33rd pick and get a third and future first or something. Wanted to trade it.

2012 was good but Wilson and Bequette already look like massive busts and drag down the grade. If they were even mediocre role players it would be borderline great.

2013 is obviously way too early to tell. Collins, Dobson, Boyce appear to be worthwhile picks. Harmon and Logan have done nothing in camp so far. Buchanon has looked really good.

I've not said that 1st rounders don't count. It's that they are givens not to be busts, and you can skip to the later round picks to really asses Patriots drafts. If you wanted a breakdown on them, though:

Jones started strong and tailed off, and Hightower was less than advertised for year one.

Jone started strong and was favorite to win DROY then got hurt.

Hightower had an overrated rookie season, but he was still a quality starter.

Tavon Wilson had never played a game yet you guys already had him working at MacDonald's, and when he had a decent rookie season many of you still have him working at MacDonald's. Apparently it is OK to write players off without any evidence to support it, and continue to write them off even when the evidence contradicts it, but it isn't OK to believe the team has a good rookie class....

The thing is we've seen Tavon Wilson play. And he was worst than Gregory. And it appears in camp Belichick still believes Gregory is better as Wilson is getting 2nd team reps with Harmon.

Wilson is awful. Period.

 

[Rob0729]

I know what was going on with Jones. It doesn't change what his on-the-field play was, and that's how you evaluate players.

It doesn't change how his on the field play was, but it certainly changes the way you evaluate that on the field play. If a player is clearly hampered by an injury, you take that into affect in your analysis of his play when he is playing through that injury.

Hightower was a bit of a disappointment, which is not the same as being a bust or bad player. It is what it is.

Expectations were unfairly high for the guy in the first place. People expected him to come in an be an immediate impact player off the bat. He was a solid player all year. He was still better than a lot of the defensive players taken before him. The only area he disappointed was coverage and that is a big issue if he doesn't improve that.

If we did a draft do over, I would still have no problem with where he was selected and the fact had to trade up to get him. Other than Bobby Wagner, there isn't a single LB that I can think of who selected after him that I wanted more. And Wagner was a huge surprise on how good he was last year.

In fact, if they redid the 2012 draft, Jones wouldn't be available where the Pats took him and probably neither would Hightower. Jones would likely be a top 10 pick in a draft redo.

I've no problem with them. I broke it down because people couldn't just accept it as a given.

Either way, I think your assessment is unfair to the players a bit especially Jones.