Dennard arrested for DUI

[DarrylS]

No, it shows that they aren't reactionary idiots and treated Dennard's case without a thought to the Hernandez situation.

As much as I agree, have to wonder if there is more to this story than any of us know...

Cannot imagine them going into training camp, and have one of their projected starters jailed in the second week of camp...

 

[Kontradiction]

No, it just shows that they don't have all the answers yet, or they have them and feel OK about keeping Dennard around.

Considering the impact to the brand and how much that means to Kraft, you can be sure that they discussed the entire picture - including Hernandez - before making any decisions.

What else would they be waiting for? It's all but assured that the judge is going to revoke his probation. The only thing that's in the air at this point is jail time but, as has been pointing out, there's the distinct possibility that that can be pushed until after the season.

And I'm sure that they discussed Hernandez. But they're not going to cut Dennard because of what happened to him. That would asinine.

 

[Oswlek]

What else would they be waiting for? It's all but assured that the judge is going to revoke his probation. The only thing that's in the air at this point is jail time but, as has been pointing out, there's the distinct possibility that that can be pushed until after the season.

And I'm sure that they discussed Hernandez. But they're not going to cut Dennard because of what happened to him. That would asinine.

You answered the question yourself. "All but assured" means there is still an unlikely chance it isn't revoked. And even if it is how much jail time and when is still entirely up in the air.

No one said that they would cut Dennard because of Hernandez, just that the Foz doing what he did in the immediate aftermath demonstrates elevated levels of idiocy. Which is true and is definitely part of the equation.

 

[Kontradiction]

You answered the question yourself. "All but assured" means there is still an unlikely chance it isn't revoked. And even if it is how much jail time and when is still entirely up in the air.

No one said that they would cut Dennard because of Hernandez, just that the Foz doing what he did in the immediate aftermath demonstrates elevated levels of idiocy. Which is true and is definitely part of the equation.

I'm not going to argue that he WASN'T an idiot for doing what he did. The timing and pure stupidity of driving intoxicated in a state where you were just on trial for assaulting a police officer reached epic levels. He's absolutely a dumb ass for doing that, and I stated just that multiple times at the beginning of the thread.

That said, it's faulty logic to cut the second best corner on the team (particularly given the issues we have had in the secondary to date since 2007) both in light of the timing with the Hernandez investigation, and for his first infraction since being on the team. Reprimand him, let him serve the suspension that he'll undoubedly get from Herr Goodell, give him some community service, and let him serve whatever time he may get. If he continues to be a problem, then cut him.

As for me answering the question myself, I pointed out that there isn't much that the team could really wait for at this point. Unless he does something else, I think it's highly unlikely he gets cut. If they were going to cut him for this, it would have happened already. The team has had more than enough time to do it's due diligence.

 

[Oswlek]

I'm not going to argue that he WASN'T an idiot for doing what he did. The timing and pure stupidity of driving intoxicated in a state where you were just on trial for assaulting a police officer reached epic levels. He's absolutely a dumb ass for doing that, and I stated just that multiple times at the beginning of the thread.

That said, it's faulty logic to cut the second best corner on the team (particularly given the issues we have had in the secondary to date since 2007) both in light of the timing with the Hernandez investigation, and for his first infraction since being on the team. Reprimand him, let him serve the suspension that he'll undoubedly get from Herr Goodell, give him some community service, and let him serve whatever time he may get. If he continues to be a problem, then cut him.

As for me answering the question myself, I pointed out that there isn't much that the team could really wait for at this point. Unless he does something else, I think it's highly unlikely he gets cut. If they were going to cut him for this, it would have happened already. The team has had more than enough time to do it's due diligence.

"First infraction on the team" - this, IMO is faulty logic. I fully back the idea that the league shouldn't have been able to punish him for the pre-draft fiasco, but the Patriots aren't held to the same standard. This is now the second criminal charge brought against him in consecutive years. The fact that the first occurred 4 days prior to being an NFL player is largely meaningless when it comes to deciding how you feel about him moving forward.

And I still disagree with your final point. If his probation is revoked and he is required to spend 60 days in jail - effective immediately - do you think the Patriots would keep him on the roster? How about if those same days are added to his sentence beginning next March? What if the court decides that there isn't enough evidence to alter the prior stance?

There is still plenty up-in-the-air that NE could be waiting on.

 

[Kontradiction]

"First infraction on the team" - this, IMO is faulty logic. I fully back the idea that the league shouldn't have been able to punish him for the pre-draft fiasco, but the Patriots aren't held to the same standard. This is now the second criminal charge brought against him in consecutive years. The fact that the first occurred 4 days prior to being an NFL player is largely meaningless when it comes to deciding how you feel about him moving forward.

It's not faulty logic at all. The infraction occurred while he was still in Nebraska. He wasn't receiving pay checks from the New England Patriots yet and hadn't even been drafted by them. That he had to go to court for it (in the offseason, no less) is irrelevant. Further, the Patriots took him knowing what happened.

And I still disagree with your final point. If his probation is revoked and he is required to spend 60 days in jail - effective immediately - do you think the Patriots would keep him on the roster? How about if those same days are added to his sentence beginning next March? What if the court decides that there isn't enough evidence to alter the prior stance?

There is still plenty up-in-the-air that NE could be waiting on.

I would hope that they keep him on the roster, yes. 60 days in jail, effective immediately, is the worst that could happen. But it would still put him on the team, fresh legs and all, at the middle or near the end of the season (depending on what would come down from Goodell).

 

[BradyFTW!]

"First infraction on the team" - this, IMO is faulty logic. I fully back the idea that the league shouldn't have been able to punish him for the pre-draft fiasco, but the Patriots aren't held to the same standard. This is now the second criminal charge brought against him in consecutive years. The fact that the first occurred 4 days prior to being an NFL player is largely meaningless when it comes to deciding how you feel about him moving forward.

And I still disagree with your final point. If his probation is revoked and he is required to spend 60 days in jail - effective immediately - do you think the Patriots would keep him on the roster? How about if those same days are added to his sentence beginning next March? What if the court decides that there isn't enough evidence to alter the prior stance?

There is still plenty up-in-the-air that NE could be waiting on.

I would assume so. He's a good CB playing for pocket change; those guys aren't easy to find. I can think of worse uses of the 53rd spot on the roster.

 

[Oswlek]

It's not faulty logic at all. The infraction occurred while he was still in Nebraska. He wasn't receiving pay checks from the New England Patriots yet and hadn't even been drafted by them. That he had to go to court for it (in the offseason, no less) is irrelevant. Further, the Patriots took him knowing what happened.

I would hope that they keep him on the roster, yes. 60 days in jail, effective immediately, is the worst that could happen. But it would still put him on the team, fresh legs and all, at the middle or near the end of the season (depending on what would come down from Goodell).

It absolutely is faulty logic and it blows my mind that anyone would think otherwise. If you hired an employee with a record for theft and shortly thereafter caught him stealing something, would you ignore the prior issues because they happened at other companies?

The Patriots took him, but that doesn't mean he has the same length leash as everyone else.

 

[Oswlek]

I would assume so. He's a good CB playing for pocket change; those guys aren't easy to find. I can think of worse uses of the 53rd spot on the roster.

I humbly disagree, even though they likely would get a roster exemption and not even need to use the 53rd spot.

 

[belichick010405]

Since I live near Nebraska, I can tell you that it is more than likely that his suspended sentence may either be revoked or he will submit to substance abuse counseling as a new condition of his probation.

More than likely, his probation officer will give testimony to Dennard's status up to the DUI event in question and will likely be seen as someone that has been compliant to his probationary conditions.

Since this is a first offense DUI, and the first offense is likely going to be contested, it is more likely that his probationary status is going to have new conditions implemented (i.e. substance abuse counseling or testing) rather than having his probation revoked.

Now with that said - this is all up to the judge and no one knows what the judge is going to think and what is going on with this case behind closed doors, if anything is going on behind closed doors.

The difference between these two cases is that one was a victimless crime (DUI) and one was not. The connective tissue is that each of the incidents occurred at or around 2 AM. This should lead the judge to believe that substance abuse counseling should be appropriate before another crime is committed upon another victim.

If I were a betting man - I would give a 75% shot that his probation status is not revoked and substance abuse counseling is initiated as a continuing condition of his delayed serving of a 30-day sentence.

 

[Oswlek]

Since I live near Nebraska, I can tell you that it is more than likely that his suspended sentence may either be revoked or he will submit to substance abuse counseling as a new condition of his probation.

More than likely, his probation officer will give testimony to Dennard's status up to the DUI event in question and will likely be seen as someone that has been compliant to his probationary conditions.

Since this is a first offense DUI, and the first offense is likely going to be contested, it is more likely that his probationary status is going to have new conditions implemented (i.e. substance abuse counseling or testing) rather than having his probation revoked.

Now with that said - this is all up to the judge and no one knows what the judge is going to think and what is going on with this case behind closed doors, if anything is going on behind closed doors.

The difference between these two cases is that one was a victimless crime (DUI) and one was not. The connective tissue is that each of the incidents occurred at or around 2 AM. This should lead the judge to believe that substance abuse counseling should be appropriate before another crime is committed upon another victim.

If I were a betting man - I would give a 75% shot that his probation status is not revoked and substance abuse counseling is initiated as a continuing condition of his delayed serving of a 30-day sentence.

And if this is the case, he should remain a Patriot.

Let's just hope he doesn't slap his attorney on the ass at any point during the hearing.

 

[Kontradiction]

It absolutely is faulty logic and it blows my mind that anyone would think otherwise. If you hired an employee with a record for theft and shortly thereafter caught him stealing something, would you ignore the prior issues because they happened at other companies?

The Patriots took him, but that doesn't mean he has the same length leash as everyone else.

Bad example. Dennard didn't assault another police officer. He got pulled over for misdemeanor DUI. And I didn't say that he has the same length leash. Just that the Patriots would awfully stupid to cut the guy for a DUI just because of bad timing.

 

[Oswlek]

Bad example. Dennard didn't assault another police officer. He got pulled over for misdemeanor DUI. And I didn't say that he has the same length leash. Just that the Patriots would awfully stupid to cut the guy for a DUI just because of bad timing.

I knew you were going to say that when I posted it.

Substitute a different infraction, the illustration remains the same. You are focusing on the periphery instead of the point.

 

[Brady6]

29-2262 - Probation; conditions. :: 2012 Nebraska Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

29-2266 - Probation; violation; procedure. :: 2012 Nebraska Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

http://law.justia.com/codes/nebraska/2012/chapter-29/statute-29-2267/ and finally -

http://law.justia.com/codes/nebraska/2012/chapter-29/statute-29-2268/

In case anyone was wondering what the 2012 Nebraska Code is regarding probation violations, here is some guidance for those that are interested.

Here is a standing precedent regarding the alleged DUI that the judge will likely consider at the probation revocation hearing - A requirement that one convicted of driving while intoxicated attend and complete and pay for an alcohol abuse course is a valid condition of probation. State v. Muggins, 192 Neb. 415, 222 N.W.2d 289 (1974).

or this citation - Where the defendant violates a condition of his probation, the court may extend the terms of the probation, provided that the total length of probation does not exceed two years for a first offense misdemeanor or five years for a second offense misdemeanor or felony. State v. Ladehoff, 229 Neb. 111, 425 N.W.2d 352 (1988).

Great information BB010405. Thank you for sharing!

 

[Danger Zone]

Just one fan's opinion (and someone that cares about staying/being a classy organisation)... I'm okay with giving Dennard a third strike here.

This decision made easier I admit by a desperate desire to see the Patriots back to fielding an elite defense again.

 

[mgteich]

I agree.

However, I don't expect that Dennard can stay out of trouble forever. The third strike will come soon enough. For now, we can discuss delaying jail time and the conditions of the probations in both cases.

It is good that we have two other youngsters for the future: Dowling and Ryan.

Just one fan's opinion (and someone that cares about staying/being a classy organisation)... I'm okay with giving Dennard a third strike here.

This decision made easier I admit by a desperate desire to see the Patriots back to fielding an elite defense again.

 

[Ring 6]

I knew you were going to say that when I posted it.

Substitute a different infraction, the illustration remains the same. You are focusing on the periphery instead of the point.

You do realize that if you cut every player on an NFL roster with infractions roughly equivalent to what Dennard has, you wouldn't be able to field teams, right?
The only difference between this and all those other players is having a murderer for a former teammate.

 

[mgteich]

What you say is true.

The open question is whether the NFL will continue to accept this situation.

You do realize that if you cut every player on an NFL roster with infractions roughly equivalent to what Dennard has, you wouldn't be able to field teams, right?
The only difference between this and all those other players is having a murderer for a former teammate.

 

[dreamsfloatjoe]

... The third strike will come soon enough...

Exactly. Labor Day weekend? Halloween? Thanksgiving? December 25th Holidaze season? New Year's Eve? Other?

 

[Oswlek]

You do realize that if you cut every player on an NFL roster with infractions roughly equivalent to what Dennard has, you wouldn't be able to field teams, right?
The only difference between this and all those other players is having a murderer for a former teammate.

Show me all the players who were sentenced to prison time and then less than 4 months later were arrested for something else.

Go ahead, I'll wait.