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NFL.com ranking of backup QBs: Mallett #11, Tebow #17

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Simple explanation is that there is no way that Rex was going to put Tebow in as the starter, and in my opinion, it's because he was worried that Tebow might actually do better than both Sanchez and McElroy, which would really make him look stupid and put him in a difficult situation this year.

IMO it was because he was ineffective in the wildcat, all the plays appeared to be broken plays which in view showed he didn't grasp the plays well enough to execute them. I cannot see how you could trust him to run the entire offense if he can't run a small portion of it?
 
IMO it was because he was ineffective in the wildcat, all the plays appeared to be broken plays which in view showed he didn't grasp the plays well enough to execute them. I cannot see how you could trust him to run the entire offense if he can't run a small portion of it?

Don't worry Brady - Demos will blame someone else other than Tebow as to why he sucked last year as well.
 
There is no debate period and when Tebow is cut by the Patriots, you and the Tebow lemmings can go find the board on which CFL team that he may be a part of in 2014 or 2015. Hey maybe - he will be playing at your local indoor football league.

Ya know, I think I'm actually going to be sad that I can't be there to watch your head explode if Mallet gets traded and Tebow takes over as the #2 behind Brady.
 
Ya know, I think I'm actually going to be sad that I can't be there to watch your head explode if Mallet gets traded and Tebow takes over as the #2 behind Brady.

I cannot wait for you to explode when Mallet continues to be the #2 on this team and after Tebow is released.
 
IMO it was because he was ineffective in the wildcat, all the plays appeared to be broken plays which in view showed he didn't grasp the plays well enough to execute them. I cannot see how you could trust him to run the entire offense if he can't run a small portion of it?

If you happened to go to a Jet's board, you'd find nearly universal agreement that Sparano had no idea how to design and run a Wildcat offense. Even many die hard Tebow haters agreed with this.

Yes, Tebow is a big guy and can be hard to bring down. That doesn't mean that you can put him in a direct snap situation and just say "run the ball" and expect it to be effective.

As low an opinion as I have of Mike McCoy, he was light years ahead of Sparano in designing and calling a read/option attack.
 
As low an opinion as I have of Mike McCoy, he was light years ahead of Sparano in designing and calling a read/option attack.

You appear to be in minority in your opinion of McCoy.

"In addition to the Bears, the Arizona Cardinals, Buffalo Bills, San Diego Chargers, and Philadelphia Eagles also asked—and were granted permission—to interview McCoy for their vacant head coaching positions during the Broncos' playoff bye week."

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_McCoy_(American_football_coach)
 
There is no debate period and when Tebow is cut by the Patriots, you and the Tebow lemmings can go find the board on which CFL team that he may be a part of in 2014 or 2015. Hey maybe - he will be playing at your local indoor football league.

yes..I agree...there is a high probability that what you opine occurs.
 
You appear to be in minority in your opinion of McCoy.

"In addition to the Bears, the Arizona Cardinals, Buffalo Bills, San Diego Chargers, and Philadelphia Eagles also asked—and were granted permission—to interview McCoy for their vacant head coaching positions during the Broncos' playoff bye week."

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_McCoy_(American_football_coach)

the first time I ever heard such an opinion on McCoy was right here...last week...chalked it up to someone with a really deep seated agenda....looks like we were all right..McCoy has been targeted by a certain group of "fans".
 
Ya know, I think I'm actually going to be sad that I can't be there to watch your head explode if Mallet gets traded and Tebow takes over as the #2 behind Brady.

Realistically I'd be ecstatic if Mallett got traded in the preseason. That would mean we received excellent compensation and the plan to draft him, develop him and then trade him for more value than spent worked out. But it's unlikely. Especially if Washington feels comfortable with RGIII's health and listens to offers for Cousins.
 
I would have ranked T.J. Yates higher, as well as Matt Cassel. I also think Tebow should be higher, but that's just me. He did win a playoff game after all.
 
He was the HC when Ronnie Brown and the Dolphins brought the wildcat back into the NFL.

Ronnie Brown scores 5 TDs as Dolphins crush Patriots

So the jets board is very uneducated if that is truly their belief.

Sparano was the head coach of the Dolphins. His OC was Mike Henning and the QB coach was David Lee.

From Wiki:

In a December 24, 2006 game between the Carolina Panthers and Atlanta Falcons, the Panthers deployed a formation without a quarterback and snapped the ball directly to running back DeAngelo Williams for much of the game.[17] The Panthers ran the ball—mostly in this formation—for the first twelve plays of the opening drive, and ran the ball 52 times, with only 7 passing plays. The offensive coordinator of the Carolina Panthers at the time, Dan Henning, later developed this concept into the wildcat as the offensive coordinator for the Miami Dolphins.[18]

Relying on the experience of quarterbacks coach David Lee who had run the scheme at Arkansas, the 2008 Miami Dolphins under Henning implemented the wildcat offense beginning in the third game of the 2008 season with great success, instigating a wider trend throughout the NFL.[19][20] The Dolphins started the wildcat trend in the NFL lining up either running back Ronnie Brown (in most cases) or Ricky Williams to take a shotgun snap with the option of handing off, running, or throwing. Through eleven games, the wildcat averaged over seven yards per play for the Dolphins. "It could be the single wing, it could be the Delaware split buck business that they used to do," Dolphins offensive coordinator Dan Henning said. "It comes from all of that."[21] On September 21, 2008, the Miami Dolphins used the wildcat offense against the New England Patriots on six plays, which produced 5 touchdowns (four rushing and one passing—from Ronnie Brown himself) in a 38–13 upset victory.



Here's an article about it from ESPN:


Miami coaches had 'Wildcat' familiarity - AFC East Blog - ESPN

Miami Dolphins quarterbacks coach David Lee is getting much of the credit for installing the gimmick offense they ran Sunday to flummox the New England Patriots.
Running back Ronnie Brown scored four rushing touchdowns in a 38-13 rout. Brown also threw a touchdown pass.

The Wildcat offense, as the Dolphins call it, put Brown in a shotgun formation, spread quarterback Chad Pennington wide and lined up Ricky Williams as a wingback who would counter. The Patriots were fooled out of their socks.

Lee used that ploy at Arkansas with Darren McFadden and Felix Jones.

But Dolphins offensive coordinator Dan Henning ran a similar system before in the NFL -- and to a much higher degree.
Henning was the Carolina Panthers' offensive coordinator when they found themselves in a bind heading into a December 2006 game against the Atlanta Falcons.
•The Panthers had lost four straight games (the Dolphins had lost 20 of their past 21 games).
•The Panthers were coming off an embarrassing 37-3 loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers (the Dolphins were coming off an embarrassing 31-10 loss to the Arizona Cardinals).
•Panthers quarterback Jake Delhomme was injured, and backup Chris Weinke was too hurt to practice during the week and hadn't won in 17 career starts (Dolphins quarterback Chad Pennington had been ineffective through two games).
•The Panthers had two capable rushers in DeShaun Foster and DeAngelo Williams (the Dolphins have two capable backs in Brown and Ricky Williams).

Henning's solution was to snap directly to DeAngelo Williams and hand off to Foster.

Unlike the Dolphins, who picked their spots with the Wildcat, Henning went full-scale with his gimmick.

The Panthers ran 52 times that day and held the ball for nearly 42 minutes in a 10-7 victory. The Panthers tried seven passes, one of them going for the game's only touchdown


You still want to stand by your position wrt Sparano and the Wildcat ?


I suffered through last year watching a "Tony Sparano designed offense," it was an absolutely painful experience as the man really didn't have much of a clue. There's a reason that he's fallen from being a Head Coach, all the way down to being an offensive line coach.
 
I am not a Tebow "enthusiast," and am not particularly thrilled by his signing. That said, I do believe he got a raw deal with the Jets.

In spite of Ryan's bluster that Tebow was the #2 quarterback, I think he never had any intentions of letting Tebow start at QB. He was and is fully invested in having Sanchez as the franchise QB for the Jets. (May he forever remain so delusional.)

I think Tebow to the Jets was Woody Johnson's attempts to sell more tickets and personal seat licenses for the new stadium. But it was also clear that the Jets had no idea for how to use him effectively—or chose not to do so.

As for playing for New England, if Tebow is QB3, and only QB3, then this is a horrible place for him to be—because he will probably be inactive every week. He'll need to have some value beyond that to crack the gameday roster.
 
You appear to be in minority in your opinion of McCoy.

"In addition to the Bears, the Arizona Cardinals, Buffalo Bills, San Diego Chargers, and Philadelphia Eagles also asked—and were granted permission—to interview McCoy for their vacant head coaching positions during the Broncos' playoff bye week."

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_McCoy_(American_football_coach)


I'm sure that I am in the minority opinion. So what? Is that how you decide your positions ? Take a poll of what others believe, and adopt that as your's ?

Me ? I prefer to think for myself. McCoy was on Carolina's coaching staff from 2000 to 2008. Highest position attained was QB coach and passing game coordinator. Two things that he was never asked to do were create an entire offensive scheme, or call the plays.

In 2009, he was hired by the Denver Broncos to fill the position of Offensive Coordinator. The coach of course was Josh McDaniels. The Broncos ran Josh McDaniels offense and Josh McDaniels handled the play calling. When Josh was fired 12 games into the 2010 season, McCoy wasn't named as interim HC. Instead, Eric Studesville, the running backs coach, was. McCoy probably called the plays in those last 4 games, but they still ran McDaniels' offense.

At the beginning of 2011, from all reports, the playbook hadn't changed much, Denver was still running McDaniels' offense up through game 5. Tebow took over and people talk about how McCoy scrapped the playbook and came up with a new offense, but that just isn't the case.

Here's a good article about it:

The Broncos learned the hard way that a traditional offense wouldn’t work well at this point in Tebow’s career. While his first instance of NFL clutch play — i.e. Tebow Time — came when he led an improbable comeback against Miami in late October, his deficiencies as a conventional pro passer were badly exposed the following week during a 45-10 home loss to Detroit. Tebow was sacked seven times and threw an interception that was returned 100 yards for a touchdown.

The rout prompted a radical philosophical shift that called for new packages in addition to what Denver had installed during the preseason. The following week, Oakland was so taken aback by Denver’s spread option that Tebow and running back Willis McGahee both rushed for more than 100 yards in a 38-24 win.

The Broncos have since fluctuated between college trappings and pro-style plays to take advantage of Tebow’s mobility.

“It’s just one more dimension,” Broncos head coach John Fox said. “We still have conventional runs. We still throw the ball. We have the passing game we installed in training camp. The option stuff and the quarterback threat of running is something we added.”

McCoy said he asked Tebow and wide receiver Demaryius Thomas – who played in a triple-option attack late in his college career at Georgia Tech – for input on plays they liked to run. McCoy also leaned on Broncos assistants with college experience and analyzed the Gators offense run by Urban Meyer, who was Tebow’s head coach at Florida from 2006 to 2009.

“I’ll be honest with you: I didn’t know a lot about this,” said McCoy, who became Denver’s offensive coordinator in 2009. “We had done some (option) stuff last year with Tim so I knew the basics. But it was like I was in second grade just learning some things. As the weeks went on, we kept building off it.”

TL;DR version is that McCoy didn't scrap the playbook and start over. To his credit, they changed the overall philosophy to being a run centric offense, and they added in some option plays.

To illustrate what I mean, say that Bill and Josh decide to be a run focused offense this year. They wouldn't have to scrap the playbook. Rather, they'd use the plays already in the book, the change would be in which plays they called at specific times and that the run to pass ratio would change.

Back to my point. McCoy changed philosophy and added in some option packages for the final 13 games of the season. Even then, his play calling through the first 3 quarters of games was suspect. In the 4th Q, Denver opened things up and the offense improved.

Manning comes in, Tebow gets traded. McCoy now designs "his offense". Denver doesn't do all that well at the beginning of the season. Again, they have trouble scoring points in the first half, then they opened things up in the 2nd half and put points on the board. They also switched over to running Peyton and Tom Moore's Colts offense. BAM, they turn into an offensive juggernaught.

Something I will give McCoy credit for is his willingness to adapt. I don't think he did nearly as good a job with Tebow as many give him credit for, and I don't think he did that great a job with designing an offense and calling plays for Manning.

That the Cardinals, Bills, Chargers and Eagles all sought McCoy out as a coach is irrelevant in my opinion. Last I checked, the Chargers, Bills, Cardinals and Eagles weren't very good teams, so I definitely question their collective organizational judgment. The Cardinals were 45-51 in Whisenhunt's 6 years there, 18-30 over the last 3. The Bills were 16-32 under 3 years with Chan Gailey. The Chargers were 56-40 under Norv, but in the last 3 years were 24-24. The Eagles were 130-93 under Reid, but 22-26 over the last 3 years. (In fairness to Reid, I think that the situation with his son has really affected him.).

Anyways, each year, a number of coaches in the NFL are fired, and a number of others should have been fired but weren't. If coaches are getting fired, that means they weren't very good. So again, that some teams think well of a coach is irrelevant in my opinion. Look at the details and form your own opinion.
 
I am not a Tebow "enthusiast," and am not particularly thrilled by his signing. That said, I do believe he got a raw deal with the Jets.

In spite of Ryan's bluster that Tebow was the #2 quarterback, I think he never had any intentions of letting Tebow start at QB. He was and is fully invested in having Sanchez as the franchise QB for the Jets. (May he forever remain so delusional.)

I think Tebow to the Jets was Woody Johnson's attempts to sell more tickets and personal seat licenses for the new stadium. But it was also clear that the Jets had no idea for how to use him effectively—or chose not to do so.

As for playing for New England, if Tebow is QB3, and only QB3, then this is a horrible place for him to be—because he will probably be inactive every week. He'll need to have some value beyond that to crack the gameday roster.

I agree with you for the most part, though I'm confused about your last statement. Are you saying that it's a terrible place for Tebow to be from his perspective ? Or from the team's ?
 
I agree with you for the most part, though I'm confused about your last statement. Are you saying that it's a terrible place for Tebow to be from his perspective ? Or from the team's ?
Being QB3 in NE isn't a good deal for Tebow, and frankly, it's not all that good of a deal for the Patriots, either. His playing style is just so different from Brady's that I don't see how he can take over for an extended period of time without having to completely rewrite the playbook to accommodate the change in style.

Moreover, if he's just going to sit on the bench the whole time, he's not going to be of any value to other teams, because there will be no evidence that he's corrected his mechanistic flaws. (And I think it is rather clear that he does have significant technical shortcomings when it comes to passing.)
 
Being QB3 in NE isn't a good deal for Tebow, and frankly, it's not all that good of a deal for the Patriots, either. His playing style is just so different from Brady's that I don't see how he can take over for an extended period of time without having to completely rewrite the playbook to accommodate the change in style.

Moreover, if he's just going to sit on the bench the whole time, he's not going to be of any value to other teams, because there will be no evidence that he's corrected his mechanistic flaws. (And I think it is rather clear that he does have significant technical shortcomings when it comes to passing.)

He'll get snaps in per-season, and if we're to believe the Tebow-phobes, no other NFL team was going to sign him and therefore his NE exposure would be the best he'd get.
 
Being QB3 in NE isn't a good deal for Tebow, and frankly, it's not all that good of a deal for the Patriots, either. His playing style is just so different from Brady's that I don't see how he can take over for an extended period of time without having to completely rewrite the playbook to accommodate the change in style.

Moreover, if he's just going to sit on the bench the whole time, he's not going to be of any value to other teams, because there will be no evidence that he's corrected his mechanistic flaws. (And I think it is rather clear that he does have significant technical shortcomings when it comes to passing.)


Being QB3 is actually great for Tebow. It gives him time to sit back and focus on developing under Josh and company. When he was drafted, many saw him as a 3 year project. He had 3 starts his rookie year, and took over in game 6 of his 2nd year. Sometimes that can help development, if you are allowed to go out there and make the normal mistakes that most young QBs make. Some teams are willing to accept losses while their young starting QB develops. Other teams just want wins. This is something that Steve Young chided Denver for in 2012 with the changes in their offense. His overall point was that you have to let young QBs make mistakes and learn from them, and that Denver wasn't doing that.

So again, for Tebow, it's an ideal situation that he can be off the radar for the most part and learn from coaches who believe in him.

For the Patriots, it's a more complex issue. IF the find some other uses for Tebow and he can help the team while being QB3, that's definitely a plus. If not, and he doesn't see the field, then it becomes a question of what return do they get on the investment. Does Tebow develop enough to let them trade Mallet ? Perhaps Tebow might turn into a really good QB and he'll be there waiting in the wings as Brady's successor. Either of these scenarios would be well worth the cost of having Tebow on the team. However if he doesn't develop, then it's a failed experiment and a wasted roster spot.
 
Sparano was the head coach of the Dolphins. His OC was Mike Henning and the QB coach was David Lee.

From Wiki:





Here's an article about it from ESPN:


Miami coaches had 'Wildcat' familiarity - AFC East Blog - ESPN




You still want to stand by your position wrt Sparano and the Wildcat ?


I suffered through last year watching a "Tony Sparano designed offense," it was an absolutely painful experience as the man really didn't have much of a clue. There's a reason that he's fallen from being a Head Coach, all the way down to being an offensive line coach.

As I've said before I'm by no means anti Tebow. I do think his fan base makes excuses for him and passes the buck. That's basically what you're doing.

Adversity is one of the things that great players over come. Whether its external or internal.
 
As I've said before I'm by no means anti Tebow. I do think his fan base makes excuses for him and passes the buck. That's basically what you're doing.

Adversity is one of the things that great players over come. Whether its external or internal.

What you see as excuses could actually be valid reasons.

Heck, let's look a the Pats and Brady for an example of this. People are asking if scoring will be down this year. Say that it does end up being down.

Would it be an "excuse" that basically lost something like 4 of his top 5 WRs ?

Instead of using a hypothetical example, how about we look at one from the past?

In 2007, the Pats finished the regular season undefeated at 16-0. The next year, they fell off quite a bit, finishing 11-5. Still a good record, but much worse than the year before.

Is it an "excuse" to point out that the Pats lost Tom Brady for the season and that the 11-5 was posted by a backup QB ?

You might call it an excuse, but I think most others would call it a "valid reason" or "explanation".


EDIT: BTW, couldn't help but notice that didn't try to continue the argument that Sparano brought the Wildcat to the NFL, therefore, he actually knew how to run it. Are you no longer standing by that position given what I posted >?
 
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