Who Is Satisfied With Our Secondary?

[Triumph]

Who is satisfied with our secondary?

IMHO, the answer is "delusional homers or optimists".

I stopped wearing the Pats colored glasses years ago.

Remember when the Pats had the components of solid D backfield with Bodden and McCourty? If there are issues with Talib or Dennard, Arrington goes right back to starting CB as the back up plan.

Id like to see a plug and play coverage Safety added too, but there just arent enough high draft picks to also fix the WR position which is a desperate need.

So, no Im not convinced the pass defense is fixed and the Pats are not winning another Super Bowl until it is fixed. Thats the bottom line.

 

[MTM558]

I'm not overly satisfied (this year), but the pieces are in place for improvement. What is needed more than anything is quality depth.

As it stands now, Talib and Dennard will be the outside Cornerbacks, and Arrington will man the slot. That's a pretty solid trio, in my opinion. The only concern I have is if someone goes down due to injury. That will then thrust Arrington into an outside Cornerback role and have other Special Teams players make contributions. That's not too exciting.

At Safety, Devin McCourty has shown some serious promise over parts of the last 2 seasons. It looks as though the coaching staff is willing to play him there to start the season. If he does well, I think we can consider the Free Safety spot to be covered. The questions remains 'who is Strong Safety? Who is 3rd Safety?" While he may not start this year, I can't believe the Patriots drafted Tavon Wilson with their 2nd round pick just to be a backup. He made some great plays last year in coverage, and others not so great, which unfortunately were more eye glaring. Adrian Wilson is a great veteran signing, but I am not sure he'll be around for more than a year, or even be a starter. Steve Gregory has made plays but has been inconsistent, which is why he should be a solid backup Safety.

Based on this outline, the Patriots need to look into acquiring another potential starter at Cornerback to replace Talib for next season, as well as some solid veterans/prospects to fill out the depth chart. If Dowling was actually healthy and contributing, I don't think our Cornerback depth chart would look so barren.

At Safey, I think you have to let Tavon show what he has in his 2nd year before making any decsions on further additions. Adrian Wilson and Gregory will be solid backups.

 

[Nunchucks]

I am happy with the starters.

Safeties: Wilson and McCourty with Wilson and Gregory as backups
CBs: Talib and Dennard, with Arington as the Nickel

My problem is with depth at CB. Who is the dimeback? We have Cole and Dowling, but Dowling needs to show he can play at an NFL level and Cole leaves a little to be desired.

So, I think they need to draft another CB, hopefully in the first or second round.

 

[Kontradiction]

I like the physical edge that Wilson brings to the secondary. They looked very soft in the Baltimore game and I think that the secondary needs someone of his caliber. But I am worried about his regression in coverage over the last couple of seasons. That said, safety (which was my top need going into the offseason) has fallen back a bit. I think that the draft should go: WR, DE, WR with the first three picks. Safety should come right after that. The need to draft a second WR could possibly be mitigated with Lloyd being brought back, but it would still be a need this year and going into next season.

 

[belichick010405]

If Dowling can stay healthy then the secondary is in a good spot. The one fact that has not been brought up in this thread is that BB values positional versatility.

McCourty (FS and corner)

Adrian Wilson (SS and hybrid coverage in lieu of a linebacker if he can prove that he can cover a running back or tight end)

Tavon Wilson (FS/SS and he played corner at U of Illinois)

Gregory (S and dime corner)

With Talib and Dennard set in stone at the starting corners, the only real question is if BB and Caserio are going to draft someone in case Dowling's value on this team is not going to be relied upon.

I highly doubt that the Pats are going to spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on a secondary that has 90% of the pieces in place when he has other pieces that can be utilized in case someone gets hurt and that includes Dowling.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I like the physical edge that Wilson brings to the secondary. They looked very soft in the Baltimore game and I think that the secondary needs someone of his caliber. But I am worried about his regression in coverage over the last couple of seasons. That said, safety (which was my top need going into the offseason) has fallen back a bit. I think that the draft should go: WR, DE, WR with the first three picks. Safety should come right after that. The need to draft a second WR could possibly be mitigated with Lloyd being brought back, but it would still be a need this year and going into next season.

I agree with most of this, and while i think that they could still use more talent in the secondary for the long term i am OK with this line-up and a vet FA (possibly Woodson) after the draft. I also think that their current defensive backfield is going to pay more dividends for them when the play-offs roll around as the refs seem to forget the regular season rules and allow secondaries to play much more physical.

I like the 2 WR 1 DE approach in the first 3 rounds but see it as dependent upon who is there when they pick, if Werner is on the board at 29 then take him, and the same can be said for Carradine if they believe he will be healthy and able to really contribute this season. I really don't care that much if they go Wr/DE/WR, or DE/WR/WR just as long as they hit on the picks. given the need for pass rush and the depth at WR the DE/WR/WR approach may be the best route to follow.

 

[mgteich]

You seem to ignore that the primary purpose of the draft is develop starters for the next year and the year after. Talib may be set in stone. However, he has an injury history and is signed for only one year. Having a top corner who can fill in for him or Dowling is important. Otherwise, we will likely spend another year bemoaning the fact that we didn't go far enough because of unforeseen injuries (yet again). Or, at very best, we will bemoan having to pay big money for a free agent corner in 2014.

If Dowling can stay healthy then the secondary is in a good spot. The one fact that has not been brought up in this thread is that BB values positional versatility.

McCourty (FS and corner)

Adrian Wilson (SS and hybrid coverage in lieu of a linebacker if he can prove that he can cover a running back or tight end)

Tavon Wilson (FS/SS and he played corner at U of Illinois)

Gregory (S and dime corner)

With Talib and Dennard set in stone at the starting corners, the only real question is if BB and Caserio are going to draft someone in case Dowling's value on this team is not going to be relied upon.

I highly doubt that the Pats are going to spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on a secondary that has 90% of the pieces in place when he has other pieces that can be utilized in case someone gets hurt and that includes Dowling.

 

[Rob0729]

If there are issues with Talib or Dennard, Arrington goes right back to starting CB as the back up plan.

Although Arrington is not a good starter, how is this different than most teams in the league? Most teams are in the same or worse position when their starting CBs go down.

I don't have a problem with the Pats upgrading the secondary more, but to expect a back up that will be better than Arrington to step in for Talib or Dennard may be a little unrealistic.

 

[belichick010405]

You seem to ignore that the primary purpose of the draft is develop starters for the next year and the year after. Talib may be set in stone. However, he has an injury history and is signed for only one year. Having a top corner who can fill in for him or Dowling is important. Otherwise, we will likely spend another year bemoaning the fact that we didn't go far enough because of unforeseen injuries (yet again). Or, at very best, we will bemoan having to pay big money for a free agent corner in 2014.

Yea - I know that I am ignoring the primary purpose of the draft is to develop starters.

I expect Talib to sign a long-term deal following this year and this is a team that has drafted McCourty and Wilson so it is not like it is being ignored completely.

They could go corner in the 3rd round with someone like Wreh-Wilson but I am not counting on this team drafting a player in the secondary within the 1st two rounds.

I really liked Xavier Rhodes but it is clear that he is going top 20 and I am definitely not sold on the kid from Houston (Hayden) or the kid from Boise State (Taylor).

With that said - if someone like Slay, Banks, or Amerson is available at the end of the 2nd round then that could be an option or even Poyer at the end of the 3rd round instead of a positional need like wide receiver.

It will be interesting to see if BB is or wants to trade out of the 1st round based on what the teams' big board looks like.

 

[Sciz]

So, no Im not convinced the pass defense is fixed and the Pats are not winning another Super Bowl until it is fixed. Thats the bottom line.

Well the pass defense is already better than it was at the end of 2011, and they got pretty darn close to winning a Super Bowl.

 

[Rob0729]

Well the pass defense is already better than it was at the end of 2011, and they got pretty darn close to winning a Super Bowl.

And I think if the Pats sign Abraham and/or get another good pass rusher in the draft, the pass defense could be much improved. Jones and Hightower in their second year. Kelly as a pure pass rush specialist. Armstead if he can adapt to the NFL. All those have the potential to vastly improve the Pats' pass rush.

The problem with most fans, they look at this team's pass defense beginning and ending with the secondary. They seem to ignore the pass rush into the equation.

Personally, I think if the Pats can improve the pass rush, this secondary could be just fine as it is. In fact, I felt many times last year that the pass rush was far more of a problem than the people in the secondary. Deion Sanders in his prime would have had problem with coverage at times the way the Pats let opposing QBs sit back and wait for people to get open.

I see that Belichick has worked this offseason to improve the secondary and beyond the signing of Wilson. I think Tommy Kelly and Armstead will help the secondary. I think Abraham, if signed, will help the secondary.

Sorry to attach this to your post, but I kinda went off a jumping point here.

 

[belichick010405]

And I think if the Pats sign Abraham and/or get another good pass rusher in the draft, the pass defense could be much improved. Jones and Hightower in their second year. Kelly as a pure pass rush specialist. Armstead if he can adapt to the NFL. All those have the potential to vastly improve the Pats' pass rush.

The problem with most fans, they look at this team's pass defense beginning and ending with the secondary. They seem to ignore the pass rush into the equation.

Personally, I think if the Pats can improve the pass rush, this secondary could be just fine as it is. In fact, I felt many times last year that the pass rush was far more of a problem than the people in the secondary. Deion Sanders in his prime would have had problem with coverage at times the way the Pats let opposing QBs sit back and wait for people to get open.

I see that Belichick has worked this offseason to improve the secondary and beyond the signing of Wilson. I think Tommy Kelly and Armstead will help the secondary. I think Abraham, if signed, will help the secondary.

Sorry to attach this to your post, but I kinda went off a jumping point here.

I am really looking forward to seeing more stunt blitzing from the linebacking corps this year and Hightower is very good at it, especially up the middle.

Additionally, the additions of Armstead and Kelly along with the continued development of Bequette will add to the defensive lines' ability to rush the quarterback.

The Pats really like Armstead and if Armstead was in this years' draft, there is no question that he would be 1st round conversation fodder.

 

[PowerRunRevival]

I'm satisfied with the secondary. If the board falls in a way that leaves us with a great DB we should grab one. That is not to say that we should go out of our way to pick one.

 

[mgteich]

We could have 2 seconds and 2 thirds after we trade down from 29. That would allow us to draft 2 wideouts and 2 defensive backs.

Id like to see a plug and play coverage Safety added too, but there just arent enough high draft picks to also fix the WR position which is a desperate need.

So, no Im not convinced the pass defense is fixed and the Pats are not winning another Super Bowl until it is fixed. Thats the bottom line.

 

[Kontradiction]

We could have 2 seconds and 2 thirds after we trade down from 29. That would allow us to draft 2 wideouts and 2 defensive backs.

Or two WR's, a DE, and a S.

 

[JackBauer]

Or two WR's, a DE, and a S.

I still think cornerback is a bigger need than safety. Though I'm somewhat torn given the fact that McCourty can play both positions. So...I guess just take the best prospect available at the pick?

 

[captain stone]

Or one WR, one DB, one pass-rushing DLineman and one coverage OLB.

 

[supafly]

You seem to ignore that the primary purpose of the draft is develop starters for the next year and the year after. Talib may be set in stone. However, he has an injury history and is signed for only one year. Having a top corner who can fill in for him or Dowling is important. Otherwise, we will likely spend another year bemoaning the fact that we didn't go far enough because of unforeseen injuries (yet again). Or, at very best, we will bemoan having to pay big money for a free agent corner in 2014.

While I agree with this thought and our only difference of opinion has been when to take a CB/S, how does anyone explain giving 4 million AAV to what we as fans perceive to be our slot/star CB?

It would seem to me that Belichick practically expects Arrington to take some reps as an outside starter, given the specific contract. We as fans however, do not want to see this--therefore we aren't counting him as a potential starter. Belichick, on the other hand, seems to be.

 

[supafly]

I still think cornerback is a bigger need than safety. Though I'm somewhat torn given the fact that McCourty can play both positions. So...I guess just take the best prospect available at the pick?

Likely the best plan, in my opinion. Although if it's an even split I'd probably lean towards the CB.

This is all dependant upon Belichick and the coaches assessment of T.Wilson being a first string full-time starter at safety this year or not.

 

[AzPatsFan]

i wanted to start a thread on whether this is the year that the Patriots Defense comes together, and breaks out into a Top Ten Defense.

BB has been adding pieces to the Defense for 4 drafts now, and I thought I saw the Defense emerging in the 2H of 2012 only to decline in the AFCCG with injuries to four starters. They are all back healthy now, and the youngsters and newcomers have had a further chance to meet their teamates and integrate their talents.

Consider that Chandler Jones, Ninkovich, Deaderick, Love, Bequette, and Spikes, Hightower, Fletcher along with Taqib, Dowling, Cole, Dennard, Tavon Wilson, Adrian Wilson, Gregory are with this team no longer than 3 seasons, with most only two or less.

The only "long termers" are Wilfork, Cunningham, McCourty and Arrington. with the latter two or three only going into their 4th years here.

That is an awful lot of newcomers and a lot of talent. This Defense even with out any further manpower additions, needs to simply jell, and I predict it will this season. I think the talent is manifest in the past two seasons of league leader turnover stats; and the rising sack totals. The number of three and outs has been steadily climbing too. Have you noticed how good the run Defense has become?

Every level of the Defense now has producers and depth. Look at the D-line. There used totbe only one pass rusher. Now there are three proven ones in Jones, Ninko and Kelly along with the possibilities in Armstead and Bequette and the blitzing from Spikes and Hightower.

I could see the passing Offense decline somwhat, but the team as a whole is more balanced.

At linebacker the Pats were constantly looking for simply enugh starters. Now they have Mayo, Spinks, and Hightower with Fletcher and Ninkovitch as spares and even Adrian Wilson available to play coverage LB and/or box SS.

In the secondary, they used to simply look for enough starters. Now they have three young proven ones in Taqib, Dennard and Arrington and can call on Dowling and McCourty in a pinch before degrading to playing a ST, Cole. The similar situation applies at Safety with two pair in McCourty and Gregory and a second pair in Tavon and Adrian with the Rugby player for levity.

I'd love to add a DT and a DE and a CB, but I really don't think it is absolutely necessary.