RFA Emmanuel Sanders visits Pats 3/16; signs offer sheet 4/10, sheet matched 4/14

[jmt57]

Here's hoping that Rapoport knows that Sanders is already counting $1.323 million against the Steelers cap.

Is he worth another $1.177 million in cap space and the possibility that he walks in 2014?

The latest from Rapoport:

As many noted: Steelers$1.9M in room assumes $1.3M in Sanders' original tender (my mistake). They could match additional $1.2M. Will they?​

 

[The Scrizz]

This makes sense I guess--they're making a tepid offer because they have only moderate interest, and will have him at a low price but no more. BUT what's strange is that they're also willing to part with the 3rd rounder, which seems inconsistent with this... The offer seems like "flyer" money on a UFA vet, but Sanders' RFA status and the associated draft pick would seem (?) to indicate significant interest. And if there's significant interest why not just offer more (it's just a one-year dear after all) to make it more painful for Pitt to match?

The whole thing just seems odd to me. One thing's for sure, I wouldn't feel super-confident if I were Sanders and ultimately ended up in NE--basically NE would have said they want me on a low-cost, trial basis only, and Pitt will have effectively said that they value an unknown #91 draft pick more than me.

As I mentioned earlier, the important thing about the offer isn't the dollars, it's the length. Steelers have to know that if they match for one year, that's all they're going to get out of him. So do they take a 3rd now or let him walk next year.

The Pats are sitting on inside information because I have no doubt that they have discussed lengthening the deal if the Steelers pass. They know what it would take to get him signed to a longer deal while the Steelers have no clue.

Maybe I'm giving the Pats too much credit for a well thought out strategy but if Sanders becomes a Pat and doesn't get an extension I will change my name to The Scrizz is a Moron.

This is all meaningless in the greater scheme that is the resigning of Julian 'The Scrizz's' binkie for years' Edelman.

 

[JMC00]

They could still restructure some of their players contracts to get it done. It wouldn't be that difficult.

That's a little different than expecting them to.

 

[lillloyd]

I'm thinking the fact that the Pats would also lose that 3rd round pick has a lot to do with what would appear to be the relatively low offer, as it would be part of what they are giving up to sign him. They see the value of $2.5 million of cap space, plus the value of a 3rd round pick. If he was an unrestricted free agent then they likely would offer more.

As for it only being a one-year offer, perhaps that was because it would be that much easier for the Steelers to match a long term deal? With a longer contract more of the money could be pushed off to future years; with this offer it is more difficult for the Steelers to match it.



FWIW, there is also this from Albert Breer:

Circled back and checked on incentives or anything else attached to the Sanders offer sheet ... Nothing. Just a one-year, $2.5M deal​

​

That first part makes sense -- basically he's valued at the combination of the draft pick plus the 2.5 million. So the "aggregate" offer makes the actual $$ offer consistent with significant (if not overwhelming) interest on the part of the Patriots.

The second part, I don't know. The way they've structured the existing offer, Pitt literally doesn't have to do *anything* to fit Sanders under the cap, when you factor in that Sanders already counts 1.3 million against it... If the one-year term was to make it harder for Pitt by keeping them from pushing money into future years, they've simultaneously eliminated whatever advantage they get from that with an offer that is so low that Pitt can already match it without restructures, etc. See below...

Patriots Offer Sheet Signed By Steelers WR Emmanuel Sanders Only $2.5 Million, Not $4 Million | Steelers Depot


I'm starting to think we're all just WAY overthinking this. Maybe the Pats simply have a value they've assigned to Sanders--a player they like but don't LOVE--and made a corresponding offer, not really factoring in too much about salary cap ramifications or "screwing" Pittsburgh, understanding that Pitt for all its cap woes could match any reasonable offer with some maneuvering if they really wanted to keep him. In other words, maybe the salary cap never really was a big discussion point, because the Pats were never considering offering Sanders the amount of $$ it would take to truly mess with Pitt's salary cap, or truly prevent them from matching.

 

[lillloyd]

They could still restructure some of their players contracts to get it done. It wouldn't be that difficult.

If the 2.5 million figure is correct, no restructuring would be necessary, since Sanders already counts 1.2 mill against the cap.

That's what's interesting about the $2.5 million number--for all the talk about screwing the Steelers against the cap and forcing difficult decisions, this number doesn't actually force them to do anything in terms of restructuring or cutting. They already have the headroom.

"This difference in amount really changes my opinion on the whole situation. In fact, the Steelers already have enough cap room to afford matching that offer sheet without doing anything else. After all, it's not even an extra $1.2 million over this $1.323 million tender."​

(from Steelers Depot: Patriots Offer Sheet Signed By Steelers WR Emmanuel Sanders Only $2.5 Million, Not $4 Million | Steelers Depot)

 

[VJCPatriot]

I'm starting to think we're all just WAY overthinking this. Maybe the Pats simply have a value they've assigned to Sanders--a player they like but don't LOVE--and made a corresponding offer, not really factoring in too much about salary cap ramifications or "screwing" Pittsburgh, understanding that Pitt for all its cap woes could match any reasonable offer with some maneuvering if they really wanted to keep him. In other words, maybe the salary cap never really was a big discussion point, because the Pats were never considering offering Sanders the amount of $$ it would take to truly mess with Pitt's salary cap, or truly prevent them from matching.

Well the Pats aren't going to try to screw with Pittsburgh to the extent that it will screw up their OWN salary structure if the Steelers don't match. I think the Pats plan is that if Pittsburgh passes, then they will extend Sanders to a multi-year deal working off the base of 2.5 and increasing each year.

They seem to like to lock up the younger/hitting their prime players to cap-friendly deals. Essentially if this goes through, you are looking at another Welker sized contract (the one he got coming from Miami) that ends up being a bargain down the road. To the Pats this is worth giving up the 3rd round pick. It all makes sense from a cap and team-building standpoint.

Now lets see if Pittsburgh matches or if they prefer to have room to sign OTHER players to their team plus that nifty 3rd round pick in this year's draft.

 

[50-yard-line]

I think Pitt might well let him walk and take the pick. They're going nowhere this year, have to reload and will be in salary cap hell next year, so why add another UFA?

They'll take the third and hope it pans out. I almost wonder if the Pats and Pitt hadn't whispered about this, office to office. I really think this might be a good deal for both sides, given the cap issues and the Pats' glaring hole at WR.

 

[Patsgofor4]

If the 2.5 million figure is correct, no restructuring would be necessary, since Sanders already counts 1.2 mill against the cap.

That's what's interesting about the $2.5 million number--for all the talk about screwing the Steelers against the cap and forcing difficult decisions, this number doesn't actually force them to do anything in terms of restructuring or cutting. They already have the headroom.

"This difference in amount really changes my opinion on the whole situation. In fact, the Steelers already have enough cap room to afford matching that offer sheet without doing anything else. After all, it's not even an extra $1.2 million over this $1.323 million tender."​

(from Steelers Depot: Patriots Offer Sheet Signed By Steelers WR Emmanuel Sanders Only $2.5 Million, Not $4 Million | Steelers Depot)

Yes, they could sign Sanders with the money they still have available and use Colon's savings to sign all of their draft picks BUT they would still be left with a team with several holes that won't likely be able to compete with the Patriots, Broncos and, possibly, the Ravens next year. They will need additional cap $$ to sign vet FAs, in order to fill some of those holes/weaknesses. Do they really want to restructure 2-3 more contract and, therefore, pass the cap pain into 2014 and 2015, without sginificant jumps in the cap limit the next couple of years. If Sanders then leaves as an UFA next year, would matching the offer have been a wise move?

 

[belichick010405]

It is worth noting that the offer that has been reportedly made to Sanders is nearly equivalent to the cap relief that is also going to come from the Fanene issue as well.

I took a like at the Steelers cap situation and unless they restructure someone like Ike Taylor, Heath Miller Ryan Clark and/or Brett Keisel, it is going to be next to impossible for the Steelers to match this offer.

 

[Deus Irae]

It is worth noting that the offer that has been reportedly made to Sanders is nearly equivalent to the cap relief that is also going to come from the Fanene issue as well.

I took a like at the Steelers cap situation and unless they restructure someone like Ike Taylor, Heath Miller Ryan Clark and/or Brett Keisel, it is going to be next to impossible for the Steelers to match this offer.

The Steelers have enough cap space, right now, to match the $2.5 million offer. No restructures are necessary.

 

[Patsgofor4]

It is worth noting that the offer that has been reportedly made to Sanders is nearly equivalent to the cap relief that is also going to come from the Fanene issue as well.

I took a like at the Steelers cap situation and unless they restructure someone like Ike Taylor, Heath Miller Ryan Clark and/or Brett Keisel, it is going to be next to impossible for the Steelers to match this offer.

As an aside, anyone know when the hearings about Fanene will occur? I don't think that addition cap room is assured, by any means. The ruling last month basically just said that the Patriots can go forward with their case.

 

[belichick010405]

» Over the Cap- Pittsburgh Steelers 2013 Salary Cap Page

No - they don't.

The Steelers have enough cap space, right now, to match the $2.5 million offer. No restructures are necessary.

 

[Deus Irae]

» Over the Cap- Pittsburgh Steelers 2013 Salary Cap Page

No - they don't.

Yes, they do, as others have already demonstrated. Scroll up.


2.191 million
+ 1.323 million

= 3.514 million

 

[belichick010405]

Ok - I have read this thread and it is important to understand that while they have $3.514 million in cap space due to Foster and the current Sanders tender that they have draft picks and other needs (i.e. offensive line depth) that may need to be addressed through free agency which may count against their top 51. Technically, they may have the cap space. In reality, they don't because of what their future obligations are going to be.

Yes, they do, as others have already demonstrated. Scroll up.


2.191 million
+ 1.323 million

= 3.514 million

 

[Deus Irae]

Ok - I have read this thread and it is important to understand that while they have $3.514 million in cap space due to Foster and the current Sanders tender that they have draft picks and other needs (i.e. offensive line depth) that may need to be addressed through free agency which may count against their top 51. Technically, they may have the cap space. In reality, they don't because of what their future obligations are going to be.

Colon has been released as a post-June 1 designation - he is free to sign with another team, however nothing about his cap number changes for now. But come June, the team can get $5.5M in cap space for this year by pushing the rest of the hit into 2014.

Steelers release guard Willie Colon - Behind the Steel Curtain

 

[Patsgofor4]

Steelers release guard Willie Colon - Behind the Steel Curtain

Yes and they can use Colon's savings to sign their draft picks....and they will still have a mediocre roster with no cap space left.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes and they can use Colon's savings to sign their draft picks....and they will still have a mediocre roster with no cap space left.

Your evaluation of the Steelers' roster is what it is, but my point is simply that, assuming the numbers we're all using are correct, the Steelers can match the $2.5 million offer to Sanders without having to do any restructuring.

 

[belichick010405]

Yes - I know about the $5.5 million that is going to come available from Colon.

It doesn't matter......They have far too many holes on their roster to do a deal with Sanders particularly at Safety, Defensive Line, Offensive Line depth, backup quarterback, and tight end.

Never mind the fact, that if you look at the Steelers cap situation into 2014, they have a number of key free agents coming up again.

In all likelihood, the Steelers will opt for the 3rd round pick and move forward.

 

[lillloyd]

Ok - I have read this thread and it is important to understand that while they have $3.514 million in cap space due to Foster and the current Sanders tender that they have draft picks and other needs (i.e. offensive line depth) that may need to be addressed through free agency which may count against their top 51. Technically, they may have the cap space. In reality, they don't because of what their future obligations are going to be.

The draft picks will be covered by the money that will come free on June 1 (due to the Willie Colon release).

As far as other needs go, undoubtedly Pitt would like to add depth...but I think the point here is that the NE offer is so low (essentially, only adding $1.2 million to Pitt's salary cap, when you factor in Sanders' existing $1.3 million tender) that it's probably not enough to change Pittsburgh's approach. The $1.2 million Pitt would save by letting go of Sanders (and maybe less than that due to the salary of the extra 3rd rd pick?) probably amounts to a single, nondescript FA signing when you consider the vet minimum.

I really believe this decision ultimately will have very little to do with cap room--there's just not enough $$ involved. It just boils down to how much Pitt values that 3rd rounder, relative to a promising but somewhat injury-prone WR (who could still walk after this year)

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes - I know about the $5.5 million that is going to come available from Colon.

It doesn't matter......They have far too many holes on their roster to do a deal with Sanders particularly at Safety, Defensive Line, Offensive Line depth, backup quarterback, and tight end.

Never mind the fact, that if you look at the Steelers cap situation into 2014, they have a number of key free agents coming up again.

In all likelihood, the Steelers will opt for the 3rd round pick and move forward.

:bricks:

I took a like at the Steelers cap situation and unless they restructure someone like Ike Taylor, Heath Miller Ryan Clark and/or Brett Keisel, it is going to be next to impossible for the Steelers to match this offer.

Assuming the published numbers are accurate, you were wrong. The numbers prove it. Just let it die.