Report: Welker won't be franchised

[The_Riddler]

Why would we draft a smaller, slot receiver who will not be as good at that as Welker? Wouldn't a bigger and faster receiver be a better fit for our needs. AHern and Vereen can move the sticks in the short-passing game. Along with Gronk. If you have more speed outside, in theory it should open things up for them.

Yes, I agree with you. A bigger outside WR is clearly the higher priority, but a lot of things as we know come to finances and Austin is an explosive slot playmaker who in time could very well be as good as Welker all on a rookie contract. Not to mention the ST teams benefit he would bring.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I love Wes, but do you really think he poses the same type of threat as those receivers? Danny Woodhead might have better stats than Earl Campbell one year, but i don't think that would mean he is a "better" runningback or substitute. Welker is a short slot receiver who is the best at what he does, but a direct comparison with those players is pointless.

Value per cap dollar spent he outproduces them by a mile while allowing you to have the kind of QB you can win with. Fitz and CJ can't make their teams better absent a franchise QB. Welker helped this team win 11 games with Cassel under center... They cost twice as much as he could have been signed for.

I hate it when Borges is right but he nailed this one. Basically flushing out what this former agent laid out on NFP back in January.

Patriot games | National Football Post

WELKER

From here on out when players hold out or call Kraft names I'm going to support their actions. Because guys who try and meet them half way get **** on. And that does more internal damage in the locker room than any player cautioning teamates to get yours.

Someone commenting on Borges article said Kraft reminded him of a politician's saying that when he wasn't kissing babies he was stealing their lollipops.

Welker wanted a deal similar to what Vince and Mankins got. $18-20M in signing bonus (Mankins actually got $30M guaranteed) and $8M+ AAV. Welker said they offered him less than $16M guaranteed after the 2011 season. That was because they weren't really offering him that 2 year deal apart from adding it to his remaining 2011 season at $2.15M which would have resulted in a 3 year $18M deal or $6M per. So the guaranteed or signing bonus money last season was likely reduced to $12M. The agent did say they remained about $6M apart...

This isn't about lawyers screwing things up or an unrealistic player looking for top tier money which at the WR position is $12-16M per with $25M-50M guaranteed. I know Welker loves playing with Brady and his teamates but (being as I tend to be vindictive in similar situations) if I were him I wouldn't even take their phone calls at this point. Same thing that happened with Adam. Insulting offer to the guy you were certain you could get away with it on.

 

[supafly]

I love Wes, but do you really think he poses the same type of threat as those receivers? Danny Woodhead might have better stats than Earl Campbell one year, but i don't think that would mean he is a "better" runningback or substitute. Welker is a short slot receiver who is the best at what he does, but a direct comparison with those players is pointless.

Of course he out produces Fitzgerald, the dude is playing with scrubs like Kolb, Skelton, Lindley, etc.. And I hope to god you're talking about a different C. Johnson. I refuse to believe you think Welker brings a similar game to the field as Megatron.

It's a difference of opinions, but a strong argument could be made.

No one else has had 5/6 100+ receptions in the past six years, and Welker not only leads all receivers in the NFL during that span, but he does it very easily as the only other receiver is 80 catches away.

He doesn't need to "pose a threat" on the outside, as you say. He constantly beats double team coverage and keeps opposing DC's up all week trying to gameplan around him.

It isn't as simple as the argument of "yeah, but he can't beat someone on the outside." What Welker does is something that no other receiver has been able to do on a consistent basis.

If he wasn't in their category than how did he lead the entire NFL in YACs again this season? He may not have the same skillset as Fitzgerald and C.Johnson, but they don't have the same skillset as Wes Welker either.

 

[Helmet2Helmet]

It's a difference of opinions, but a strong argument could be made.

No one else has had 5/6 100+ receptions in the past six years, and Welker not only leads all receivers in the NFL during that span, but he does it very easily as the only other receiver is 80 catches away.

He doesn't need to "pose a threat" on the outside, as you say. He constantly beats double team coverage and keeps opposing DC's up all week trying to gameplan around him.

It isn't as simple as the argument of "yeah, but he can't beat someone on the outside." What Welker does is something that no other receiver has been able to do on a consistent basis.

If he wasn't in their category than how did he lead the entire NFL in YACs again this season? He may not have the same skillset as Fitzgerald and C.Johnson, but they don't have the same skillset as Wes Welker either.

Please stop looking at stats and take off the Patriot homer glasses. Have you even spent time watching Fitzgerald or Johnson play? Their talent is in a league of their own, Welker does not compare as a receiver.

I'm truly shocked that someone is actually trying to compare Welker to Megatron / Fitz based off number of receptions.

 

[Deus Irae]

Please stop looking at stats and take off the Patriot homer glasses. Have you even spent time watching Fitzgerald or Johnson play? Their talent is in a league of their own, Welker does not compare as a receiver.

I'm truly shocked that someone is actually trying to compare Welker to Megatron / Fitz based off number of receptions.

So a guy who says he hopes that Welker isn't brought back doesn't want comparisons made when they point out Welker's strengths.



I, too, am "truly shocked".

 

[Sticky Caulk]

Please stop looking at stats and take off the Patriot homer glasses. Have you even spent time watching Fitzgerald or Johnson play? Their talent is in a league of their own, Welker does not compare as a receiver.

I'm truly shocked that someone is actually trying to compare Welker to Megatron / Fitz based off number of receptions.

Have you watched anything but ESPN highlights? Your posts are mind numbingly dumb.

 

[Helmet2Helmet]

Value per cap dollar spent he outproduces them by a mile while allowing you to have the kind of QB you can win with. Fitz and CJ can't make their teams better absent a franchise QB. Welker helped this team win 11 games with Cassel under center... They cost twice as much as he could have been signed for.

You may have forgot but that 11 win team was 18-1 the previous year. The 2012 Lions and Cardinals had a fraction of ability the 2008 team had. You really think the Lions would have a better record this year if they replaced Johnson with Welker? LOL...

 

[Rob0729]

Not much of surprise. Never thought Welker would be franchised.

I don't know if the market will be great for him or not though. Either teams will believe he is a product of Brady and the system and too old to get a big deal especially with the hits he takes or they will be all over him trying to get him. I think people are jumping the gun think it will be one way or the other.

Unfortunately, it will only take one team to overvalue him to make him too rich for the Patriots blood.

But people slammed the Pats in the past for the way they handled contracts like Wilfork and others and they worked out. Rarely, have their hardball tactics really blown up on them. Hopefully this won't be exception to the rule.

Then again, the Pats may be ready to move on from Welker and may decide another WR on the market is what they want to change their ever changing offense. We are a month away from free agency and there is no use killing the team until we see the chips fall. For all we know, Welker could be re-signed before free agency even begins.

I always wait for all the chips to fall before I make judgements. It is too easy to jump the gun with reports like these especially by a guy with an agenda against Belichick.

 

[Sticky Caulk]

Unfortunately, it will only take one team to overvalue him to make him too rich for the Patriots blood.

This is what really worries me about Welker hitting free agency.

I got to believe a decent amount of teams will see what Welker has done for the Patriots offense and hope it translates to theirs. Once GMs consider he's been a part of two of the top four single season offenses of all time.. Welker could realistically end up with a huge overpay from a team trying to take a shot at the Super Bowl next season.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

I thought that was a BB policy, not to franchise a player twice.

Didn't they apply the tag to Adam V. in 2002 and 2005???

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You may have forgot but that 11 win team was 18-1 the previous year. The 2012 Lions and Cardinals had a fraction of ability the 2008 team had. You really think the Lions would have a better record this year if they replaced Johnson with Welker? LOL...

What you fail to comprehend is if they'd had a player like welker producing for pennies on the dollar over the last 5 years maybe they would have been in position to secure a better QB or not be left to draft one with a #1. For all their supposed superior talent expensive, elite WR's don't tend to elevate those around them or lead their teams to winning seasons quite the way elite QB's and even those who only think they're elite with all manner of scrappy WR's do.

 

[Rob0729]

Didn't they apply the tag to Adam V. in 2002 and 2005???

I think franchise tag rules are different now. I don't know if Vinatieri got a 20% raise on the second franchise tag like Welker will. Plus you are talking kicker money vs. WR money on the franchise tender.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Didn't they apply the tag to Adam V. in 2002 and 2005???

He meant back to back, but I don't think it's a policy so much as it's just not cost effective as the cost goes up by 20%.

And Adam only played under the tag in 2005. In 2002 they just used it as a place saver. They signed him to a three year extension a week or two later.

 

[Helmet2Helmet]

What you fail to comprehend is if they'd had a player like welker producing for pennies on the dollar over the last 5 years maybe they would have been in position to secure a better QB or not be left to draft one with a #1. For all their supposed superior talent expensive, elite WR's don't tend to elevate those around them or lead their teams to winning seasons quite the way elite QB's and even those who only think they're elite with all manner of scrappy WR's do.

Wow, a bunch of, "what ifs.." What an impressive argument.

If the Lions had a cheap receiver and didn't have to spend a first on a QB then maybe they would have won more!

Hahaha, comedy gold right here. And did you know, elite WRs don't elevate their team like elite QBs! Really, thanks Sherlock Holmes.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think franchise tag rules are different now. I don't know if Vinatieri got a 20% raise on the second franchise tag like Welker will. Plus you are talking kicker money vs. WR money on the franchise tender.

Vinatieri didn't. It used to be back to back only for the 120%. Some ambiguous language change in the new CBA allowed Brees to prevail on the concept that it need not be back to back. That was never the league's intent. Score one for the union (inadvertently, courtesy of the lawyers).

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Wow, a bunch of, "what ifs.." What an impressive argument.

If the Lions had a cheap receiver and didn't have to spend a first on a QB then maybe they would have won more!

Hahaha, comedy gold right here. And did you know, elite WRs don't elevate their team like scrappy WRs! Hilarious!

There is actually quite a bit of data to back that up...as in the number of them who departed the game sans ring.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Vinatieri didn't. It used to be back to back only for the 120%. Some ambiguous language change in the new CBA allowed Brees to prevail on the concept that it need not be back to back. That was never the league's intent. Score one for the union (inadvertently, courtesy of the lawyers).

That wasn't the issue with Brees.

The question with Brees was a clause in the CBA regarding the *third* time a player is franchised (and, IIRC, whether it's the third time a single team franchises a player, or the third time a player is franchised, period). If Welker had been franchised before, he'd be getting only the franchise number or 20% above his 2012 salary, whichever is greater.

He meant back to back, but I don't think it's a policy so much as it's just not cost effective as the cost goes up by 20%.

And Adam only played under the tag in 2005. In 2002 they just used it as a place saver. They signed him to a three year extension a week or two later.

Could be the same here: if the Pats do franchise anyone this offseason, I expect it'll be as a prelude to a long-term deal.

 

[ausbacker]

Please stop looking at stats and take off the Patriot homer glasses. Have you even spent time watching Fitzgerald or Johnson play? Their talent is in a league of their own, Welker does not compare as a receiver.

I'm truly shocked that someone is actually trying to compare Welker to Megatron / Fitz based off number of receptions.

Why are you arguing against production? The numbers clearly state Welker is every bit as productive as Fitzgerald and Megatron. The eye test also confirms this.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

What about stallworth, will we see him next year??? That one game and catch looked good to me.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

Welker will be back though. He and Brady click, he will sign after he feels free agency. I am 100% confident welker is here to stay.