Colts Part Ways With Dwight Freeney

[Froob]

Here are my comments on the Charles Woodson thread. They apply to Freeney too:

I don't know. I'm tired of the Pats picking up other teams' aging stars and trying to squeeze a few more good years out of them, often with mixed results (which look like this - older guy comes in, looks good in camp, looks like he's going to be great, oops, injury, just can't get back to form, after teasing us for a while). Is it too much to ask that they go into the draft and get a stud that can start young and healthy here and be here for years to come? It's been a while since Rodney Harrison joined the team.

It's not easy to just draft a stud. They only have one 1st and one 2nd. Why would signing Freeney for cheap be a bad idea? 32 isn't that old. If getting a young stud was that easy why would anybody sign veteran free agents?

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I'll be the first to say it....

Can he rush the passer?







.......anymore?

 

[Kontradiction]

Send that bad boy this way. Put his hand on the turf in subpackages and rotate him in and out with Ninkovich.

 

[Sciz]

He played 66% of the Colts' defensive snaps last season despite missing two games. So in the games that he did play, he played roughly 75% of the defensive snaps. That's way too much. I think Freeney is a guy who could definitely benefit from the Mark Anderson "less is more" strategy. Let him play the 35% or so of the snaps on second and long, third and mid/long, and late game with a lead and don't make him play the run. At this point in his career, I'm sure Freeney would rather just worry about rushing the passer, and accepting a part-time role would also help him squeeze every last year out of the end of his career. Price is obviously a big deal with a guy who's playing somewhere around a third of the defensive snaps, but I think something like $3M could be fair for both sides as long as he doesn't have interest in signing with the Jags or Raiders for $10M a year.

 

[Claremonster]

I'll be the first to say it....

Can he rush the passer?







.......anymore?

He can spin...

 

[Marqui]

I'd definitely take him at a discount for a limited pass rushing role.

 

[upstater1]

Give him 30 plays a game rushing the passer and live with it if the other team decides to try a draw on 2nd and 8.

If he's willing to play subpackages, bring him in.

Why was he cut? His huge contract. Why are his numbers down? He's getting a bit older and Indy changed its system to 3-4.

He's still good.

Oh, and he turned 33.

 

[RayClay]

He's done and has always been overrated because he spins five yards out to get a shot at the QB while the running back just blitzkreig up through his gap that he completely ignores. People like sacks and think splash sacks make up for complete ineptitude 90% of the game where he does nothing and is a liability against the run.

He is Ninkovich except older

This doesn't even make sense internally.

You're saying Ninkovich is just a pass rushing specialist who ignores his other responsibilities.

 

[RayClay]

I doubt he's affordable, but if he is he would be a boost to our current defense until the young guys gain some seasoning.

I really doubt he's worth($$) the limited role he'd get here though.

 

[Ring 6]

I doubt he's affordable, but if he is he would be a boost to our current defense until the young guys gain some seasoning.

I really doubt he's worth($$) the limited role he'd get here though.

Well he might well get more $ than we are willing to pay, or should be, because its not about 'signing the beast' its about how much more is he worth than the other alternatives.
But I disagree with you on the value of his role.

He would be our most disruptive pass rusher, and hopefully Jones will develop to the level where he contends for that honor, which only make both more valuable.
We play over 60% sub. Freeney would, IMO, play something like 30-35 snaps a game. First off, having him on the field on first down, may influence teams to run more on 1st down, which is in our favor. We have enough stout run defenders in the front 7 to absorb his weakness.

But lets just limit it to 2nd and long, 3rd down, 2 minutes D, and playing from ahead when the other team must throw.
Those are, far and away, the situations that our defense has been worst in.
Those get him 30 snaps a game anyway.
The guy who can be a disruptive pass rusher in those situations is definitely more important than many players that play full time. I would put a guy who can EXCEL in that role in the top 15, and more likely top 10 most valuable pieces on the team.

 

[Ring 6]

This doesn't even make sense internally.

You're saying Ninkovich is just a pass rushing specialist who ignores his other responsibilities.

You are, of course, correct here, Ninkovich is actually the polar opposite of that.

One nit to pick though. Freeney doesn't IGNORE his other responsibilities, Freeney has played in a scheme that told him he only had 1 responsibility.
Now I don't think he would be much of a run defender if he tried, but its not accurate to portray him as willfullly ignoring run D when his coach told him his job was to ignore it.

 

[tonyto3690]

This doesn't even make sense internally.

You're saying Ninkovich is just a pass rushing specialist who ignores his other responsibilities.

No I'm saying Ninkovich is poor against the run and rarely is able to pressure the QB and his 1 splash play a game makes fans think he's a great player.

Freeney is done. Even in his prime he couldn't stop the run. This past season he couldn't even rush the passer and we're better off with Ninkovich- a guy we need to upgrade at some point.

There is probably no pass rusher in our generation that influenced pass defense more than Freeney. Between double teaming and accounting for him, QBs getting rid of the ball more quickly because he got close and the actual sacks and hits, to say Freeney affected only the plays he had sacks on is ignorant.

It is equally ignorant to say the Freeney playing in a system that told him to rush the passer on every snap, and then find the ball carrier if it happens to be a run, makes teams running past him while he is in a pass rush move his fault.
I severely doubt his run D skills but to criticize him for spinning out of the play when he was coached to do so is silly.

Julius Peppers, Demarcus Ware, Warren Sapp, Jason Taylor, James Harrison, Jared Allen are all guys off the top of my head who both were equal or better pass rushers while still not being massive liabilities against the run.

I'm not saying he only effected plays he had sacks, I'm saying he gets hype because of those sacks and is complete 1 minded focus to getting sacks. I'm sure if you told Jones and Ninkovich "ignore the run, rush the passer" they would have had significantly more success this season in that regard. Belichick has always maintained that we need to stop the run first, then the pass.

It's not like every play he ever played he was told to rush the passer. There were times he was asked to stop the run and he would get pushed back five yards. While there is truth to what you're saying in that the consistency of his poor run defense is because of coaching, lets not kid ourselves and act like if he came to New England he'd suddenly be better at it. Last season he was asked to stop the run and rush the passer and guess what? He was freaking horrible and had next to zero effect on the game. He couldn't even get his splash plays.

This doesn't even make sense internally.

You're saying Ninkovich is just a pass rushing specialist who ignores his other responsibilities.

No I'm saying Ninkovich is poor against the run and rarely is able to pressure the QB and his 1 splash play a game makes fans think he's a great player.

Freeney is done. Even in his prime he couldn't stop the run. This past season he couldn't even rush the passer and we're better off with Ninkovich- a guy we need to upgrade at some point.

 

[tonyto3690]

You are, of course, correct here, Ninkovich is actually the polar opposite of that.

One nit to pick though. Freeney doesn't IGNORE his other responsibilities, Freeney has played in a scheme that told him he only had 1 responsibility.
Now I don't think he would be much of a run defender if he tried, but its not accurate to portray him as willfullly ignoring run D when his coach told him his job was to ignore it.

No, he is wrong and misunderstood the point, just like you have. Ninkovich is overrated because of his 2 plays a game he does manage to do something. The other 95% of the time he is being pushed around at the LOS or being stone walled as a pass rusher.

Anyways, Freeney is completely shot. I've seen him willfully try to stop the run plenty of times and he always ended up being a massive liability. They didn't ask him not to try to stop the run because they were content giving up 5 YPC every season, it's because he COULDNT EVEN IF THEY WANTED HIM TO. So they just rolled with the one thing he was good at - rushing the QB.

 

[RayClay]

You are, of course, correct here, Ninkovich is actually the polar opposite of that.

One nit to pick though. Freeney doesn't IGNORE his other responsibilities, Freeney has played in a scheme that told him he only had 1 responsibility.
Now I don't think he would be much of a run defender if he tried, but its not accurate to portray him as willfullly ignoring run D when his coach told him his job was to ignore it.

I agree with that, though i didn't address your point, I don't think.

I think it's questionable how much Feeney would play in our defense, though, given the likelihood he won't come cheap.

 

[RayClay]

No I'm saying Ninkovich is poor against the run and rarely is able to pressure the QB and his 1 splash play a game makes fans think he's a great player.

Freeney is done. Even in his prime he couldn't stop the run. This past season he couldn't even rush the passer and we're better off with Ninkovich- a guy we need to upgrade at some point.

I think characterizing Nincovich as poor against the run and making one splashy play a game, is about the opposite of his strength, which is as a dependable versatile DE who also makes a big play once in a while.

Again, Freeney and Mathis were tasked with pressuring the QB at all costs. they didn't care if you wanted to run the ball because they assumed Peyton could outgun any team with points. This led to some embarrassing games such as the Denver game in their championship season where Denver just ran down the field and they were forced to acquire Booger McFarland as an emergency stop gap.

I doubt we intend to replace Ninkovich with Freeney so we can stop the run.

 

[tonyto3690]

I think characterizing Nincovich as poor against the run and making one splashy play a game, is about the opposite of his strength, which is as a dependable versatile DE who also makes a big play once in a while.

Again, Freeney and Mathis were tasked with pressuring the QB at all costs. they didn't care if you wanted to run the ball because they assumed Peyton could outgun any team with points. This led to some embarrassing games such as the Denver game in their championship season where Denver just ran down the field and they were forced to acquire Booger McFarland as an emergency stop gap.

I doubt we intend to replace Ninkovich with Freeney so we can stop the run.

While I agree that part of it was the scheme telling them to focus on rushing the passer, you're kidding yourself if you think Freeney was even mediocre as a run defender even when he wanted. He's never been able to do that.

You still aren't getting the point with the comparison to Ninkovich. Freeney is completely shot. This ridiculous notion that he'd come in and be even an Anderson calibre pass rusher is absurd. He is completely shot. He was completely shot in 2010 and it hasn't gotten any better. His entire game was predicated on speed and he no longer has that.

The comparison to Ninkovich is that he'd be comparable/worse as a pass rusher and even worse than Ninkovich as a run defender. Ninkovich is our starter and we don't have the luxury of enough picks/cap space to be looking to upgrade him, and even if we did Freeney is DEFINITELY not the solution. Freeney would be a step back and cost more.

I mean I saw people comparing Freeney to Andre Carter a couple years ago which is laughable. Freeney now is comparable to Andre Carter in 2017. Carter could stop the run and rush the passer, he just needed to have his hand in the ground and couldn't play the 34. Freeney can't stop the run (and never could even when he tried which is why the scheme was designed for him to pass rush first, not out of some moronic belief giving up 6 YPC is a winning strategy), and is a mediocre pass rusher at best now.

Just no. There is absolutely no reason to bring him in. Overpriced, overrated, doesn't fit the scheme, is old, always injured, over the hill, completely shot. I'd rather bring back Rodney back than sign Freeney.

 

[VJCPatriot]

He is nothing like the Andre Carter situation.

He would be the Andre Carter situation if we wanted to bring Andre Carter back in 2018.

He's done and has always been overrated because he spins five yards out to get a shot at the QB while the running back just blitzkreig up through his gap that he completely ignores. People like sacks and think splash sacks make up for complete ineptitude 90% of the game where he does nothing and is a liability against the run.

He is Ninkovich except older, more expensive, has a narrower role value and a million times worse against the run, as impossible as that may seem.

No.

No.

No.

A million times, no.

Even if that were true. He is capable of getting the pressure on the QB on 3rd downs. I don't have a problem with signing Freeney as a 3rd down specialist so long as the pay is reasonable for the role. I can see double digit sacks from Freeney even if he were used only on obvious passing downs.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Even if that were true. He is capable of getting the pressure on the QB on 3rd downs. I don't have a problem with signing Freeney as a 3rd down specialist so long as the pay is reasonable for the role. I can see double digit sacks from Freeney even if he were used only on obvious passing downs.

Won't happen. He'll get overpaid by a couple of the 32 GMs fighting for his services. No vet min or anything in the ballpark here. It's fantasy to think otherwise.

 

[Deus Irae]

People who want every player signed should just do the math first. Right now, the Patriots either have to sign longer deals with the re-signees, look to Mankins for a restructure and/or Wilfork & Brady for extensions, let some/all of the "big 3" of Welker/Talib/Vollmer go, or basically stick to signing minimum to near-minimum contract guys.

New England can either keep it's own top players or be moderately active in the non-minimum FA market. Without accounting games, it doesn't look as if they can do both to any great extent.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree with that, though i didn't address your point, I don't think.

I think it's questionable how much Feeney would play in our defense, though, given the likelihood he won't come cheap.

He would be the best pass rusher on a team that sucks at rushing the passer, he would play a lot.