Some Myths shattered tonight

[BradyManny]

1.) Peyton's contract will prevent the Colts from ever winning a Super Bowl.
2.) Former Pats never have success away from the Pats. See Adam, Dexter Reid and Dan Klecko.
3.) Rain would favor the Bears.
4.) Joe Addai was a reach by the Colts.
5.) The Colts will implode in 2006.

I gotta side with Seymour93 here (despite his stance on Chad Jackson) - we all truly appreciate your posts and hard work, but this really isn't the time for this "I told you so" stuff regarding the Colts. This has been a brutal two weeks for Pats fans. Come back and make this post in a few weeks and that's all fine and dandy, but as Seymour93 said, why now?

 

[jczxohn1]

1.) Peyton's contract will prevent the Colts from ever winning a Super Bowl.Other than Sanders, the Colts were relatively injury-free this year
2.) Former Pats never have success away from the Pats. See Adam, Dexter Reid and Dan Klecko.Pats ex-patriates typically leave for money, not success. These three got lucky. They are often picked up because of where they are from, not who they are.
3.) Rain would favor the Bears. ???????????
4.) Joe Addai was a reach by the Colts. Many mock drafts assumed Maroney would be gone before we drafted and had us taking Addai in the 2nd.
5.) The Colts will implode in 2006.The Colts beat us fair and square not once, but twice this year. No excuses can be made if we expect to beat them again in the next few years. We have to adjust and reload.

101010101010

 

[kolbitr]

1.) Peyton's contract will prevent the Colts from ever winning a Super Bowl.
2.) Former Pats never have success away from the Pats. See Adam, Dexter Reid and Dan Klecko.
3.) Rain would favor the Bears.
4.) Joe Addai was a reach by the Colts.
5.) The Colts will implode in 2006.

I find this sort of post beneath you. Dexter Reid? Dan Klecko? Do you really want to rub dirty and parched elbows with the likes of Bob Ryan, whose knowledge of basketball is profound, and whose knowledge of football is malnourished beyond recall?

Stooping to the LCD is pathetic, and should be avoided by anyone who aspires to the music of the spheres. And no, I do not apologize for the harsh language.

 

[CheerforTom]

1.) Peyton's contract will prevent the Colts from ever winning a Super Bowl.
2.) Former Pats never have success away from the Pats. See Adam, Dexter Reid and Dan Klecko.
3.) Rain would favor the Bears.
4.) Joe Addai was a reach by the Colts.
5.) The Colts will implode in 2006.

Most of your points are fair, but so is the fact that if a Colts fan had posted this word for word everyone on the board would call him a troll and drive him out. I'm curious why you felt the need to rub dirt in the wound of your fellow fans?

 

[wdkantro2]

1.) Peyton's contract will prevent the Colts from ever winning a Super Bowl.
2.) Former Pats never have success away from the Pats. See Adam, Dexter Reid and Dan Klecko.
3.) Rain would favor the Bears.
4.) Joe Addai was a reach by the Colts.
5.) The Colts will implode in 2006.

1- your right
2- your wrong. No player has had PERSONAL success away from the Pats. Reid is the last player on the depth chart, and Klecko is one of the last linemen. They had nothing to do with the victory.
3- your right
4- Addai is still a reach, IMO. When teams wise up and stop dropping everyone back into coverage, we will see how good Addai is.
5- I don't know who said the colts would implode in 06

 

[ATippett56]

1.) Peyton's contract will prevent the Colts from ever winning a Super Bowl.
2.) Former Pats never have success away from the Pats. See Adam, Dexter Reid and Dan Klecko.
3.) Rain would favor the Bears.
4.) Joe Addai was a reach by the Colts.
5.) The Colts will implode in 2006.

6.) Rex Grossman is a NFL quarterback

 

[mgteich]

Wiggins, Spires and Law have had personnel success. Even Milloy.

1- your right
2- your wrong. No player has had PERSONAL success away from the Pats. Reid is the last player on the depth chart, and Klecko is one of the last linemen. They had nothing to do with the victory.
3- your right
4- Addai is still a reach, IMO. When teams wise up and stop dropping everyone back into coverage, we will see how good Addai is.
5- I don't know who said the colts would implode in 06

 

[spacecrime]

Why post this right now? Are you trying to piss people off?

Colts love.

Fact is that neither Reid nor Klecko did a whole lot tonight and Mr. Clutch wasn't exactly clutch. Lucky for AV that Manning and the COlts defense did a good job. It would have been embarrassing if the Colts had lost by 2, no thanks to AV. The COlts could have won with Scott Norwood tonight. COme to think of it, Norwood's miss was from more than 36 yards.

For crying out loud, I don't recall anyone here ever saying that every team that an ex-pats team will go to will flounder. That is a total made up lie. Shame on you, Miguel. You know full well that what has been said over and over is that almost ever PLAYER that leaves the Pats will never do as well as he did with the Pats.

That pretty much sums up every ex-Pats player except Greg SPires and Jermaine Wiggins. Can't think of another, and with all the Pats playes gone (we have what? about ten guys left from SBXXXVI?) that is absolutely amazing.

Another lie is that people here said that the Colts would never win a Superbowl due to Manning'sc contract. What has been said time and again is that a) Manning is a choke artist, and b) manning's contract with its delayed money would kill the Colts. They may be saved by the big infux of money last year and next, but maybe not.

Personally, I think the huge cap hits of Manning's will shut the window on the Colts severely this year or next.

But Manning did win the big one, and the choke label can go away now. Stick with that for your happy thought of the evening and stop trying so hard prove the Pats should never had cut Dexter, Dan and Joe.

I really like and enjoy the Patscap page, but this I don't care for this made up crap.

 

[spacecrime]

Wiggins, Spires and Law have had personnel success. Even Milloy.

Only Spires and Wiggins matched or exceeded their success with the Pats. Law had a bunch of INTs but was never the factor he was with the Pats in 2001 and 2003. Milloy? Ha ha.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Other than Sanders, the Colts were relatively injury-free this year

And even with their injury free year, if either B. Sanders was out or Rodney was in two weeks ago, we're all drunk on champagne tonight.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

One other myth -- when you miss an extra point, it almost always comes back to haunt you.

Some other football truisms were reaffirmed tonight:

1) Tackling matters. Turnovers is a massively important stat. Maybe the most important. That said, it's hard for me to remember a big game where you could as the question, "who tackled better," where the answer isn't "the winners."

2) When you're ahead in a big game, take the points. Any points. Try for the 7, but not if it seriously risks getting the three. Points in big games mean options and increases dramatically your opponent's propensity to make a mistake. (The fact that one counterexample of this in maybe 5 years is the most gruelling patriots loss I can remember in recent history is something I understand by the way.)

3) Don't chase the 2 points.

4) Defense wins championships. Who'd have thunk it. The fricking colts.

 

[RayClay]

1.) Peyton's contract will prevent the Colts from ever winning a Super Bowl.
2.) Former Pats never have success away from the Pats. See Adam, Dexter Reid and Dan Klecko.
3.) Rain would favor the Bears.
4.) Joe Addai was a reach by the Colts.
5.) The Colts will implode in 2006.

Adam kicked short, (unlike Gost) leading to a TD and missed a field goal.

Reid, Klecko? Wow, we're reaching tonight. I don't think they're key factors on the colts.

 

[RayClay]

2) Vinatraitor is the only significant player there and he's just a kicker. No-one EVER said ex patriots never have success (Greg Spires) but they very rarely do.

3) The rain did favor the Bears but they suck enough that the rain wasn't even close enough to close the gap.

Wiggins has probably been the biggest success.

I think the Pats have kept the right players for the most part, unless you'd rather have Klecko than Jarvis or Mike Wright.

It is funny seeing which posters are gloating, though.

 

[Miguel]

For crying out loud, I don't recall anyone here ever saying that every team that an ex-pats team will go to will flounder.
That is a total made up lie. Shame on you, Miguel. You know full well that what has been said over and over is that almost ever PLAYER that leaves the Pats will never do as well as he did with the Pats.

Being unclear is not the same as lying.

Another lie is that people here said that the Colts would never win a Superbowl due to Manning'sc contract.

You and I have a different recall of events. Some of the posters in this thread agreed with me on this so how it could be a lie.

Personally, I think the huge cap hits of Manning's will shut the window on the Colts severely this year or next.

And yet no one on this board ever said "the Colts would never win a Superbowl due to Manning's contract ".

A poster on this board used my numbers on Manning
http://www.patsfans.com/manning.gif
to post on another board
"It doesn't make sense to say this thread is a waste and then look at the MULTITUDE of threads that have talked about what Peyton's and the offense's share of the salary cap may mean in turns of winning in the playoffs.

As has been pointed out, even in a contemporary thread, defense is an almost indisputable necessity for winning superbowls. The correlation with top defense is a very high one. As has been so aptly pointed out, you can't pick any one or even several 'stats' about defense and project very meaningfully. But that doesn't change the fact that when you look at all facets of defensive capability, defense is a hallmark characteristic of almost all SB winners. Trying to win based on big offense is a VERY low odds approach.

It is indisputable that the Colts are put together with a formula that is counter to the importance of defense. Something like 2/3 of the cap space is allocated to the offense. Draft picks alone are not enough to staff a SB defense even if you draft only defense AND if you correctly evaluate 100% on every pick (which Polian does not). And while you can find the 'gem' free agent once in a while, if the gem is not out there loose, you can't manufacture one at a bargain price.

So the formula of allocating such a huge percentage to one player, even a QB, is highly suspect and has a miniscule chance of winning championship playoff games, much less a superbowl.

On the other hand, you need more than all of your fingers and toes to count all of the pedestrian QBs that have won superbowls or have even at least gotten to the superbowl. A superstar QB is NOT necessary. A solid team including a really good defense is.

Teams have jettisoned successful fan favorite QBs and then won the SB. Other teams have held on to 'star' QBs and never gotten to or won the superbowl with them.

One thing is for sure. If you look at Manning's cap numbers and cash flow hits, they preclude building a top defense and probably even a top offensive line. On top of that, Manning has to maintain an almost unreal level of offensive production with such a key component of his production, Marvin Harrison, sunsetting. Manning's numbers not only limit defense, they ALSO limit adding high priced offensive talent ! This year may be the last chance. And how is that looking ?

There is nothing wrong whatsoever in delighting in having Manning as a QB until he retires. If that's what gives fan pleasure and Irsay get richer, it's a wonderful thing. It will be what it will be, however, for all fans."

I do not feel that it is a lie to post that thoughts similar to what was written above was posted on this board.

 

[Miguel]

1.) Other than Sanders, the Colts were relatively injury-free this year

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...nfl/stories/011207dnsponflinjury.27b777c.html

 

[gomezcat]

Being unclear is not the same as lying.


You and I have a different recall of events. Some of the posters in this thread agreed with me on this so how it could be a lie.



And yet no one on this board ever said "the Colts would never win a Superbowl due to Manning's contract ".

A poster on this board used my numbers on Manning
http://www.patsfans.com/manning.gif
to post on another board
"It doesn't make sense to say this thread is a waste and then look at the MULTITUDE of threads that have talked about what Peyton's and the offense's share of the salary cap may mean in turns of winning in the playoffs.

As has been pointed out, even in a contemporary thread, defense is an almost indisputable necessity for winning superbowls. The correlation with top defense is a very high one. As has been so aptly pointed out, you can't pick any one or even several 'stats' about defense and project very meaningfully. But that doesn't change the fact that when you look at all facets of defensive capability, defense is a hallmark characteristic of almost all SB winners. Trying to win based on big offense is a VERY low odds approach.

It is indisputable that the Colts are put together with a formula that is counter to the importance of defense. Something like 2/3 of the cap space is allocated to the offense. Draft picks alone are not enough to staff a SB defense even if you draft only defense AND if you correctly evaluate 100% on every pick (which Polian does not). And while you can find the 'gem' free agent once in a while, if the gem is not out there loose, you can't manufacture one at a bargain price.

So the formula of allocating such a huge percentage to one player, even a QB, is highly suspect and has a miniscule chance of winning championship playoff games, much less a superbowl.

On the other hand, you need more than all of your fingers and toes to count all of the pedestrian QBs that have won superbowls or have even at least gotten to the superbowl. A superstar QB is NOT necessary. A solid team including a really good defense is.

Teams have jettisoned successful fan favorite QBs and then won the SB. Other teams have held on to 'star' QBs and never gotten to or won the superbowl with them.

One thing is for sure. If you look at Manning's cap numbers and cash flow hits, they preclude building a top defense and probably even a top offensive line. On top of that, Manning has to maintain an almost unreal level of offensive production with such a key component of his production, Marvin Harrison, sunsetting. Manning's numbers not only limit defense, they ALSO limit adding high priced offensive talent ! This year may be the last chance. And how is that looking ?

There is nothing wrong whatsoever in delighting in having Manning as a QB until he retires. If that's what gives fan pleasure and Irsay get richer, it's a wonderful thing. It will be what it will be, however, for all fans."

I do not feel that it is a lie to post that thoughts similar to what was written above was posted on this board.

For the record, I'll be honest enough to admit that I thought the Colts wouldn't win a SB with Manning's cap number. One of the things that seems to have been a factor is that the offence has periods where it is practically unstoppable. Even on a day where only ducks or other aquatic wildlife should be out, they put together a pretty competent display. When Chicago blitzed, they picked it up, when they didn't blitz, they found the open guys. Their O line was excellent. My point is that, against the odds and available historical evidence, offence appears to have won them the championship.

 

[Kdo5]

AV has done nothing that Gostkowski hasnt done this year except have a higher kicking % in Domes. Gostkowski did everything he could to help us get into the playoffs and he is my rookie of the year for the Pats. He really improved from early season jitters and a terrible turf. This was just the type of year I'd expect from Vinatieri. A good year. That is all. I dont think anyone would have said AV wouldnt have any success in Indy so that wasnt a Myth. Most people who leave typically struggle or are just average. Ie. David Givens, Deion Branch, Andre Davis, David Patten. All WR's...

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

stay classy Miguel. besides being an ass you present some pretty weak arguements.

1 - the pain of the cap hit was lessened by a huge cap bump from the new CWA, a lack of great teams (unless you want to be kind to Baltimore Indy beat one great team), and relative health. Besides, only an idiot would ever say investing heavily in an all-time great QB is dumb.

2 - Reid and Klecko, eh? Wow, you got us there. This one has already been covered. Basically, you're wrong.

3 - you're again wrong. it did help the Bears, they were just too crappy to capitalize. By your logic playing in a dome favored NE in '02 because they beat St. Louis.

4 - was this really the prevailing opinion? I remember hearing that he was the third best back after Bush and Maroney and that's where he was taken. I also remember the Colts having a need at running back. Is drafting the best available player at a position of need a reach? He had a great rookie year running through holes I could gain 3 yards through against defenses that had to respect the pass on every down.

5 - Anyone who said that before the season was simply exercising wishful thinking, and you're a fool if you lend credence to people who predicted implosion for a team which went 13-3 last year and made the AFCCG and didn't lose much over the offseason. If you're talking about people who said that during this season, well they were imploding in '06. They righted the ship.

A much better list would have included things like:

Manning is a choke-artist who can't win a SB
Defense wins championships
A team that gives up <insert any stat relating to just how bad the Colts D was> cannot win a SB
The Colts cannot win on grass
Dungy is too soft to ever win a SB

and so on. instead you gave us that other crap.

 

[dhamz]

Can we now officially shatter the myth that you are a Pats fan and not a Colts fan?

 

[Fanfrom1960]

3) The rain did favor the Bears but they suck enough that the rain wasn't even close enough to close the gap.

Surely you jest. Not for sure, but Grossman's two fumbled center snaps might have been wet ball related. Also, Peyton has the necessary big QB hands to handle the ball in all situations, even though he said his still sore thumb prevented him from squeezing the ball, which you don't want to do in the rain anyway. I'm going to go find a Bears site and see what they're thinking about Grossman.