Running the table? I wouldn't bet on it. Lower your expectations.

[ausbacker]

Yeah that is a good point about the 50 points. In hindsight, I have no clue where that came from.

But I still stand behind my comments. I don't think we have the most potential. To me, potential is the upside of the team. With TFB playing at such a high level week after week, our offense plays pretty close to their maximum all the time, whereas teams like the 49ers go up and down. In their best day, they are worse than we on an average day, but the with the defenses the matchup is the other way around.

However, I do think that we control our own destiny against just about 23 or 24 of the 31 teams in the NFL. The remaining 6-7 are what I call "top end teams".

When two top end teams play the outcome is always uncertain. The differences are so small, it usually comes down to 1 or 2 key plays, and whoever makes those plays on any given sunday comes down to things like experience, momentum, form, mental toughness, single moments of individual brilliance etc..

They're all fair points Finnish. My only real point of contention is the Patriots have played some D's in good form (at the time of contest) and they've only managed to slow down the Pats O. Sometimes that's good enough to get the W (as we've unfortunately seen). That's why the Pats need a better D.

 

[Finnishfan]

They're all fair points Finnish. My only real point of contention is the Patriots have played some D's in good form (at the time of contest) and they've only managed to slow down the Pats O. Sometimes that's good enough to get the W (as we've unfortunately seen). That's why the Pats need a better D.

On those notes I agree completely.

 

[mayoclinic]

Watching the Pats demish the Jets despite playing on the road on short rest minus 4 top starters (Gronk, Mankins, Vollmer, Jones), I'm not I inclined to lower my expectations right now.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Watching the Pats demish the Jets despite playing on the road on short rest minus 4 top starters (Gronk, Mankins, Vollmer, Jones), I'm not I inclined to lower my expectations right now.

Same here. I agree with the theory that our A game > any other team's A game, it's just you can't always count on that A game from us in the big game recently. And I hope AHern's ankle is like the earlier Gronk injury in that it will eventually get better and he's back to or near his usual self at some point before the playoffs, because tonight he clearly wasn't close. And ditto for Mankins, seeing how he's not been IR'd yet I'd take it there's a good shot he'll be back just not sure how effective he'll be.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I disagree with the mentality in this comment.

This is one of those comments that make it sound like there is only 1 team whose performance determines the outcome. "If we play well we win, if we won't we will lose."

It's not only about how we play, it's about how our opponents play as well. We can win Texans or whomever, even if we have a bad day, as long as they have worse.

Furthermore, I don't think we have more potential than the 49ers, and I'm not sold on the comparison against the Texans either seeing how high of an upside Schaub obviously has. If Kaepernick can put up 32 on the Bears, then he can definitely put a 50-burger on us in his best day. Even though TFB is the best QB in the NFL, I don't see him putting up 50 on the 49ers D without some help in terms of turnovers etc.

While you two are having your little pity party together... The Pats have reeled off 4 straight wins and put up 59 and 49 points against their opponents in the past two games. Sorry, I just don't see the reason for pessimism right now except for the objective of being pessimistic and gloomy.

That Texans team that you fear so much, should not have escaped with a win against the Lions except for an obviously f**d up call by the refs giving them a freebie TD that should have never happened. And the 49ers are toying with the idea of changing their starting QB and messing up the 'mojo' by putting in a rookie. I'm supposed to be quaking in my boots at these guys?

 

[Reckedtrek]

And how is everyone's expectations this evening?

 

[Finnishfan]

While you two are having your little pity party together... The Pats have reeled off 4 straight wins and put up 59 and 49 points against their opponents in the past two games. Sorry, I just don't see the reason for pessimism right now except for the objective of being pessimistic and gloomy.

That Texans team that you fear so much, should not have escaped with a win against the Lions except for an obviously f**d up call by the refs giving them a freebie TD that should have never happened. And the 49ers are toying with the idea of changing their starting QB and messing up the 'mojo' by putting in a rookie. I'm supposed to be quaking in my boots at these guys?

VJCPatriot, you had three poor judgement calls on one play. :bricks:

1) Opportunistic attack on a post that you did not even understand.

I wasn't talking about our chances or who the favourite is or should be. I was questionning the mindset that "we control our destiny against anyone".

There are three very important reasons why I think like that.
1) Saying that you are going to win before even stepping on the field is Rex Ryan mindset, whereas BB always says "work hard", "do your job" and "look at the scoreboard after the game". The other one is a fatalist who thinks that the more air you pump to a balloon the better it flies, ignoring that the balloon might leak or end up bursting at some point. The other one is more down-to-earth who wants their guys focused on the play at hand, and ignore the score.
2) Predicting outcomes in this parity age is always questionnable. So therefore making a statement that "we win if we show up" ignores the fact that the differences between teams are really small. As I said in my post, you can win with a poor game even against a good team, and you can also lose with a good game.
3) You always have a biased perspective on your own team, and you do not know other teams as well to make a legit comparison. So saying that we are the "outright best team" is homerism basically 99 times out of 100.

I hope I do not have to explain this any further than this or give examples etc.

2) Countering my post with arguments far outside the topic.

This is strongly related to #1, and another illustration of your inability to understand what were were discussing with ausbacker. Saying that I fear the Texans only becouse I said "I'm not sold that we have more potential", is absurd. When you look at what I said, I didn't even state that we wouldn't have more potential, I just said that I'm not willing to state that we do.

Here are two equasions for you, which I hope you learn from this post:
RESPECT <> FEAR
POTENTIAL <> PERFORMANCE
In case you are not aware of, the sign between the words means "does not equal".

Just look at the Chargers, Lions or any other team that is called a regular "underachiever" and you understand how far below performance can go from potential. Potential means what you are capable of ON YOUR BEST DAY.

So no matter how bad they play, it doesn't change their potential. Their potential is the sum of upside of all their players (individually AND combined), but the upside might sometimes be far away from the performance or their average. In case of TB, he plays at such a high level week after week that his upside is not far from his average. That is why he has less room for improvement than Schaub, Smith, Kaepernick or whomever.

3) Calling people out based on one post.

Calling people out in internet forums usually sidetracks the discussion from the purpose of that board. So when you called me out, you effectively lowered the quality of this board, making yourself a negative contributor.

We are here to talk football, and if you want to counter my points, feel free to do so and we shall have a civil conversation just like I had with ausbacker, the poster I replied to with that post you just quoted. I will not give you the same courtesy of civil conversation, because that is what you chose when you started by calling our dialogue "a pity party" and continuing with your "pessimism" and "fear" arguments.

At least I thought we had a nice discussion with ausbacker, on a subject that might not interest you, but it interested both of us enough for us to discuss it. Feel free to not reply to posts that are not targeted to you, especially if you miss the whole point of the discussion.

Furthermore, suggesting I am a pessimist based on how much interaction you have had with me tells me that you are fast to judge people which is usually a sign of arrogance (not a rare commodity nowadays). I'm not a blind homer, but that doesn't make me a pessimist.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

VJCPatriot, you had three poor judgement calls on one play. :bricks:

1) Opportunistic attack on a post that you did not even understand.
...
I hope I do not have to explain this any further than this or give examples etc.

2) Countering my post with arguments far outside the topic.
...
Here are two equasions for you, which I hope you learn from this post:
RESPECT <> FEAR
POTENTIAL <> PERFORMANCE
In case you are not aware of, the sign between the words means "does not equal".
...

3) Calling people out based on one post.
...
Furthermore, suggesting I am a pessimist based on how much interaction you have had with me tells me that you are fast to judge people which is usually a sign of arrogance (not a rare commodity nowadays)...

Have a couple of shots of Koskenkorva and chill, dude.

You're going to have a cardiac event if you keep taking trash talk here that seriously...if you think someone's an idiot or unfair, just ignore them...friendly advice from someone whose preference runs to Akvavit and who has ignored his share of idiots. :singing:

 

[mayoclinic]

Pats are done with November at 8-3. 4 games left in December plus the Fish at home in January.

Since 2001 the Pat's under BB in December have an aggregate record of 41-5:

2011: 4-0 (Indianapolis, Washington, Denver, Miami)
2010: 4-0 (NY Jets, Chicago, Green Bay, Buffalo)
2009: 3-1 (Carolina, BUffalo, Jacksonville, the lone loss being a 22-21 loss to Miami)
2008: 4-0 (Seattle, Oakland, Arizona, Buffalo)
2007: 5-0 (Baltimore, Pittsburgh, NY Jets, Miami, NY Giants)
2006: 4-1 (Detroit, Houston, Jacksonville, Tennessee, the lone loss coming to Miami 21-0)
2005: 4-0 (NJ Jets, Buffalo Tampa Bay, NJ Jets)
2004: 3-1 (Cleveland, Cincinnati, NY Jets, the lone loss being a 29-28 loss to Miami)
2003: 4-0 (Miami, Jacksonville, NY Jets, Buffalo)
2002: 2-2 (Buffalo, Miami; losses to Tennessee and the Jets)
2001: 4-0 (NY Jets, Cleveland, Buffalo, Miami)

The only year in which the team lost 2 games in December was 2002. 2 of the losses were by 1 point. However, 3 of the losses were to Miami.

This year the Pats play @Miami, Houston, SF, @Jax. Anything less than 3-1 would be a huge step off given the team's history in December, and given the way this team is playing going into the month.

 

[Patriot Missile]

And how is everyone's expectations this evening?

My expectations have never been higher.

 

[Finnishfan]

Have a couple of shots of Koskenkorva and chill, dude.

You're going to have a cardiac event if you keep taking trash talk here that seriously...if you think someone's an idiot or unfair, just ignore them...friendly advice from someone whose preference runs to Akvavit and who has ignored his share of idiots. :singing:

Thanks for the concern and the tip. However, that was a very self-aware and concious step over the line there from my part.

Also, even though it might seem that way based on my answer, I don't really get emotional over those comments. I love dishing out some, but as a fairly kind person I'm kinda of an opportunistic myself with picking my fights.

Furthermore, this board is awesome. I generally feel like the atmosphere here is nice and there are a lot of great posters with very insightful comments. Perhaps the reason I like this so much is that I used to be a regular at the official Patriots board. THAT was something else.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Thanks for the concern and the tip. However, that was a very self-aware and concious step over the line there from my part.

Also, even though it might seem that way based on my answer, I don't really get emotional over those comments. I love dishing out some, but as a fairly kind person I'm kinda of an opportunistic myself with picking my fights.

Furthermore, this board is awesome. I generally feel like the atmosphere here is nice and there are a lot of great posters with very insightful comments. Perhaps the reason I like this so much is that I used to be a regular at the official Patriots board. THAT was something else.

I'll take your word for that.

Have a good day and see ya around the Board!

 

[supafly]

And how is everyone's expectations this evening?

My expectations are that we can compete point to point with anyone, and that has remained the same since the beginning of the year. My biggest worry is the pass defense, and that has seemed to look better with better safety play lately.

I am wanting the bye very badly, and I do see a loss/two by both BAL and HOU.

I am still not going to be convinced that running the table to finish 14-0 or 15-0 to end the year is much of an odds on favorite, but anything can happen.

More importantly, losing a game (possibly even two although that is just as unlikely as winning every game from here on out) shouldn't really matter too much, except maybe for the seeding chances.

The OP suggests "betting on it" in his wording. I wouldn't bet on it, but I certainly wouldn't be shocked either. My only worry would be whether we could still have enough momentum to win the whole thing come Jan/Feb.

 

[lurker1965]

Yeah, you fools. Why waste your time rooting for them?

This is sarcasm.

 

[PatriotSeven]

Don't mean to poo poo our win here, but this was the 10th best scoring defense in the NFL and they managed to keep us under 24 points.

It's a good thing Miami's offense sucks. The next 2 games will be no joke.

 

[Rob0729]

Don't mean to poo poo our win here, but this was the 10th best scoring defense in the NFL and they managed to keep us under 24 points.

It's a good thing Miami's offense sucks. The next 2 games will be no joke.

You mean the 10th ranked defense that allows an average of 20.5 points a game? Remind me which is more 20.5 or 23?

 

[PatriotSeven]

You mean the 10th ranked defense that allows an average of 20.5 points a game? Remind me which is more 20.5 or 23?

Not sure what that has to do with the fact they did a pretty good job neutralizing our 37ppg offense. It's expected they would allow more than their average when facing the #1 offense. But 2.5 points over that average, doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence.

The point is the 49ers and Texans defense shouldn't have a problem doing the same. The question is can our defense stop those offenses? Miami was ranked 26th. We're about to face 2 better defenses and the #2 offense in Houston.

 

[Rob0729]

Not sure what that has to do with the fact they did a pretty good job neutralizing our 37ppg offense. It's expected they would allow more than their average when facing the #1 offense. But 2.5 points over that average, doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence.

The point is the 49ers and Texans defense shouldn't have a problem doing the same. The question is can our defense stop those offenses? Miami was ranked 26th. We're about to face 2 better defenses and the #2 offense in Houston.

And the Pats were without three offensive starters. Reports were that Vollmer looked so bad before the game that it was a shock he started. Also, the 37 PPG have a lot to do with turnovers which were at a minimum today.

The Pats won the game a few poor executions stopped this game from being a route.

I don't know if either team will have problem doing the same. Will Gronk or Mankins be back for either game? Gronk especially will make a bi difference. Will Brady be as bad off on his passes in those games as he was today?

One game tells you nothing about how they will play the rest of the way.

I swear some people would be happier being right that the Pats won't swept the rest of the way than being proven wrong by the Pats.

 

[PatriotSeven]

And the Pats were without three offensive starters. Reports were that Vollmer looked so bad before the game that it was a shock he started. Also, the 37 PPG have a lot to do with turnovers which were at a minimum today.

The Pats won the game a few poor executions stopped this game from being a route.

I don't know if either team will have problem doing the same. Will Gronk or Mankins be back for either game? Gronk especially will make a bi difference. Will Brady be as bad off on his passes in those games as he was today?

One game tells you nothing about how they will play the rest of the way.

I swear some people would be happier being right that the Pats won't swept the rest of the way than being proven wrong by the Pats.

Would be awesome if Gronk makes it back but I doubt it. We need him more than ever now that Julian is hurt.

It's not one game though. If you read the thread earlier, the problem was we were 0-3 against top 10 scoring defenses. This isn't the first one to give us problems this year, but at least we got the W.

 

[Raymond]

Not sure what that has to do with the fact they did a pretty good job neutralizing our 37ppg offense. It's expected they would allow more than their average when facing the #1 offense. But 2.5 points over that average, doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence.

The point is the 49ers and Texans defense shouldn't have a problem doing the same. The question is can our defense stop those offenses? Miami was ranked 26th. We're about to face 2 better defenses and the #2 offense in Houston.

Wait. You thought there was a simple equation that could reflect exactly what today's score would be based on the # rank O vs D from previous games?

What year did you start watching football?