Worst BB coached game??

[JJDChE]

I blame Ebner.

Do they have 'ole' blocks in rugby?

 

[jsull87]

My god this 2008 Matt Cassel argument is so pathetic.

Again, the team had 5 more losses than the previous season with Brady. Their schedule was ridiculously soft in 2008. They lost their 3 most important conference matchups (vs Indy, Pitt, & SD) and Cassel was collectively abysmal in those contests (6 turnovers & 0 TD's). Most tellingly, they didn't make the postseason, and that 2008 season without Brady is surrounded by 7 division titles with Brady.

Specifically look at the decline of the passing game and overall offense from 2007 (with Brady) to 2008 (with Cassel)...

Passing categories which declined:
total yards (starting QB) from 4806 to 3693
Y/G from 300.4 to 230.8
Y/A from 8.3 to 7.2
Pct from 68.9 to 63.4
TD from 50 to 21
TD/INT differential from +42 to +10
TD% from 8.7 to 4.1
QBR from 117.2 to 89.4
overall (team) rank from 1st to 10th

(Brady led the NFL in all those individual categories in 2007)

Offensive categories which declined:
Pts/G from 36.8 to 25.6
3rdD% from 48.2 to 43.2
Red zone rank from 2nd to 19th
Red zone TD from 50 to 33
Red zone TD% from .694 to .508
Red zone scoring% from .944 to .892

Clear evidence of a sharp drop off without Brady.

Ummmm yeah... no one's arguing that Cassel is greater than Brady. What we are saying is that BB is a good coach. As seen by his season with Cassell where he went 11-5. What part of that argument are you missing? Because it's pretty simple A to B reasoning.

With Brady 16-0 (07) then 10-6 (09)
With Cassell 11-5 (08)

Brady is great... probably the greatest in our opinions... BB still took a middle of the range/below middle of the range QB to an 11 win season in his 1st year starting with little to no 1st team reps before week 1. The same QB that everyone was saying should be cut pre season... you bringing up a drop in passing production and offense from brady to cassel is only helping my argument that despite that great decrease in talent at QB BB still managed to get an 11 win season out of his team. Even having some idiots in the media try to say that without BB's "system" Brady would not be great.

Long story short BB makes Brady better Brady makes BB better... they are both great.

Stop arguing and accept BB is one of the greatest coaches of all time.

 

[Steve102]

From Steve Silverman:

1) Tom Brady-Bill Belichick, New England Patriots – It’s not only the best quarterback-coach combination right now, but perhaps one of the three best of all-time. You would have to put these two in a category with Joe Montana and Bill Walsh, along with Dan Marino and Don Shula. Belichick is rarely impressed with his football players and looks at most as parts who will need to be replaced at a certain point in their careers. However, he recognized Brady’s special characteristics early on.

No, we’re not talking about Brady’s accuracy and arm strength. Any coach could have recognized those attributes. However, the fact that Brady is constantly studying film, finding opponents’ weaknesses and staying late in practice to build rhythm with his receivers has given the two a special bond.

Brady has made it a point to work hard and impress Belichick, and the single-minded Belichick appreciates that Brady has gone above and beyond so many times.

consider :
Chuck Noll/Terry Bradshaw
Vince Lombardi/Bart Starr
Tom Landry/Roger Staubach
George Halas/Sid Luckman
Paul Brown/Otto Graham

It can be argued the greatest coaches have one thing in common, a great QB. It's a chicken and egg argument IMO. They compliment each other, and one is not complete without the other.

 

[JJDChE]

From Steve Silverman:



consider :
Chuck Noll/Terry Bradshaw
Vince Lombardi/Bart Starr
Tom Landry/Roger Staubach
George Halas/Sid Luckman
Paul Brown/Otto Graham

It can be argued the greatest coaches have one thing in common, a great QB. It's a chicken and egg argument IMO. They compliment each other, and one is not complete without the other.

Joe Gibbs/???

 

[Steve102]

Joe Gibbs/???

Gibbs is the only one that didn't have the great QB. So, can you make an argument that Gibbs is the GOAT? He did it without the great QB, unlike the others.

 

[crawhammer]

Ummmm yeah... no one's arguing that Cassel is greater than Brady. What we are saying is that BB is a good coach. As seen by his season with Cassell where he went 11-5. What part of that argument are you missing? Because it's pretty simple A to B reasoning.

With Brady 16-0 (07) then 10-6 (09)
With Cassell 11-5 (08)

Brady is great... probably the greatest in our opinions... BB still took a middle of the range/below middle of the range QB to an 11 win season in his 1st year starting with little to no 1st team reps before week 1. The same QB that everyone was saying should be cut pre season... you bringing up a drop in passing production and offense from brady to cassel is only helping my argument that despite that great decrease in talent at QB BB still managed to get an 11 win season out of his team. Even having some idiots in the media try to say that without BB's "system" Brady would not be great.

Long story short BB makes Brady better Brady makes BB better... they are both great.

Stop arguing and accept BB is one of the greatest coaches of all time.

Your argument is Belichick is a great coach as evidenced by what he accomplished with Cassel at quarterback in 2008. My counter argument is despite the seemingly decent record of 11-5, the team actually performed significantly worse in 2008 (without Brady) than in 2007 (with Brady) so your argument is invalid.

Take a closer look at the records...

2007 (16-0):
8-0 against teams with a .500 or better record
6-0 against playoff teams
4-0 against division winners

2008 (11-5):
4-5 against teams with a .500 or better record
2-4 against playoff teams
2-3 against division winners

The '08 team couldn't beat the better teams on their schedule and their overall record was merely inflated by virtue of going 7-0 against teams with a losing record. Further proof of Brady's value to the team. And further proof of Belichick remaining unaccomplished as a head coach when working with a QB other than Brady.