Salas, Rivera, Hilliard Released

[Ring 6]

We'd have been better off if Josh McDaniels brought Danny Amendola over with him. There's your Welker replacement (for those on the trade White Wes Welker bandwagon - not me though).

It seems so strange to see the team in a state of flux thanks to an average OL and Hernandez's injury. Who would have thought the defense would be the fundamentally sound unit through 2 weeks?

If the FG goes through, there is no flux, just an injury, a minor story about Welker playing a little less, and some comments about whether Connolly will be ready to go.
Last week, based on one game, everyone decided there was proof that we became a running team. This week after another people think what happened this week proves the future as well.
Small chance of being correct.

 

[ATippett56]

He and Branch were the two guys who still had their lockers intact.

I knew about the status of Branch's locker (thru Patriots PFW) but not Koutouvides.

 

[supafly]

We'd have been better off if Josh McDaniels brought Danny Amendola over with him. There's your Welker replacement (for those on the trade White Wes Welker bandwagon - not me though).

It seems so strange to see the team in a state of flux thanks to an average OL and Hernandez's injury. Who would have thought the defense would be the fundamentally sound unit through 2 weeks?

Yep, we have to hope for the defense to continue to carry us until the offense gets clicking. At weird as it seems to type that, the offense really didn't look too great in TC practices as a whole + preseason games, even if they kept it vanilla. Initial reports were that Llyod looked good during the first few practices, but there were a lot of 'defense defeats offense again' reports as camp went on. I don't think they are on the same page yet, but we don't know how close they may/may not be either.

The loss of Hernandez only adds to the problems, but you'd think that a coach like Belichick would have been more than ready for something like that.

As far as WWW goes, I'm all for keeping him for another 2-3 yrs. What I suggested in my thread a few wks ago was that his potential trade value would never be as high as it was at the end of August. The missing of practices and inactivity for the Tampa game made it seem even weirder.

I would love for them to come to a deal with him when the yr's over, but if they kept him at 10 million this year AND missed out on a high pick to attempt the Julian Edelman experiment with Welker not contributing as much I will be pissed as hell.

 

[Deus Irae]

If the FG goes through, there is no flux, just an injury, a minor story about Welker playing a little less, and some comments about whether Connolly will be ready to go.
Last week, based on one game, everyone decided there was proof that we became a running team. This week after another people think what happened this week proves the future as well.
Small chance of being correct.

This is likely an inaccurate characterization. The Welker situation has been bubbling, and would have been a huge story regardless of the FG.

Your running game argument is also a bit of a reach, because the Patriots had to modify their offense both because of the loss of Hernandez and because of the flow of the game.

Regardless, the overall change in the offense would have been a significant story, one way or the other.

 

[ausbacker]

If the FG goes through, there is no flux, just an injury, a minor story about Welker playing a little less, and some comments about whether Connolly will be ready to go.
Last week, based on one game, everyone decided there was proof that we became a running team. This week after another people think what happened this week proves the future as well.
Small chance of being correct.

The line put in another poor performance against a good defensive front Andy. A trend appears to be emerging. With the retirements of Robert Gallery, Matt Light, Brian Waters shenanigans, Connolly's concussion and Vollmer's back issues I'd say it's a fair comment to say the OL is in a state of flux.

The offense is predicated on Brady's ability to read the defense, adjust the protection and call then execute the play. I've long said that evaluations should be done in 4 game blocks, something which I will adhere to, but the line needs to improve and in a big way for the Patriots to beat the Ravens and Bills.

 

[Ring 6]

This is likely an inaccurate characterization. The Welker situation has been bubbling, and would have been a huge story regardless of the FG.

He played 63 snaps and had 11 targets.

Your running game argument is also a bit of a reach, because the Patriots had to modify their offense both because of the loss of Hernandez and because of the flow of the game.

Arguing that the claim that the team has become a running game based upon 1 game is short sighted is a reach? Come on.

Regardless, the overall change in the offense would have been a significant story, one way or the other.

The change was the injury to Hernandez. That doesn't equal an offense 'in flux'.

 

[Ring 6]

The line put in another poor performance against a good defensive front Andy. A trend appears to be emerging. With the retirements of Robert Gallery, Matt Light, Brian Waters shenanigans, Connolly's concussion and Vollmer's back issues I'd say it's a fair comment to say the OL is in a state of flux.

How is that a case of the offense being 'in flux'?
The #1 draft choice replaced the retired LT in year 2, and has looked fine.
Robert Gallery never played a down.
Waters retired and we didn't miss a beat week 1, and with his replacement also out, we had struggles at the position.
This is NFL football, not flux.

 

[ausbacker]

Yep, we have to hope for the defense to continue to carry us until the offense gets clicking. At weird as it seems to type that, the offense really didn't look too great in TC practices as a whole + preseason games, even if they kept it vanilla. Initial reports were that Llyod looked good during the first few practices, but there were a lot of 'defense defeats offense again' reports as camp went on. I don't think they are on the same page yet, but we don't know how close they may/may not be either.

The loss of Hernandez only adds to the problems, but you'd think that a coach like Belichick would have been more than ready for something like that.

As far as WWW goes, I'm all for keeping him for another 2-3 yrs. What I suggested in my thread a few wks ago was that his potential trade value would never be as high as it was at the end of August. The missing of practices and inactivity for the Tampa game made it seem even weirder.

I would love for them to come to a deal with him when the yr's over, but if they kept him at 10 million this year AND missed out on a high pick to attempt the Julian Edelman experiment with Welker not contributing as much I will be pissed as hell.

I'm yet to understand the position of people who believe that Edelman can replace Welker's production as credible.

 

[ausbacker]

How is that a case of the offense being 'in flux'?
The #1 draft choice replaced the retired LT in year 2, and has looked fine.
Robert Gallery never played a down.
Waters retired and we didn't miss a beat week 1, and with his replacement also out, we had struggles at the position.
This is NFL football, not flux.

Did you even bother to read my post or have you just sprouted off from the 6 shooter again?

 

[Deus Irae]

He played 63 snaps and had 11 targets.

You keep saying that as if it answers the issue. You know it doesn't though, so I don't really understand why you continue to say it.

Arguing that the claim that the team has become a running game based upon 1 game is short sighted is a reach? Come on.

Given the comments by the team, people who disagree with you on this issue are more firmly grounded in the likely reality than you are.

The change was the injury to Hernandez. That doesn't equal an offense 'in flux'.

The injury to Hernandez is not the only change in the offense. Again, this is something you already know. I'm not sure why you're deliberately taking positions you know to be incorrect or misleading, but it's really not something I want to move forward with.

 

[PatsWSB47]

This is likely an inaccurate characterization. The Welker situation has been bubbling, and would have been a huge story regardless of the FG.

Your running game argument is also a bit of a reach, because the Patriots had to modify their offense both because of the loss of Hernandez and because of the flow of the game.

Regardless, the overall change in the offense would have been a significant story, one way or the other.

The loss magnifies every flaw, real or percieved

 

[Deus Irae]

The loss magnifies every flaw, real or percieved

Some of us have been discussing those flaws, real or perceived, since before the first game. This isn't a product of just one loss.

 

[ausbacker]

The loss magnifies every flaw, real or percieved

I'm not particularly concerned with the Cardinals loss in isolation PatsWSB47, it's more the trend that's developed since 42 where if the Patriots can't control the line of scrimmage there appears to be a fundamental breakdown on offense that appears to match the play-calling.

Right now, all I can say is thank heavens for the performance of the D. If they perform against Baltimore and Buffalo away from home, the Patriots may finally be on the path we'd all hoped the D would be on for some time.

 

[Ring 6]

You keep saying that as if it answers the issue. You know it doesn't though, so I don't really understand why you continue to say it.

Of course it answers 'the issue'. He was out there for 63 plays and had 11 targets and people are trying to say there is a conspiracy. Its stupid, frankly.

Given the comments by the team, people who disagree with you on this issue are more firmly grounded in the likely reality than you are.

Comments from the team? Are you seriously trying to tell me that a Bill Belichick team has made comments that you consider to be an announcement of a change in offensive philosophy, playcalling and game planning?
Even then, considering the first game of the year proof of a change in philosophy is foolhardy, and you know that.

The injury to Hernandez is not the only change in the offense. Again, this is something you already know. I'm not sure why you're deliberately taking positions you know to be incorrect or misleading, but it's really not something I want to move forward with.

Because they are not incorrect or misleading and you know that.
The offense has had some personell changes, nothing more significant than most teams undergo. It is running essentially the same offense, except in the eyes of people who want to create change that hasn't happened.
You probably are right to not want to move forward, because you are way off the mark on this one.

 

[Ring 6]

Did you even bother to read my post or have you just sprouted off from the 6 shooter again?

Did you even bother to read mine?
I was discussing a comment that the offense was in flux. You responded with Robert Gallery retiring.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Some of us have been discussing those flaws, real or perceived, since before the first game. This isn't a product of just one loss.

Here and in the media, I agree but over-reaction Monday disease over losses early in the season infects fans and analysts in pandemic proportions.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Encouraging news, hopefully Oompa Loompa is next. So out is Halas, Hilliard, and Rivera. In is Branch, Winslow, so that leaves one empty spot or am I missing a transaction?

 

[ausbacker]

Did you even bother to read mine?
I was discussing a comment that the offense was in flux. You responded with Robert Gallery retiring.

Further proof that you didn't bother to read my post if you're positioning that as its main theme.

 

[Deus Irae]

Of course it answers 'the issue'. He was out there for 63 plays and had 11 targets and people are trying to say there is a conspiracy. Its stupid, frankly.




Comments from the team? Are you seriously trying to tell me that a Bill Belichick team has made comments that you consider to be an announcement of a change in offensive philosophy, playcalling and game planning?
Even then, considering the first game of the year proof of a change in philosophy is foolhardy, and you know that.



Because they are not incorrect or misleading and you know that.
The offense has had some personell changes, nothing more significant than most teams undergo. It is running essentially the same offense, except in the eyes of people who want to create change that hasn't happened.
You probably are right to not want to move forward, because you are way off the mark on this one.

I'll sum this up because, as I said, you know you're posting things that are incorrect or misleading:

The team itself, in the form of McDaniels' interview today, for example, has said it's changed with regards to Welker. That's in addition to what's been clearly changed on the field.

The team itself, earlier in the year, clearly changed personnel to emphasize the running game, and TE passing game, more. Extra TEs and a FB weren't mirages.

Welker, according to a report on 98.5 today, wasn't even targeted until late in the second quarter of this last game, and was being sent on decoy routes until then, including a lot of "go" routes which are not generally routes that he runs.

Now, you can continue tossing out the information that you know doesn't actually address the issues. I'm just not going to respond to you further on this subject, because I'm not going to get into this with you.

Ausbacker seems more up for an internet donnybrook, though, so have at it with him.

 

[Deus Irae]

Here and in the media, I agree but over-reaction Monday disease over losses early in the season infects fans and analysts in pandemic proportions.

True, and that happens with every fan base. Every loss is a sign of doom. Every win is proof of divine approval.

I thought you were referring to the board as opposed to the general populace. My apologies for the misunderstanding.