If PSU gets the Death Penalty What Happens to O'Brien?

[Steve102]

I was not comparing what LL did to me with what Paterno/Sandusky did to the kids. I was comparing what LL did to me to what the NCAA is doing to the PSU kids. Why the collective punishment?

The players at PSU can transfer immediately to another school, without redshirting. The players are not being punished whatsoever. If they want out, they can get out. It would have been as if you could have transferred onto another LL team and kept playing.

 

[BradyManny]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't all the incidents that Sandowski committed happen within the confines of his "youth foundation"? Can the crimes of ONE man, and the inaction of perhaps 3 or 4 more condemn an entire program and wipe out the efforts on hundreds of people over the past decade.

Punish the man who committed the crime. Penalize the people who didn't act appropriately. But those were crimes and inactions that were committed by INDIVIDUALS and they should be punished as such

You should know by now this isn't just a problem with a few individuals.

Maybe only a few individuals broke the law.

But the problem is a serious issue of the culture up there, and the sycophants and morons who turned football into a religion there. Even still, just listen to the fools up there as they react to Paterno's statue coming down.

A culture change is going to take a lot more than punishing the people that broke the law. If there has to be collateral damage, so be it. But we've already seen that punishing Sandusky, and even Paterno, isn't enough to break the mentality of the people up there that encouraged and enabled these men to do what they did.

(Which is maybe besides the point as even from the getgo we've heard that this issue was widely known and completely ignored up there. But, even putting those claims aside, it's clear its a CULTURE problem.)

 

[NEGoldenAge]

What? You don't see a competitive advantage? You honestly believe if this had come to surface in 1998 or 2001 that recruits would have still all gone to PSU? This was a cover-up of Nixonian standards, and it was all done in the name of football and keeping up appearances, while keeping the PSU football machine making money, while allowing Paterno his record for all-time wins.

As far as turning this into way more than it was...again, what? The Monster was known to be molesting children in 1998, and Paterno and his staff covered it up, and then again in 2001. Any other work he's done is trumped by this mistake. He single-handedly could have stopped it in 1998. It would have been a blip on the radar if he had done the right thing. Instead, in the name of football, he allowed The Monster to prey on AT RISK KIDS!! The very kids who needed help! Paterno swept it under the rug and hushed it up, all in the name of Penn State football. Football is bigger than these kids, his actions said. It's horrific that this enabler allowed it, and it's crazy to me that people are still defending Paterno.

This whole thing is not about competitive advantage, and if you listened to the explanation that was given out during when the punishment was handed down this would be obvious. This is about an athletics program that became too big and too influential that it put children in harms way in order to presever the reputation of the program. The only difference between this and the Catholic Church scandal is scale. Even for one who's head is firmly embedded within their anus, this should be considered common sense.

 

[eagle eye]

But the problem is a serious issue of the culture up there, and the sycophants and morons who turned football into a religion there.

Football is a religion!

 

[eagle eye]

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

For those who didn't already know,Paterno not once but TWICE turned down the Patriots head coaching position...in 1973 he actually said YES but later retracted his statements.

 

[BradyManny]

What? You don't see a competitive advantage? You honestly believe if this had come to surface in 1998 or 2001 that recruits would have still all gone to PSU? This was a cover-up of Nixonian standards, and it was all done in the name of football and keeping up appearances, while keeping the PSU football machine making money, while allowing Paterno his record for all-time wins.

Well put. Very well put.

There's no absolutely no way to argue that the COVER-UP was done for any other reason but to remain competitive on the football field.

Someone on the Penn State coaching staff did something that - if revealed - would have serious negative consequences to the football program.

That was then covered up, to remain competitive on the football field.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

A perfect example of exactly the sort of lynch mob response I was posting about earlier....

Calling a group of peoples' outrage at a cover up and continued enablilng of a heinous crime says a lot about what you think about the crime in question.

Phil Collins - True Colors - YouTube

 

[NEGoldenAge]

For those who didn't already know,Paterno not once but TWICE turned down the Patriots head coaching position...in 1973 he actually said YES but later retracted his statements.

You're definitely in the right place.

 

[Frezo]

For those who didn't already know,Paterno not once but TWICE turned down the Patriots head coaching position...in 1973 he actually said YES but later retracted his statements.

It's too bad he said no. Parcells wouldn't have been able to abuse Terry Glenn.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Well put. Very well put.

There's no absolutely no way to argue that the COVER-UP was done for any other reason but to remain competitive on the football field.

Someone on the Penn State coaching staff did something that - if revealed - would have serious negative consequences to the football program.

That was then covered up, to remain competitive on the football field.

It wasn't just to keep competitive on the field but as much to keep competitive in the merchandising market .... I can attest to the fact that in Pennsylvania alone there is by far and away millions and millions of Nittany Lion merchandise sold daily (or shall I say,was) than any other school in the nation...the closest being Notre Dame ...

Penn State has always been the leaders or near the top of leading the merchandising market in collegiate football,there are fans everywhere.

This scandal is likely to slow down their popularity quite a bit now and this is a reason why Paterno turned his back on morality....it was for money and fame over morals.

 

[Deus Irae]

Calling a group of peoples' outrage at a cover up and continued enablilng of a heinous crime says a lot about what you think about the crime in question.

Phil Collins - True Colors - YouTube

It says nothing at all about what I think about the crime in question.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think people are making a huge mistake by separating the football and the serial child-rape that was occurring.

There's no mistake at all in separating them, because they are separate.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

It says nothing at all about what I think about the crime in question.

Techncally you are right. It merely shows what you think about the covering up and enabling of such a crime.

 

[BradyManny]

Penn State has always been the leaders or near the top of leading the merchandising market in collegiate football,there are fans everywhere

Fair point.

But to me, the larger issue - and to folks like Deus that say the NCAA had no right to penalize PSU here - is that the cover-up is so clearly tied to retaining a competitive advantage.

Again, I don't know the first thing about some of the legal issues here, but to me, how can the NCAA not penalize PSU for that? They hid heinous crimes in the name of protecting their brand - and of course their brand directly gives them a competitive advantage in recruiting. The link is there.

 

[Steve102]

This whole thing is not about competitive advantage, and if you listened to the explanation that was given out during when the punishment was handed down this would be obvious. This is about an athletics program that became too big and too influential that it put children in harms way in order to presever the reputation of the program. The only difference between this and the Catholic Church scandal is scale. Even for one who's head is firmly embedded within their anus, this should be considered common sense.

we do not disagree. I listened to the presser live this morning, and I agree. The competitive advantage your addressing (I think) is in response to another poster who had his head up his posterior.

And, since you brought it up, good reference on the Catholic Church. I am making a leap and guessing that Paterno was Catholic. It's not much of a leap to think a guy brought up in the Catholic Church, especially one of his age, would handle a sexual abuse issue in this manner.

"Now look, Father Jerry, you can't keep doing this. This has to stop. We're going to strip you of your priesthood. You can continue here as a lectern and a lay person, but your days of saying mass are over. You may continue coaching CYO and conducting CCD classes, but you've got to behave."

 

[Deus Irae]

Techncally you are right. It merely shows what you think about the covering up and enabling of such a crime.

It doesn't show that either.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

It doesn't show that either.

If that is really what you think, it is time to re-evaluate you medication regiment.

The university recieved a punishment that both fit the crime and tried to really target those most responsible while also focussing on the idea of athletics programs not becoming more important that the values that they are supposed to stand for. The masses aren't saying the punishment didn't go far enough which would be a requirement for it to be a "lynch mob mentality".

Phil Collins - True Colors - YouTube

 

[NEGoldenAge]

we do not disagree. I listened to the presser live this morning, and I agree. The competitive advantage your addressing (I think) is in response to another poster who had his head up his posterior.

And, since you brought it up, good reference on the Catholic Church. I am making a leap and guessing that Paterno was Catholic. It's not much of a leap to think a guy brought up in the Catholic Church, especially one of his age, would handle a sexual abuse issue in this manner.

"Now look, Father Jerry, you can't keep doing this. This has to stop. We're going to strip you of your priesthood. You can continue here as a lectern and a lay person, but your days of saying mass are over. You may continue coaching CYO and conducting CCD classes, but you've got to behave."

I was agreeing with you. I was just trying to point out that competitive advantage is irrelevant in this case, so it is really not worth including that in an argument. I'm usually not a fan of analogies, but you made a pretty good one there.

 

[Deus Irae]

If that is really what you think, it is time to re-evaluate you medication regiment.

The university recieved a punishment that both fit the crime and tried to really target those most responsible while also focussing on the idea of athletics programs not becoming more important that the values that they are supposed to stand for. The masses aren't saying the punishment didn't go far enough which would be a requirement for it to be a "lynch mob mentality".

Phil Collins - True Colors - YouTube

You making false claims does not show anything about me. You claiming items are related does not make it so.