How solid are we at OLB/DE and ILB/MLB

[Ron Sellers]

A SLIGHT ALTERNATIVE (still 23 out of 25)

The arguments on Coles are convincing me that we should keep this top gunner. If I keep him, it would be instead of Dennard, who may have a special exemption or may be on the Practice Squad.

Now I have BARRETT and WHITE
and you have DENNARD and TARPINIAN

This is now a mor direct competition for the last 2 defensive spots

Personally I would prefer the higher ceiling of Dennard. If I recall correctly Barrett had played himself out of the starting position (or at least a large portion of the snaps split up amongst safeties) prior to his injury last year.

I'd slide Dennard onto PS and hope he clears waivers.

Unless Dennard gets arrested again I don't think there is any way that he would clear waivers. He slipped as far as he did in the draft due as much or more to the timing than the actual incident. With (hypothetically) there being a clean slate of five months teams would have something to go on; plus, there would be far less backlash for picking a guy up off waivers than drafting him days after an arrest.

Let's not forget that Dennard was projected to be drafted as early as the 2nd round by some.

 

[BlueThunder]

Do we see a Dennard to PUP scenario or maybe a Barrett on PUP

Which of the corners besides McCourty could play safety? Dowling?

It's tough having so many good players. You know there will be some tough cuts that will end up on other rosters. Just hope the right decisions are made on who they keep.

BTW...Is BBass really Belichick incognito?

 

[mayoclinic]

Do we see a Dennard to PUP scenario or maybe a Barrett on PUP

Anything's possible, but right now neither has an injury. The moment either practices in training camp, they are ineligible for PUP.

Which of the corners besides McCourty could play safety? Dowling?

McCourty and Sterling Moore played safety at times during the 2011 season. Ras-I Dowling and Alfonzo Dennard were both considered possible safety conversions when drafted, but neither has actual safety experience. Will Allen has been getting some time at safety during OTAs, FWIW.

 

[mgteich]

IMHO, Belichick will not count on Wilson to be the #3 safety out of the gate, the first off the bench and on the field if we choose to play 3 safeties.

I PRESUME that Gregory will be ready to start at safety.
=====================================

THE SITUATION AT SAFETY

1) We have CHUNG who has been injured a lot.

2) We have newbie Gregory who we expect to start Game (Training Camp is enough of a learning curve!).

3) Wilson is a rookie who hope can play safety in the nfl, and who hope will devlop inot a starter. As with most patriot rookies in the secondary, there may be a significant learning curve. BTW, is Wilson really a safety.

4) We have corners who have masquarated as safeties when there was abslutely no one else. They didn't look very good.

5) I am told that this is all we need. I am told that a player who started for us for the beginning of 2011 is not even worth having on the roster.
============

MY CONCLUSION
I can see dumping Brown for Cole or whichever STer you wish. HOWEVER, we need another safety. My candidate is Barrett. I can see someone beating him out in camp, but as of now, I have him penciled in as one of our safeties.

 

[Marqui]

MY CONCLUSION
I can see dumping Brown for Cole or whichever STer you wish. HOWEVER, we need another safety. My candidate is Barrett. I can see someone beating him out in camp, but as of now, I have him penciled in as one of our safeties.

Barrett started initially last year, but he was terrible. I think Will Allen has the best chance to be 4th safety if anyone.

 

[mayoclinic]

IMHO, Belichick will not count on Wilson to be the #3 safety out of the gate, the first off the bench and on the field if we choose to play 3 safeties.

I PRESUME that Gregory will be ready to start at safety.

I can see dumping Brown for Cole or whichever STer you wish. HOWEVER, we need another safety. My candidate is Barrett. I can see someone beating him out in camp, but as of now, I have him penciled in as one of our safeties.

Barrett started initially last year, but he was terrible. I think Will Allen has the best chance to be 4th safety if anyone.

I agree with Marqui. I'm much less worried about Wilson as the #3 safety than Barrett, who was God-awful last year. I think that if the Pats need more depth at safety they will use McCourty or Moore, both of whom played there at times in 2011.

BB changed safeties practically every quarter last year. He threw in Brown, Barrett, Ihedigbo, Moore and others trying to find something that works. Compared with that, Tavon Wilson as the #3 safety behind Chung and Gregory to start the season is a relative breeze.

 

[Nunchucks]

I see no reason why Wilson would not be the number 3 safety. There isn't much there in terms of depth. Last year, the Patriots were signing guys off the street and putting them back there, no reason to think Wilson will not be ready to go as the 3rd safety.

 

[mgteich]

The conclusion by manny seems to be that Wilson was drafted by Belichick (with 1 or 2 GM agreeing that he is a 2nd or 3rd round player), played some safety in college, and therefore must be qualified to contribute from Day One in Belichick very easy to learn defensive schemes. ??????

 

[BlueThunder]

The OLB/DE and ILB/MLB has evolved into a safety discussion....

If Allen slides to safety and is decent there, which a vet CB usually can handle, that makes things abit easier to sort out for the final back end roster.

CB might look like McCourty,Dowling,Arrington,Moore,Cole and Dennard.


Safety could be Chung,Gregory,Allen,Wilson.

It may be a Barrett/Cole/Allen battle for 2 spots.

 

[mayoclinic]

It may be a Barrett/Cole/Allen battle for 2 spots.

More likely for 1 spot. Chung/Gregory/Wilson + McCourty/Dowling/Arrington/Moore/Dennard = 8 DBs, with likely 1 more spot for the 3 guys you mentioned. I favor Cole, personally, but it's an open competition.

 

[ay-yo]

More likely for 1 spot. Chung/Gregory/Wilson + McCourty/Dowling/Arrington/Moore/Dennard = 8 DBs, with likely 1 more spot for the 3 guys you mentioned. I favor Cole, personally, but it's an open competition.

Considering that 5 DB's are on the field for roughly 50% of the game I see us keeping 10 DB's

 

[BlueThunder]

Guess the difference is I was assuming 10 on the back end.....6CB + 4S

I was looking at a 9 DL + 6LB set up on Defense.

The split between O and D could also go 26-O + 24-D if BB wants to keep 6WR, 9OL, 3TE,3QB, and 5RB's...

Still too early to predict breakdown IMHO

 

[mgteich]

Threads develop.

We seem to agree that we carry at least 6 DL's, 9 LB's, 9 DB's, plus 1 0more player.
We seem to agree on the LB roster structure: 4 DE/OLB's, 4 ILB/MLB/LB, plus a 9th who is usually a top special teams.

We seem to agree on 7 of the defensive backs:
McCourty, Dowling, Arrington, Moore
Chung, Gregory and Wilson

CONCLUSION: Understanding that there will be cmp surprises and injrues, we are almost set on 22 players: 6 DL's, 9 LB's and & DB's. Of course there will be compeition for the 6th DL spot, for the 4th ILB spot and for the 9th LB spot, but we know the players and compeition will decided the result.
==============================================

THE LAST 3 DEFENSIVE ROSTER SPOTS - THE TWO DEFENSIVE BACKS
I think that we all agree that we need a corner and safety (although some have a corner moving to safety). My last pair was Coles and Barrett. I think that these are solid choices for the 5th DB and the 4th safety. Allen could certainly beat out Barrett. I would welcome that result.

THE LAST 3 DEFENSIVE ROSTER SPOTS - DEFENSIVE PLAYER NUMBER 25
The reality is that this roster spot can be used for any defensive or special team position. The reality is camp injuries will likely determine who is in this roster spot for Game 1, Game 2. Game 3 and beyond. We are used to have a revolving door for one roster spot or two,

In this thread, some want a 9th OL, some want a 10th defensive back and some would prefer a player who is primarily a special teamer (who could be a DB or LB). My choice is a LB/STer. My last two linebackers are Carpenter and White.

The OLB/DE and ILB/MLB has evolved into a safety discussion....

If Allen slides to safety and is decent there, which a vet CB usually can handle, that makes things abit easier to sort out for the final back end roster.

CB might look like McCourty,Dowling,Arrington,Moore,Cole and Dennard.


Safety could be Chung,Gregory,Allen,Wilson.

It may be a Barrett/Cole/Allen battle for 2 spots.

 

[Ring 6]

The OLB/DE and ILB/MLB has evolved into a safety discussion....

If Allen slides to safety and is decent there, which a vet CB usually can handle, that makes things abit easier to sort out for the final back end roster.

CB might look like McCourty,Dowling,Arrington,Moore,Cole and Dennard.


Safety could be Chung,Gregory,Allen,Wilson.

It may be a Barrett/Cole/Allen battle for 2 spots.

I don't think we keep 6 corners. Esp if one of the safeties is a converted corner.

 

[BlueThunder]

I don't think we keep 6 corners. Esp if one of the safeties is a converted corner.

Could be.....would give an extra player for front end of the D or an extra player on Offense.

Going to be a tough cut where ever they have to trim. As mentioned tho, injuries or recovering from surgery will probably ease the pain early on as a couple players may start on the PUP list.

 

[mgteich]

I think that 5 corners and 4 safeties should be fine. Even 5 corners is a lot, unless the 5th is top STer.

I don't think we keep 6 corners. Esp if one of the safeties is a converted corner.

 

[mgteich]

Most of us have found that we need a total of 10 DE/OLB and linebackers (including ST/LB's).

6 DL, 10 LB (DE/OLB, ILB/MLB and LB/ST), 5 CB, and 4 S.

Could be.....would give an extra player for front end of the D or an extra player on Offense.

Going to be a tough cut where ever they have to trim. As mentioned tho, injuries or recovering from surgery will probably ease the pain early on as a couple players may start on the PUP list.

 

[Ring 6]

Most of us have found that we need a total of 10 DE/OLB and linebackers (including ST/LB's).

6 DL, 10 LB (DE/OLB, ILB/MLB and LB/ST), 5 CB, and 4 S.

I'm not sure if 10 DE/OLB and LBs are necessarily NEEDED or if its that we have so much talent there we need 10 to not cut someone we would like them to keep....
4 ILB and 4 OLB in the 34 (OLB and RDE in the 43) has always been the basic standard, talent issues aside.

 

[Guimond3434]

Most of your ST'ers come from the back-half of your defense. Guys who are 4th-6th on the CB depth chart and 4-5th on the Safety depth chart all play very prominent roles and make up 3/4's of your ST's unit.

This is also a defense that plays sub-packages over 65% of the time. that means, at times, 4-5 CB's on the field at once. Sometimes 3-4 safeties even. You need an extreme amount of depth at DB to successfully play in sub-packages as much as we do. Look at last year....we always had at least 3/4 healthy safeties on the team at one time or another and at least 4 CB's (that i can recall), but even so....we had to play Slater, Ventrone, etc. The amount of DB bodies our defense calls for is a lot greater then most teams.

So i guess that was my long-way of saying that I fully expect this team to keep at least 6 CB's and 4 Safeties...maybe even 7 CB's. BB once said "CB's are a lot like Pitchers in baseball...you can never have too many of them".

 

[mgteich]

5 OL's are on the field 100%. Should we keep even more than 10 OL's?[

QUOTE=ay-yo;3059704]Considering that 5 DB's are on the field for roughly 50% of the game I see us keeping 10 DB's[/QUOTE]