Belichick + Patriots leagues best at drafting All-Pro Talent

[livinginthe past]

Despite being something of a draft day buffoon (I can think of 4/5 posters on here who could do a way better job) Bill has managed to fluke his way to being the best at evaluating and drafting All-Pro talent in the league in the last 10 years.

The New England Patriots and Cleveland's old friend, Bill Belichick, find more stars through the NFL Draft than any other team

Fifteen AP All-Pros from 2002-11, excluding special-teams players, were drafted by the Patriots since quarterback Rich Gannon in 1987, dating back to before Belichick was the coach. Not surprisingly, the Patriots have won more games than any other team over the last 10 seasons.

Article here:

New England Patriots best, Cleveland Browns worst at finding All-Pros in the NFL Draft | cleveland.com

 

[scout]

Despite being something of a draft day buffoon (I can think of 4/5 posters on here who could do a way better job) Bill has managed to fluke his way to being the best at evaluating and drafting All-Pro talent in the league in the last 10 years.



Article here:

New England Patriots best, Cleveland Browns worst at finding All-Pros in the NFL Draft | cleveland.com

I don't get the "fluke" reference. Its sounds like a back handed compliment.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I don't get the "fluke" reference. Its sounds like a back handed compliment.

He being facetious and giving a shot to the arm chair gm's on this site.

 

[NSPF]

I don't get the "fluke" reference. Its sounds like a back handed compliment.

He is making fun of posters that claim BB is bad at drafting.

15 sounds like a lot of all-pros. I can't think of who they all might be.

Meanwhile, the Brown's TWO all-pros in ten years is impressively bad. Especially with all of those top ten picks. You'd think random chance could do better.

 

[Deus Irae]

Despite being something of a draft day buffoon (I can think of 4/5 posters on here who could do a way better job) Bill has managed to fluke his way to being the best at evaluating and drafting All-Pro talent in the league in the last 10 years.



Article here:

New England Patriots best, Cleveland Browns worst at finding All-Pros in the NFL Draft | cleveland.com

2006-2009 has Yielded Gostkowski, Meriweather, Mayo and Vollmer. BB jettisoned Meriweather when he was coming off of a Pro Bowl appearance, so we can assume that BB didn't consider him Pro Bowl caliber.

Looking at it that way, and combining it with the rest of the drafted players for 2006-2009, we get a much different picture than the one you're trying to paint with your sarcasm. You've got a kicker, a top 10 pick that worked out as he should, and a RT. The rest of the 38 picks used during that time has yielded the following on the roster:

Chung
Pryor
Slater
Edelman
Brace

which means that the 2006-2009 period yielded a crappy ROI in terms of current roster players. So, as is so often the case when it comes to these discussions, the key is how you frame your argument.

 

[AzPatsFan]

2006-2009 has Yielded Gostkowski, Meriweather, Mayo and Vollmer. BB jettisoned Meriweather when he was coming off of a Pro Bowl appearance, so we can assume that BB didn't consider him Pro Bowl caliber.

Looking at it that way, and combining it with the rest of the drafted players for 2006-2009, we get a much different picture than the one you're trying to paint with your sarcasm. You've got a kicker, a top 10 pick that worked out as he should, and a RT. The rest of the 38 picks used during that time has yielded the following on the roster:

Chung
Pryor
Slater
Edelman
Brace

which means that the 2006-2009 period yielded a crappy ROI in terms of current roster players. So, as is so often the case when it comes to these discussions, the key is how you frame your argument.

DI,

I respect your views but in the case of the critiques of the Draft you are all wet. The proof of the pudding is the NFL record over the last three years. The best in the league, the HFA in the AFC, and a super Bowl apearance in the last three years in nothing to sneeze at, despite always picking near the end of the First round.

The fact that your "failures" all young, and have not yet reached their primes does nothing for your arguments.

I expect the dweebs and pseudo-GMs, so full of themselves to criticize. They coudln't find their own ass with both hands. But their talk is not worth the hot air they expell.

I kind of expect more from guys like you.

 

[Deus Irae]

DI,

I respect your views but in the case of the critiques of the Draft you are all wet. The proof of the pudding is the NFL record over the last three years. The best in the league, the HFA in the AFC, and a super Bowl apearance in the last three years in nothing to sneeze at, despite always picking near the end of the First round.

The fact that your "failures" all young, and have not yet reached their primes does nothing for your arguments.

I expect the dweebs and pseudo-GMs, so full of themselves to criticize. They coudln't find their own ass with both hands. But their talk is not worth the hot air they expell.

I kind of expect more from guys like you.

Re-read your post. You'll find that you made multiple mistakes of fact and/or shaded the important truth, which helped lead you to a conclusion that's wrong.

Before you do, let me just point out that this is 2012, which means that the 2006-2008 picks are either at the end of their first contracts or beyond them, and also that the "it takes 3 years" argument/requirement has been met for the entirety of the 2006-2009 draft classes.

 

[patsderoer]

Meanwhile, the Brown's TWO all-pros in ten years is impressively bad. Especially with all of those top ten picks. You'd think random chance could do better.

Nah, it just goes to show very clearly how many crappy players are hyped up by the draft "experts" as "can't miss' top10 prospects. Browns just did their job and took the "can't miss" top10 players, and look where it got them.

 

[livinginthe past]

Deus,

I have no intention of engaging you on this issue - you point blank refuse to address Belichicks drafting prowess in a context that compares him to other NFL teams over the same time period.

Instead you would rather use the more arbitrary "how I feel about Belichicks drafting ability" measuring stick.

Thats just a heads up to deter from wasting anymore of your valuable time on this thread.

 

[Deus Irae]

Deus,

I have no intention of engaging you on this issue - you point blank refuse to address Belichicks drafting prowess in a context that compares him to other NFL teams over the same time period.

Instead you would rather use the more arbitrary "how I feel about Belichicks drafting ability" measuring stick.

Thats just a heads up to deter from wasting anymore of your valuable time on this thread.

Your argument was a foolish one, particularly given the history of this debate on the boards. That's not my fault, it's yours for just taking a study and acting as if it was the end all/be all, particularly when the CHFF "10 years!" thread was already done. The strawman of the "last 10 years" is just that, since few, if any, are griping about the entirety of BB's drafting history. My refusing to bite on one of the weakest rejoinders ever put forth on this board ("but compare him!") doesn't suddenly make your strawman a solid argument.

As for you not engaging me, that's not a surprise, nor is it really necessary. I'm sure you know your post was not well thought out. And only a fool would think my 12:06 pm post was just a "how I feel about Belichicks drafting ability" post.

 

[Triumph]

He is making fun of posters that claim BB is bad at drafting.

He has been.

If you dont believe that bad drafts have caused the Patroits problems in the win column then what exactly has caused NE to slip? IE: Butler, Wheatley and Wilhite have been associated with one of the worst pass defenses in the NFL. Thats not going to win you many Super Bowls when you have to face the best in the NFL. Regular season games, yes.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

bad drafts have caused the Patroits problems in the win column...

really?

what are the "problems in the win column" they are suffering from, relative to their NFL competition?

Are there some 6-10 seasons I slept through?

 

[Patriot 37]

He has been.

If you dont believe that bad drafts have caused the Patroits problems in the win column then what exactly has caused NE to slip? IE: Butler, Wheatley and Wilhite have been associated with one of the worst pass defenses in the NFL. Thats not going to win you many Super Bowls when you have to face the best in the NFL. Regular season games, yes.

BB is bad at Drafting ?

If you're bad at something that means you're below average. So you can name 16 teams who have drafted better than the Patriots in the last 12 years LOL!!!

Don't do what these other idiots do a pick a specific year or pick. He's been here since 2000 compare all his drafts to all the drafts of other teams during that time. You won't find more than 3 teams that are in the Patriots league.

 

[NSPF]

He has been.

If you dont believe that bad drafts have caused the Patroits problems in the win column then what exactly has caused NE to slip? IE: Butler, Wheatley and Wilhite have been associated with one of the worst pass defenses in the NFL. Thats not going to win you many Super Bowls when you have to face the best in the NFL. Regular season games, yes.

Problems in the win column? NE is slipping? Are you freaking kidding me? I guess the Giants are the only team in the whole NFL that drafts well.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Not sure how accurate the information in the article is. A quick scan of the list of AP All Pro teams from 2002-2011, excluding ST'ers, shows Baltimore with 17 All Pros:

E.Reed - 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2010
R.Lewis - 2003, 2004, 2008, 2009
J.Lewis - 2003
A.Thomas - 2006
C.McCallister - 2007
Suggs - 2011
J.Ogden - 2002, 2003
Ngata - 2010, 2011

As for the Patriots, I came up with 13

Seymour - 2003, 2004, 2005
Brady - 2007,2010
Light - 2007
Mankins - 2010
Mayo - 2010
Samuel - 2007
Law - 2003
Gronk- 2011
Gannon - 2002
C.Martin - 2004

He also states the Browns have only had two All Pro selections, Joe Thomas has been an All Pro the last three years - 2009, 2010, 2011.

List of NFL All-Pro Teams - Packers Wiki

 

[Kjmass1]

Winning teams will have more All-Pros than losing teams. Win more, more All Pros. The stat is as simple as that.

Sort that list by winning average, and the 49ers, Ravens, Bears, and Eagles are the only teams that have more All-Pros than the trends would indicate.

Are you surprised that the Browns, Lions, Rams, Redskins, and Dolphins are all at the bottom of the list?

I wouldn't say that BB and Patriots are the best at drafting All Pros..I'd phrase it as "BB and the Patriots are one of the best teams at assembling talent that wins games, which in turn leads to more All Pros."

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't get the "fluke" reference. Its sounds like a back handed compliment.

He was being sarcastic..

 

[DaBruinz]

He has been.

If you dont believe that bad drafts have caused the Patroits problems in the win column then what exactly has caused NE to slip? IE: Butler, Wheatley and Wilhite have been associated with one of the worst pass defenses in the NFL. Thats not going to win you many Super Bowls when you have to face the best in the NFL. Regular season games, yes.

Actually, none of those three were associated with one of the worst pass defenses in the NFL. They weren't on the team this past year.

 

[DaBruinz]

Not sure how accurate the information in the article is. A quick scan of the list of AP All Pro teams from 2002-2011, excluding ST'ers, shows Baltimore with 17 All Pros:

E.Reed - 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2010
R.Lewis - 2003, 2004, 2008, 2009
J.Lewis - 2003
A.Thomas - 2006
C.McCallister - 2007
Suggs - 2011
J.Ogden - 2002, 2003
Ngata - 2010, 2011

As for the Patriots, I came up with 13

Seymour - 2003, 2004, 2005
Brady - 2007,2010
Light - 2007
Mankins - 2010
Mayo - 2010
Samuel - 2007
Law - 2003
Gronk- 2011
Gannon - 2002
C.Martin - 2004

He also states the Browns have only had two All Pro selections, Joe Thomas has been an All Pro the last three years - 2009, 2010, 2011.

List of NFL All-Pro Teams - Packers Wiki

The only way to come up with 15 for the Patriots is to Include Welker and Gostkowski while removing Gannon since it said "Since Gannon was selected" which means you don't include him.

The problem with that is that Welker was not a Patriots selection. He was traded for.

Also, when the person said he ignored special teams, I don't believe he meant Kicker and Punter, but the special teams category.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

The only way to come up with 15 for the Patriots is to Include Welker and Gostkowski while removing Gannon since it said "Since Gannon was selected" which means you don't include him.

The problem with that is that Welker was not a Patriots selection. He was traded for.

Also, when the person said he ignored special teams, I don't believe he meant Kicker and Punter, but the special teams category.

Yeah, any way you slice it his numbers are off. You can add Gostkowski, lose Gannon or keep Gannon and the numbers still don't add up to 15. You can't use Welker anymore than you can use Rodney, Vrabel or Moss. Even if they had 15, the Ravens still had more. And how can he say the Browns only have 2 when Thomas has been an All Pro the last three years.


It looks like he just didn't do very good research, his numbers were off on the three teams I bothered to look at.