Did The Baltimore Game Change Anyones Views On "Team Needs"?

[manxman2601]

I think it has for me, not in terms of positions, but in terms of priorities:

1. I think that everyone in our secondary is replaceable. That doesn't mean that we should do so in one off-season, but that no-one in the secondary (and that includes Chung) should prevent a corner or safety being drafted/signed. As ever, the secondary is a high priority.

2. A deep threat receiver. The Ravens played with the field in front of them limiting Gronk/Hernandez to relatively short plays. Branch was a non-factor and the only bomb of the game was thrown in the direction of Matthew Slater. All this made Brady look uncomfortable, forcing throws and not playing with the same aplomb he usually does. I think a deep threat WR is now a HIGH priority. That doesn't necessarily mean we have to go out and get a no1 receiver, but we do need someone defenses will respect deep. Our Torrey Smith if you like.

3. Outside pass rush. Less of a priority but still up there. In the last two games, our D/Line has been exceptional in pressuring the pocket but there's still a lack from the edge. Anderson did well yesterday, Ninkovich the week before but there is no consistency there. Our D/Line has taken the pressure off the outside guys. Which leads to...

4. Personally I think our D/Line have been exceptional in the playoffs. Love and Deadrick have really stepped up as the season has progressed. Unless there's a top quality D/lineman available, like Brockers, I think this has really dropped down the list of priorities.

5. Center. Would be nice to have a good one, but does anyone think really think our O/line needs to be prioritised? They give us enough of a running game to keep defenses honest to the play action and keep Brady upright most of the time. with our offense, that's all they really need to do. Sure, if the right value is there, then get the OC of the future, but this isn't a desperate position of need.

I believe that's the order in which our needs should be prioritised. That doesn't necessarily mean we should be drafting in that order, I'm a strong believer in BPA, or more precisely, best value available, but that order should be borne in mind come free agency and the draft.

 

[borg]

I think it has for me, not in terms of positions, but in terms of priorities:

1. I think that everyone in our secondary is replaceable. That doesn't mean that we should do so in one off-season, but that no-one in the secondary (and that includes Chung) should prevent a corner or safety being drafted/signed. As ever, the secondary is a high priority.

2. A deep threat receiver. The Ravens played with the field in front of them limiting Gronk/Hernandez to relatively short plays. Branch was a non-factor and the only bomb of the game was thrown in the direction of Matthew Slater. All this made Brady look uncomfortable, forcing throws and not playing with the same aplomb he usually does. I think a deep threat WR is now a HIGH priority. That doesn't necessarily mean we have to go out and get a no1 receiver, but we do need someone defenses will respect deep. Our Torrey Smith if you like.

3. Outside pass rush. Less of a priority but still up there. In the last two games, our D/Line has been exceptional in pressuring the pocket but there's still a lack from the edge. Anderson did well yesterday, Ninkovich the week before but there is no consistency there. Our D/Line has taken the pressure off the outside guys. Which leads to...

4. Personally I think our D/Line have been exceptional in the playoffs. Love and Deadrick have really stepped up as the season has progressed. Unless there's a top quality D/lineman available, like Brockers, I think this has really dropped down the list of priorities.

5. Center. Would be nice to have a good one, but does anyone think really think our O/line needs to be prioritised? They give us enough of a running game to keep defenses honest to the play action and keep Brady upright most of the time. with our offense, that's all they really need to do. Sure, if the right value is there, then get the OC of the future, but this isn't a desperate position of need.

I believe that's the order in which our needs should be prioritised. That doesn't necessarily mean we should be drafting in that order, I'm a strong believer in BPA, or more precisely, best value available, but that order should be borne in mind come free agency and the draft.

Everything you wrote....and in particular...
After watching teams like the Ravens and Jets press our WRs at the line, it is clear strong secondary teams have little respect for our WRs. Mathew Slater is our deep threat? Edelman out in the wings? The field would open up dramatically with a stud WR...no question about it

 

[Wilfork#75]

I pretty much agree with everything you said manxman. I don't think this game really changes anything and I dont think the result of the Super Bowl should have any real effect. This team obviously does have needs, but I think we are in a good position to go BPA. I think the D-line has been underrated all year and I don't think we will go that way in the first round unless someone like Brockers falls. The reason for this is because the type of DL we look for has become overvalued, so it is highly unlikely one would be BPA at the end of round 1. I think DB could be a likely option once again, especially if someone falls. If Dre Kirkpatrick drops (which is highly unlikely) I would be all over him. But in the end I think we are in a good spot to just wait it out and see what happens.

In terms of a deep threat WR, it's obviously a need. But what I think is important is not to get a 1 trick pony, we need a guy that can also be an every down WR. The reason for this really is I don't think Brady is great at throwing the deep ball. While he was fantastic in 07, I think over the past few years he has struggled throwing it deep and has turned it over quite a few times. This could be because of the lack of a deep threat, but he has also made some bad decisions. So I think the deep ball needs to be more of a surprise to catch the defense off guard. Now, whenever Slater enters the game the defense knows its a deep pass, so a WR that is only a threat deep is less effective. I think a versatile WR, that has the ability to go deep, with either speed or size would be ideal.

 

[MSU]

What about a kick returner?

 

[Wilfork#75]

What about a kick returner?

Take a knee and go from the 20. That's what I think every time I see a kickoff.

 

[NePatriots]

...does anyone think really think our O/line needs to be prioritised?

If Matt Light retires, if Sebastian Vollmer can't stay healthy, if Dan Koppen isn't re-signed... absolutely - the top priority.

If none of those three are true, then no.

 

[manxman2601]

I pretty much agree with everything you said manxman. I don't think this game really changes anything and I dont think the result of the Super Bowl should have any real effect. This team obviously does have needs, but I think we are in a good position to go BPA. I think the D-line has been underrated all year and I don't think we will go that way in the first round unless someone like Brockers falls. The reason for this is because the type of DL we look for has become overvalued, so it is highly unlikely one would be BPA at the end of round 1. I think DB could be a likely option once again, especially if someone falls. If Dre Kirkpatrick drops (which is highly unlikely) I would be all over him. But in the end I think we are in a good spot to just wait it out and see what happens.

In terms of a deep threat WR, it's obviously a need. But what I think is important is not to get a 1 trick pony, we need a guy that can also be an every down WR. The reason for this really is I don't think Brady is great at throwing the deep ball. While he was fantastic in 07, I think over the past few years he has struggled throwing it deep and has turned it over quite a few times. This could be because of the lack of a deep threat, but he has also made some bad decisions. So I think the deep ball needs to be more of a surprise to catch the defense off guard. Now, whenever Slater enters the game the defense knows its a deep pass, so a WR that is only a threat deep is less effective. I think a versatile WR, that has the ability to go deep, with either speed or size would be ideal.

Agree completely with you on the WR. Who that guy is in the draft I don't know, most receivers don't seem to have the deep speed to perform successfully in the possession game and the deep threat game.

I'm high on Sanu but his speed is a question mark. I know you like Criner but I think there are reasons why he is rated so low by the experts (mental issues I've seen hinted at). Dwight Jones seems like a possibility but he seems un-patriot like with his drops and sloppy performance.

So here are four names I think qualify as all round receivers who are draftable, have the skills but also have big question marks:

Tommy Streeter
Jeff Fuller (think his stock is going to soar)
Rueben Randle
Jarius Wright

Thoughts?

 

[manxman2601]

What about a kick returner?

I'd also add Joe Adams (reservedly) to my previous list. Would fulfill that function. Another double dip draft?

 

[Snake Eyes]

Brandon Lloyd would be a really nice all around receiver with deep-threat capability.

 

[Wilfork#75]

Agree completely with you on the WR. Who that guy is in the draft I don't know, most receivers don't seem to have the deep speed to perform successfully in the possession game and the deep threat game.

I'm high on Sanu but his speed is a question mark. I know you like Criner but I think there are reasons why he is rated so low by the experts (mental issues I've seen hinted at). Dwight Jones seems like a possibility but he seems un-patriot like with his drops and sloppy performance.

So here are four names I think qualify as all round receivers who are draftable, have the skills but also have big question marks:

Tommy Streeter
Jeff Fuller (think his stock is going to soar)
Rueben Randle
Jarius Wright

Thoughts?

Yeah, identifying the need is the easy part, finding the right guy is the hard part. I think it's also important to remember that a deep threat doesn't just have to be about speed, and especially with Brady's struggles throwing the deep ball, a big, physical WR that can fight for the ball down field would be ideal. That's why I am so high on Jeffery and Criner. Of the guys you listed, I really like Sanu but I think he will be out of range. Jones seems to fit the bill physically, but with the question marks around his hands and polish, would you be comfortable paying the market price of a mid 2nd rounder. For me that's a no. Wright is too small for what I personally would be looking for and I don't even have Jeff Fuller on my board. Maybe I am too harsh on him because of my expectations this year, but no player has disappointed me more this season than Fuller. My biggest problem is when I watched him play this season he showed no heart, he didn't fight and didn't compete. I can tolerate taking some plays off, but not competing is unacceptable.

So that leaves us with the two guys on your list I'm really interested in, Randle and Streeter. Both have great size and adequate speed to be a threat. However, both a raw and I haven't seen enough of them (especially Streeter) to see how they would translate to this offence. Another guy I will throw in with these two is Stephen Hill from Georgia Tech who is another big, raw and athletic receiver. The key with these guys is market value. Randle seems like a high 2nd, Streeter 3rd and it's tough to tell for Hill. But all of these guys have the potential to skyrocket going into the draft because of their athletic ability. For raw guys like these I wouldn't want to go higher than a 3rd because of the complexity of this system and the time it would take them to adapt. So it will be interesting to watch it all play out

 

[Wilfork#75]

I'd also add Joe Adams (reservedly) to my previous list. Would fulfill that function. Another double dip draft?

This could be where I would look at a smaller guy like Wright, Adams or T.Y. Hilton. Go get a bigger WR that can command double teams and be a threat deep, then add the smaller quicker guy that also doubles as a special teams ace. I think the versatility guys like Edelman offer the roster could make a double dip at WR very possible, even if we sign Lloyd.

 

[manxman2601]

and I don't even have Jeff Fuller on my board. Maybe I am too harsh on him because of my expectations this year, but no player has disappointed me more this season than Fuller. My biggest problem is when I watched him play this season he showed no heart, he didn't fight and didn't compete. I can tolerate taking some plays off, but not competing is unacceptable.

I understand the reservations about Jeff Fuller, but man, when he's on, he's on. He makes the position look effortless. A full investigation would need to be done on him, but in terms of upside, I think he might be the best receiver in the class so long as someone can get him motivated. Big "if" I grant however.

 

[Wilfork#75]

I understand the reservations about Jeff Fuller, but man, when he's on, he's on. He makes the position look effortless. A full investigation would need to be done on him, but in terms of upside, I think he might be the best receiver in the class so long as someone can get him motivated. Big "if" I grant however.

I loved his 2010 tape and had him in most of my mocks for the first half of the season when I was trying to justify his lack of production. If we could get 2010 Jeff Fuller I would take him in a heartbeat. The thing I like most about him is his catch radius, its probably 2nd only to Jeffery in this draft. I love those type of guys because you don't need a perfect throw, they will work to go get the ball. Unfortunately I didn't see any of that from Fuller this year. In the 6th or 7th I'd probably still take a chance on him, but I couldn't justify any higher.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Not a whit.

Since preseason, I've advocated drafting Minnifield, Branch, and Wright (Jarius; Kendall is going too high for my tastes). We could use developmental players on the O-line and D-line, but otherwise I think we're pretty well set.

My mocks have consistently included trading the Saints pick for another 2nd and a 2013 1st (earmarked ahead of time for Star Lotulelei; no matter how high he's projected to go, use our ammo to go get him), and then the three players I listed above. I've written up my reviews on their strengths and scheme fits with this team many times, so I'll leave it at that for now. As for late round guys, I like Shawn Asiata, Kheeston Randall, Dominique Hamilton, and possibly Akiem Hicks (the current trendy boom/bust sleeper).

A guy who can player center/guard and a guy who can play tackle/guard are also late round considerations. Otherwise, I'd rather not add a lot of youth to this squad just yet. Let's develop the players we do have. I remain extremely hopeful for my once-and-future binky Dowling, and Carter intrigues due to 1) his increased PS salary, and 2) his team-high 8 practice player of the week awards.

 

[patsfaninpa]

These last couple of games convince me that we're a 3-4 team. Start your mocks assuming that's our defense. Secondly, we do need a wr who can play outside the numbers. We must bring Welker back. I'd bring Branch back as a 3rd receiver. Need someone to do what we thought Ochocinco might. You listening Brandon Lloyd? Still need a FS tops. I'm hoping like hell we sign Dashon Goldson. He's a stud.

1. FS - Hope we fix thru free agency. Also draft one with 2b or 3
2. WR - Keep Welker and Branch. Sign a vet. Alson draft one 2b or 3
3. OLB - 1st Round
4. DE - 1st Round
5. CB - 2nd Round

Need to keep these guys on roster already; Welker, Love, M. Anderson, D. Connolly, BJGE, Branch and G. Warren.

Sign Dashon Goldson and Brandon Lloyd.

Draft
1A Fletcher Cox - DE - Miss St
1B Vinny Curry - OLB - Marshall - After a trade down
2a Brandon Boykin - CB - Georgia
2b I'm terrible about ranking wr's. Probably because I can't stand most of them.
3 Tramain Thomas - FS - Arkansas

 

[Sciz]

Goldson is extremely overrated. You could have put Meriweather in his uniform yesterday and nobody would have known the difference. Lloyd could fix the short term WR need. I still think the best way to fix the secondary is to grab a CB high and let him start opposite Dowling with McCourty and Chung at safety. There just aren't enough good safeties in the league, so moving a CB there is going to become way more common in the near future.

 

[rdf63]

I think it has for me, not in terms of positions, but in terms of priorities:

1. I think that everyone in our secondary is replaceable. That doesn't mean that we should do so in one off-season, but that no-one in the secondary (and that includes Chung) should prevent a corner or safety being drafted/signed. As ever, the secondary is a high priority.

2. A deep threat receiver. The Ravens played with the field in front of them limiting Gronk/Hernandez to relatively short plays. Branch was a non-factor and the only bomb of the game was thrown in the direction of Matthew Slater. All this made Brady look uncomfortable, forcing throws and not playing with the same aplomb he usually does. I think a deep threat WR is now a HIGH priority. That doesn't necessarily mean we have to go out and get a no1 receiver, but we do need someone defenses will respect deep. Our Torrey Smith if you like.

3. Outside pass rush. Less of a priority but still up there. In the last two games, our D/Line has been exceptional in pressuring the pocket but there's still a lack from the edge. Anderson did well yesterday, Ninkovich the week before but there is no consistency there. Our D/Line has taken the pressure off the outside guys. Which leads to...

4. Personally I think our D/Line have been exceptional in the playoffs. Love and Deadrick have really stepped up as the season has progressed. Unless there's a top quality D/lineman available, like Brockers, I think this has really dropped down the list of priorities.

5. Center. Would be nice to have a good one, but does anyone think really think our O/line needs to be prioritised? They give us enough of a running game to keep defenses honest to the play action and keep Brady upright most of the time. with our offense, that's all they really need to do. Sure, if the right value is there, then get the OC of the future, but this isn't a desperate position of need.

I believe that's the order in which our needs should be prioritised. That doesn't necessarily mean we should be drafting in that order, I'm a strong believer in BPA, or more precisely, best value available, but that order should be borne in mind come free agency and the draft.

Excellent comments and the game didn't show us anything new but confirmed what we need in FA and the draft
1. There is a real need for a safety and the Pats have to consider going after a player like Laron Landry with a 1-year "show me your worth more next year deal" and also draft players like Mark Barron. This is an absolute priority. The Pats also have to look at Iloka or Aaron Henry in late 3rd or 4th rounds.
2. Deep threat is needed and Brandon Llody can help the Pats but they have to consider a project player like Randle or Streeter. The Pats need a good size and physical WR to complement Welker and possibly Lloyd.
3. If Carter can play, sign him to a 1 or 2 year deal. Ninko is a good complementary DE/LB but we need a real pass rush threat. I want 2 or the first 3 picks to focus on DE/DT and DE/OLB players including:
Fletcher Cox
Michael Brokers
Nick Perry
Andre Branch
Dont'a Hightower
Vinny Curry
4. DL line really needs a strong at least one strong/phyiscal/athletic pick but it is improving a lot. Love and Deaderick have been solid on the DL and hopefully Brace will start to do something.
5. The Pats OL is pretty solid and have some good young players. The Pats have to consider getting a OL if Vollmer is injured but also a center. There are some good centers in the draft and they will be available in the 4th rounds. I would pick a Center any higher than the 4th round and the ones to consider are:
Michael Brewster, C, Ohio State
David Molk, C, Michigan
A couple of other players like Nix of Pitt and Potter of Boise State (both G/T) need to be considered because of their flexibility.

 

[DaBruinz]

Connolly has really stepped up at Center. However, he is a UFA. As is Koppen. Wendell is an RFA. So, I see center as a position that needs to be taken care of. Either through re-signing Connolly or drafting someone like Konz or Jones.

Safety/CB - This is a big priority. Arrington's best work this year has come as the "STAR" or Slot Corner. Sterling Moore is shaping up to be a quality player. He may only be a quality JAG, but it's still quality. Dowling looked good in the one game. Especially since he started without much of any training camp. McCourty moving back to FS wouldn't be bad, but talk last year was that was where they were going to go with Dowling.

Stephon Gilmore and Trumaine Johnson are two candidates to make the switch from CB to S. Minnifield for CB and Iloka for Safety have been mentioned as well.

WR: I don't see Branch coming back. He's basically done. I also don't see Ocho back. Brandon Lloyd has all but said he wants to come to NE because of McDaniels. Welker will get re-signed. They DO need a young guy for the outside position and they need a guy who can do KR/PR while he gets his feet wet.

Patrick Edwards is my binkie for the WR/KR/PR. I see more "Wes Welker" in him than I have any other person. He's work ethic is amazing. He was a walk-on at Houston and proceeded to become their top WR. For the younger guy for the outside, the Pats could look in the draft at any number of players. This actually seems to be an amazingly strong draft for WRs..

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

No. Why would team needs change after one game? That would be highly reactionary.

Also any good play by the D-line is moot because we're going back to the 3-4.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Goldson is extremely overrated. You could have put Meriweather in his uniform yesterday and nobody would have known the difference. Lloyd could fix the short term WR need. I still think the best way to fix the secondary is to grab a CB high and let him start opposite Dowling with McCourty and Chung at safety. There just aren't enough good safeties in the league, so moving a CB there is going to become way more common in the near future.

You're going to have to support this, because after watching upwards of 10 49ers games this season I couldn't disagree more. He's a stud that's severely underrated.