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Thanks for posting this! I too have been following the SOPA and PIPA bills for the past few months. I'm not too thrilled about it. Thanks for raising awareness!


I don't know if anyone here has accessed Wikipedia this morning, but there's a proposal I've been following for a while now that I think everyone in here needs to know about because it could potentially have a bearing here at our site, and thousands of others.

The act is called SOPA (Stop Online Piracy Act) which, if made law, would expand the ability of U.S. law enforcement and copyright holders to fight online trafficking in copyrighted intellectual property. I have no issue with the concept of what they're trying to achieve, but the problem is that the language in the proposed law is too broad and it could have a direct impact on sites like this which contains a lot of "user generated material" (ie: posts, threads, etc.)

As you know I've been active against having people copy/paste complete articles, etc. to make sure we stay within the necessary guidelines so that we're not infringing on any copyrights. I think for the most part we do a good job, but obviously it's not perfect and it's obviously hard to catch everything.

The problem is several of the provisions in SOPA will force ISPs hosting websites (ie: the company that hosts our servers) to potentially disconnect us from the Internet if there’s a claim - unsubstantiated or not - that we're infringing against copyright, regardless of if it has not been fully proved in court. The argument is that this would make it easy for someone to make false or weak claims against the site to take a us offline until we went to court.

That's a headache I'm not prepared to deal with. The number of threats I get each year via e-mail from angry members from other teams we remove are pretty unreal and obviously you guys don't see them, so giving any additional ammunition backed up by a law like this would be a potentially huge issue. I've been talking with other sites and it's a very real concern that we're all potentially going to be faced with if this goes through, unless it's rewritten to better target the sites that are really the ones they're looking to address.

Needless to say this is something serious enough that everyone should be aware of. I noticed Wikipedia went black this morning over it, and I just felt that everyone here should know about what's going on. Again, I'm not condoning piracy, infringement, etc. - that's not the point. The point is the language in the proposal unfortunately is too broad and isn't specific enough in achieving the desired results.

You can read more about it here:

Stop Online Piracy Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
It's neither speculation nor fear mongering. It's exactly what the bill, as written, explicitly allows for.

...The one thing that it won't do, ironically, is stop online, or even significantly hinder, piracy.

This is correct. Pirates do not need domain names to access illegal content. This bill will do nothing to stop it.
 
Great discussion. Reminds me of a couple things.

Back in the mid/late-1990s, I worked in the IT department of a large corporate retailer that sold numerous copyrighted entertainment products, including music CDs. This was, of course, during the early days of illegal file-sharing sites and the very early days of online retailing. At a large conference/"Expo" for retailers and vendors, I happened to sit in on an informal meeting that included reps from a couple major music vendors and execs and buyers from our company. One of those buyers (who had, informally, become my mentor in my early days with the company) was extremely technologically astute, as well as being one of the most powerful buyers in the industry. When the subject of the file-sharing sites came up, she made the point that they merely represented the tip of the technology iceberg, that there were even more "exotic" and efficient distribution technologies already in the pipeline and that it would be smart and profitable for these vendors to start working on adapting their business model to take advantage of them. The vendor reaction was derisive laughter followed by a pledge to "sue all these sites and the people who use them into oblivion." Apparently, the seeds of the DMCA had already been sown. Also sown, at that moment, were the seeds of my own understanding that major corporate industries want markets free from "government regulation" so that they can use their financial heft to regulate markets themselves, instead - including USING government to thwart technlogies that might enable new businesses who could threaten their staus quo.

Later in the discussion, I heard our own company's CEO claim, in all seriousness, "The Internet is just a fad, like CB radio. It will fade away on its own soon enough." This was the guy who not only refused to invest anything in an online presence for our company (until it was way too late) and also, fairly soon after this, was instrumental in getting the company board to turn down an offer to buy a 50% stake in a parallel (to our business) online startup for a relative pittance, less than a third of the annual budget for building out more brick-and-mortar locations. That same startup, within about three years, became the dominant player in our industry.

Similar to SOPA/PIPA, part of the problem with the original DMCA was technologically ignorant language. With the DMCA, it was vague language intended to make it illegal for anyone to "hide" their computer's actual IP address or to use/sell/develop/distribute technologies to enable this "hiding". As worded, it would have made, for instance, all in-home routers illegal. The wording also, apparently, would have made development of privacy technologies such as personal encryption illegal. IIRC, most such provisions were discarded from the final version that passed at the federal level (after a very vigorous campaign waged by tech folks to demonstrate the abject folly of the concept). However, the MPAA and RIAA later went on a state-to-state roadshow, lobbying individual state legislatures to pass "mini-DMCAs" that retained such provisions. Part of their sales pitch was the claim that such provisions could prevent child pornographers from being able to fly under the radar ("The more things change.....").

And, of course, many states passed such bills. IMHO, such travesties are possible because most elected officials are good at primarily ONE thing - getting elected. Expecting the majority of them to ALSO have a decent working knowledge of the things we're ostensibly hiring them to manage, such as technology issues, appears to be completely unrealistic. Anyway, among the states that passed such "mini-DMCAs" was the state where I had spent most of my adult life. An acquaintance back there, who was involved with and later married a long time close friend of mine, was/is an internationally well-known researcher in legitimate computer security and encryption technologies, working in affiliation with a major state university. When that state's bill passed, all his work effectively became felonious. To protect himself from prosecution, he was forced to immediately move all his work to offshore servers, end his affiliation with the university and move out of the U.S. for awhile (he eventually came back to resume his career in another state that hadn't passed such legislation).

Yep. Good times, all the way around. Not particularly thrilled to see that they're back.

WashingtonWatch.com - H.R. 1981, The Protecting Children From Internet Pornographers Act of 2011

This is one of the most sickening legislative tactics I've ever seen. Apparently, when you can't get your bill passed legitimately, the next step is to label it as being "against child porn", simply so that anyone who opposes the censorship that's being rammed down our throats as "pro-child porn!!"

Might as well make all recording devices illegal while we're at it, since without them there's no way to make child porn in the first place.
 
This is correct. Pirates do not need domain names to access illegal content. This bill will do nothing to stop it.

Exactly: there are already browser extensions in development that, when installed, will basically add another layer, client-side, on top of DNS servers. If you type, for example, the Pirate Bay's URL (not going to link to it here on PatsFans, of course), then it would refer to this extension's list of IPs, and, if an entry is found, it will simply direct the user to that IP address without ever producing a DNS query. This process circumvents DNS filtering entirely, and is incredibly easy to accomplish.

Most sites will still have IP addresses that you can navigate to directly, and that will remain a viable means for circumventing all of this stuff. Incidentally, that's how I kept up to date with Wikileaks after it was "taken down". Example:

If anyone wants to know the IP address of a website, they can do the following:

1) Access the command terminal (on Windows Vista and 7, you click start, type
"cmd" without the quotes into the search bar, and then press enter)

2) type "ping www.patsfans.com" (again without the quotes). From the reply information, you will see that the patsfans IP address is 208.116.51.99.

3) Navigate to 208.116.51.99 instead of patsfans.com in your web browser. If Patsfans were ever to get blacklisted through SOPA, you'd still be able to get here through that IP address.

Of course, Ian would suddenly find himself unable to make any advertising revenue without switching to offshore networks, though, and we probably wouldn't get any new users since nobody would be able to find us on Google. So Ian would be pretty much screwed, but for a site that planned on being blacklisted and had already moved its advertising outside of US jurisdiction? They'd be fine.

When a pirate site gets blacklisted, most/all of its users will already have the IP address written down, so they'll still be able to get there. The aforementioned browser extensions will make it even easier, and they'll be using offshore payment processors and ad networks, so they will still be able to monetize their traffic. SOPA will seriously be that easy to circumvent. I just showed you all how to do it- it's just a couple of extremely simple steps.

In short, this bill will barely be a speedbump for foreign sites that deliberately host copyrighted content. Their entire ecosystem of users will be prepared for this, and they'll have their own payment processors and ad networks located far outside of the US gov't's reach. The only sites that will get really screwed are places like Patsfans, where all it will take is one Jets troll posting a link to a site that has copyrighted content and then reporting it to get the entire site blacklisted.
 
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If anyone wants to know the IP address of a website, they can do the following:

Basically, it works like this:

Every site has an IP address. The IP address is how information is routed on the internet. Many sites have an 'alias', or domain name. Examples are google.com, patsfans.com, etc. DNS is a translator of sorts. You give DNS an alias, and it gives your computer the IP address. That translation is what happens in your browser. You type in a domain name, and your browser contacts DNS to get the IP address. If an IP address exists for that domain name, it connects to that IP address. If not, other things happen (dependent on your internet provider).

In mu opinion, two things could happen if DNS blocking were legislated:
1) People would point their web browsers to DNS outside of the US, and outside of the jurisdiction of US courts. The US would have to start blocking internet traffic on a national level to mitigate this.

2) People would start using a distributed DNS. That is, there would be a big file sent around of all the top IP address/domain name translations. It would either be a manual or automated process, but the effect would be the same. Again, the US would have to block internet traffic on a national level to mitigate this.
 
Let me first complement MaineMan*, BradyFTW (great, correct, easy to understand treatise on DNS and IP addresses) and others here for their fascinating contributions.

Good news. One of our Senators from NH today announced that she no longer supports PIPA. She was getting killed on FaceBook. Shame on her for sponsoring the travesty in the first place.




* I've watched CEOs totally miss technologies and drive the companies into the ground a couple times
 
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Just to emphasize the point some of us have been making, the Supreme Court is now showing the same type of stupidity that the other branches have been showing on the issue of copyright for decades:

Congress may take books, musical compositions and other works out of the public domain, where they can be freely used and adapted, and grant them copyright status again, the Supreme Court ruled Wednesday.

Supreme Court Says Congress May Re-Copyright Public Domain Works | Threat Level | Wired.com

Now even public domain is not going to be a safe harbor.
 
Just to emphasize the point some of us have been making, the Supreme Court is now showing the same type of stupidity that the other branches have been showing on the issue of copyright for decades:



Supreme Court Says Congress May Re-Copyright Public Domain Works | Threat Level | Wired.com

Now even public domain is not going to be a safe harbor.

Sounds to me more like the Supreme Court is ruling that it's Constitutional for Congress to be stupid.

The entire Constitutional authority for patent and copyright law is:

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
 
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This particular supreme court ruling actually makes sense.

We signed an international agreement to respect the copyright rights of people in other countries.

What does not make sense is that US law that allows copyrights to extend well beyond international law of life of author plus 50 years.
 
If at this point, any of you still don't understand it, Hitler returns as he has done so many times, to clarify the situation:

Hitler rants about SOPA and PIPA - YouTube!

I don't like.

They could have done a much better job, if they made Hitler a supporter of SOPA and PIPA complaining about how Wiki is interfering with his plans for world domination by controlling the internet and silencing all dissent.

Me and Hitler are rarely on the same side of any issue.
 
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Let me first complement MaineMan*, BradyFTW (great, correct, easy to understand treatise on DNS and IP addresses) and others here for their fascinating contributions.

Good news. One of our Senators from NH today announced that she no longer supports PIPA. She was getting killed on FaceBook. Shame on her for sponsoring the travesty in the first place.




* I've watched CEOs totally miss technologies and drive the companies into the ground a couple times

Let me second that. BradyFTW and MaineMan were instrumental (along with Ian) in changing my mind on this bill.

I was flat-out wrong. No excuses.

I am never wrong about football though.
 
Further strengthening my belief that this particular supreme court is probably the worst of the past century.

I'm trying to avoid most of the politics here, but it's not even close to the worst. C'mon, man, you've got the post-"switch in time" comedy troupe, along with the "penumbras" crew. Nothing comes close to the horror shows that were those two courts.

Those two combined to essentially turn the Constitution into toilet paper.
 
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As an Internet retailer, I am happy that these bills both appear to be DOA. Right now many of my manufacturers are getting pressure from big box retailers to make it as hard as possible for me and other Internet retailers to sell their products. Right now these manufacturers are basically resorting to price fixing to achieve that. They do everything from not allowing me to show my price lower to a certain price until they add it to the cart or even imply we do to setting a minimum price I can sell their products to charging me more than other retailers. To enforce these rules, they threaten to go after any Internet retailer for copyright infractions if they do not comply.

Obviously, these new bills would make their job easier. They could shut me down totally if they decided which I am sure the Big Boxes would pressure them to do.
 
I don't like.

They could have done a much better job, if they made Hitler a supporter of SOPA and PIPA complaining about how Wiki is interfering with his plans for world domination by controlling the internet and silencing all dissent.

I was just thinking that. You're right in that it would have been far more effective if Hitler was ranting against SOPA/PIPA being derailed.
 
I work for one of the main sponsors of this bill so I am obviously biased.

This bill is aimed squarely at foreign sites selling counterfeit goods and intellectual property. It is not to be used against sites operating inside of the United States. Period. At least that's what the language says (not being reported for political/financial reasons).

Google and other tech companies who's business models subsist on making money off of our content (mainly through ads on torrent sites , etc) have a financial stake in this matter and are using scare tactics. Your internet will not change one iota.

People need to understand how tech companies like AOL, Google, Facebook are not interested in protecting intellectual property because it limits their users access to content.

As I sit here and write this from my ivory skyscraper, I can look around the halls and count the number of empty desks that used to be occupied by hard working creative people who's only crime was that the content that they helped make was coveted by pirates and Google execs. That's not hyperbole either.

We have had 40% layoffs for the last 4 years. It tends to make you quite angry and embittered...

If Google and the rest were sincerely interested in fighting piracy then they would offer meaningful solutions and take steps to address it. They have not done anything because that would affect their bottom lines.

They say quaint things like "we're obviously against piracy" but they do nothing to help the video game makers, the movie studios and music industry people who invest huge amounts of time and money making this content.

This is not about censorship. It's about taking on pirates and the huge tech companies that profit from this traffic.

If your servers are in the US, you are not culpable. That's how it was written. I have not read it in the last six months so if that's changed I am obviously wrong and disregard.

All you and anyone else on this site needs to know about "copyright infringement" can be found with regards to the sad, sad sage of Righthaven and the Las Vegas Sun.

Welcome to Righthaven Lawsuits
FAIL: RIAA Plans to Join Righthaven Copyright Trolls | TorrentFreak
Righthaven - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And the list goes on and on.

While it's true the courts eventually bopped this legal shakedown operation on the head, in the interim a sizeable number of small Web sites shut down due to the efforts of this give-no-warning-and-seize boondogle, fully sanctioned by the courts and the law at the time.

Those that were large enough and survived the efforts, aided by the EFF and DU (of all places) managed to put the kibosh on these bottom-feeders.

You want Big Brother bearing down on you like this, where you really have no option but to comply, you go right ahead and support this monstronsity.

Leviathan's propensity is to expand, ever and always, unless it is opposed by a larger, more powerful counter-force. That would be us, the little people, in large, large numbers.

Because of the lawyer-inspired vagueness of these proposed legislative pieces, any and every crack that exists in these bills, and they are definitely in here, will, at some point in time, be exploited by the government.

Why? Because it can!

Oppose censorship in all it's myraid forms, and do it now, or else someday in the not-too-distant future they could come and shut you up, no questions asked.
 
All you and anyone else on this site needs to know about "copyright infringement" can be found with regards to the sad, sad sage of Righthaven and the Las Vegas Sun.

Welcome to Righthaven Lawsuits
FAIL: RIAA Plans to Join Righthaven Copyright Trolls | TorrentFreak
Righthaven - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And the list goes on and on.

While it's true the courts eventually bopped this legal shakedown operation on the head, in the interim a sizeable number of small Web sites shut down due to the efforts of this give-no-warning-and-seize boondogle, fully sanctioned by the courts and the law at the time.

Those that were large enough and survived the efforts, aided by the EFF and DU (of all places) managed to put the kibosh on these bottom-feeders.

You want Big Brother bearing down on you like this, where you really have no option but to comply, you go right ahead and support this monstronsity.

Leviathan's propensity is to expand, ever and always, unless it is opposed by a larger, more powerful counter-force. That would be us, the little people, in large, large numbers.

Because of the lawyer-inspired vagueness of these proposed legislative pieces, any and every crack that exists in these bills, and they are definitely in here, will, at some point in time, be exploited by the government.

Why? Because it can!

Oppose censorship in all it's myraid forms, and do it now, or else someday in the not-too-distant future they could come and shut you up, no questions asked.

Righthaven has a very happy ending (well, 'ending' to date).

Righthaven says it might have to file for bankruptcy - VEGAS INC
 
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