Mayo's contract details

[hodgey]

I dont think you understand the difference in philosopies to make such assertions.

As a quick break down

1 gap is a penetrating type D predicating on crashing the line of scrimage and trying to disrupt the flow of the play before it can develope. This generally leads to more negative plays but also generally leads to a better success rate of plays called relying on the negative plays to kill the drives.

2 gap is a read and react type of D predicating on lane discipline and creating a wall just behind the line of scrimmage. This generally doesnt create us much negative plays but also creates less of success rate.

IMO its not so much about preventing big plays as it is minimizing the success of each play. Both styles will get beat their share of times. but in theory the team playing 1 gap will likely give up more yards per play not accounting for the negative plays with the negative plays creating a decent average where as the 2 gap may not have as many negative plays but will give up less on a play by play basis.

of course all this predicates on all being equal and that will never happen. I think I a 2 gap can get away with slightly less talent but needs to be smarter.

No disrespect but I really dont need you to tell me what I understand about our scheme versus a scheme like Baltimores or Houstons. My point is either one or two or both of the following statements are true.
1.) The scheme SUCKS and does not fit the players we have
2.) The talent level STINKS and cannot support the scheme.

This does not require rocket science or Bill's approval for posting the obvious.

Supposedly I keep reading here that both Mayo and Wilfork are Elite talents at there positions yet we have a pathetic front 7? We've had a boat load of draft picks, and an owner who obviously will spend the $$$.

Thank god we have the best offense in the league!!!!

 

[mgcolby]

Fair point - there's no arguing Lewis is surrounded by a boatload of talent. And not just the linemen - Suggs is one of the best defensive players in the league this year.

Spikes should be back soon - and Mayo should be 100% healthy at this point. Hopefully we see that kind of consistency we're hoping for from Mayo soon, between those two factors.

Suggs and Ngata are beasts. They have a ton of talent on that D. I think Lewis is in the discussion for the GOAT, but he is aging, albeit slowly.

:eat3:

 

[mgcolby]

No disrespect but I really dont need you to tell me what I understand about our scheme versus a scheme like Baltimores or Houstons. My point is either one or two or both of the following statements are true.
1.) The scheme SUCKS and does not fit the players we have
2.) The talent level STINKS and cannot support the scheme.

This does not require rocket science or Bill's approval for posting the obvious.

Supposedly I keep reading here that both Mayo and Wilfork are Elite talents at there positions yet we have a pathetic front 7? We've had a boat load of draft picks, and an owner who obviously will spend the $$$.

Thank god we have the best offense in the league!!!!

It doesn't have to be either or both. Although I think we are lacking in overall talent. But it isn't always about talent either, GB has some big time talent on their D, Woodson, Raji, Mathews etc...yet they play a one gap 3-4 and have identical numbers to ours. An attacking scheme with talent, yet they are not shutting down opponents? So which is it the talent or the scheme?

To me, its a little bit of everything, but most importantly complimentary football. Both offenses put a ton of pressure on the opposing offense forcing them to go for the big play more often, throwing more often etc...and it shows up in the both the take away category and the total yards category. One negative and one positive.

With that said the bend, but don't break philosophy is not always pleasant and calming to watch, however it is effective. We are 32nd in total yards, yet 14th in points allowed and only 28 points or 2 PPG seperates us from the 5th place Dolphins in points allowed. The defense is not as bad as it looks. They are not great, but they are not terrible either. They are average in the one stat that matters most. And as long as the offense plays the way they should in the playoffs they can win with an average defense.

 

[strngplyr]

C'mon man can we keep it real? It's a scheme that allows 400+ yards per game and 218 yards in a quarter to a crappy denver offense, along with 236 on the ground FCS and thats with us scoring 41. Without turnovers they might have rushed for 400 yards. We fans cant have it both ways. Either the system sucks or we have average to below average defensive players.

What exactly did Denver do after the D adjusted 12 minutes into the game?

10 points and barely matching their 1st quarter yardage over the final 3+?

 

[BradyFTW!]

I'm fine with this contract. We still have Mayo on his current deal until the end of it, and then by the time he's raking in the big money, the cap will be set to explode anyways. I doubt that $9.7M per year will seem like as much money as it does now in 2015.

 

[ausbacker]

Apparently probowl linebackers grow on trees and you can remunerate them with bargain prices.

Mayo is a stud and is being paid accordingly.

 

[signbabybrady]

No disrespect but I really dont need you to tell me what I understand about our scheme versus a scheme like Baltimores or Houstons. My point is either one or two or both of the following statements are true.
1.) The scheme SUCKS and does not fit the players we have
2.) The talent level STINKS and cannot support the scheme.

This does not require rocket science or Bill's approval for posting the obvious.

Supposedly I keep reading here that both Mayo and Wilfork are Elite talents at there positions yet we have a pathetic front 7? We've had a boat load of draft picks, and an owner who obviously will spend the $$$.

Thank god we have the best offense in the league!!!!

Well thats slightly different from what you originally said. (I still dont agree)

But here is what you originally said

Its either a crappy scheme or just a solid, but not premier Mayo. Take your pick

Mayo could be the best LB ever to play if all 10 other guys, not saying its the case, but if all 10 other guys were talentless Mayo alone could not make the scheme work.

I think a short response to both of your statements is that you are being way to absolute and you need to find the grey area where the truth lies.

IMO the truth is we have decent talent in a proven great scheme that has a ton of pressure put on it by the offense which creates bad stats and average play juxtapose that with early 2000s where we had an offense trying to take pressure off the D, a much more talented D, and similar schemes which created good stats and great play.

 

[hodgey]

Apparently probowl linebackers grow on trees and you can remunerate them with bargain prices.

Mayo is a stud and is being paid accordingly.

Well last I recall we have no problem cutting a pro-bowl safety! I guess any special team/backup receiver type player will due.

 

[hodgey]

Well thats slightly different from what you originally said. (I still dont agree)

But here is what you originally said



Mayo could be the best LB ever to play if all 10 other guys, not saying its the case, but if all 10 other guys were talentless Mayo alone could not make the scheme work.

I think a short response to both of your statements is that you are being way to absolute and you need to find the grey area where the truth lies.

IMO the truth is we have decent talent in a proven great scheme that has a ton of pressure put on it by the offense which creates bad stats and average play juxtapose that with early 2000s where we had an offense trying to take pressure off the D, a much more talented D, and similar schemes which created good stats and great play.

I'm not personally a fan of Ray Lewis ( just to name 1 guy) as I hate the Ravens, but you could stick him now on the worst defensive team in the league and he would still make bone jarring hits and impact plays. Oh sh#t I forgot we are the worst D in the league.

 

[signbabybrady]

I'm not personally a fan of Ray Lewis ( just to name 1 guy) as I hate the Ravens, but you could stick him now on the worst defensive team in the league and he would still make bone jarring hits and impact plays. Oh sh#t I forgot we are the worst D in the league.

But how much better would the D be?


Ok so Mayo doesnt hit as hard as Ray Lewis, if not the best, one of the top 2 or 3 LBs of all time, doesnt mean he is useless and not worth 9 mil.

If Ray was the same age as Mayo he would significantly more than 9 mil a year.

 

[mgcolby]

I'm not personally a fan of Ray Lewis ( just to name 1 guy) as I hate the Ravens, but you could stick him now on the worst defensive team in the league and he would still make bone jarring hits and impact plays. Oh sh#t I forgot we are the worst D in the league.

Well its not meant to be, instead he is on that great Baltimore defense that is 3rd in the league in total defense and averages a whopping 4.3 PPG less than that sh!tbag defense we throw out there every weak.

 

[hodgey]

But how much better would the D be?


Ok so Mayo doesnt hit as hard as Ray Lewis, if not the best, one of the top 2 or 3 LBs of all time, doesnt mean he is useless and not worth 9 mil.

If Ray was the same age as Mayo he would significantly more than 9 mil a year.

In my original post I noted that I like Mayo as a solid player. My only concern is he worth 7.5-8% of our cap. Now we have previous posters who intelligently point out that his extension does not kick in till I think was said 2013 so maybe the cap will have inflated enough to make this thread moot.
That being said for me imho any ILB better be able to get to the QB on occasion, cause fumbles via explosive tackling, and defend the pass if they are worthy of 7.5+ % of the cap. Does anybody know what Tedy was making as a percentage of the salary cap in the superbowl years?

 

[mgcolby]

In my original post I noted that I like Mayo as a solid player. My only concern is he worth 7.5-8% of our cap. Now we have previous posters who intelligently point out that his extension does not kick in till I think was said 2013 so maybe the cap will have inflated enough to make this thread moot.
That being said for me imho any ILB better be able to get to the QB on occasion, cause fumbles via explosive tackling, and defend the pass if they are worthy of 7.5+ % of the cap. Does anybody know what Tedy was making as a percentage of the salary cap in the superbowl years?

You do realize that Lewis has never had more than two forced fumbles in any season right? I think if you looked at Lewis stats and compared them to Mayo's you might be a little surprised.

Mayo has shown up a lot more in the passing game the past few weeks, hopefully that continues.

For what he does on the field and what he brings to this team in terms of leadership and knowledge of the defense makes him worth every penny.

 

[mgteich]

I'm fine with securing Mayo through 2017. I agree with those who say that a contract that average $10M a year won't seem high when we are in the middle of that contract in 2015.

THIS IS NOT BACKLOADED

PART ONE 2011-2012
Mayo is being given $6M for over-performing on his old contract and for signing the extension.

PART TWO 2013-2014
I would simply cut the option bonus in half. Mayo will get about $9.5M a year for the two years. He will be given elite money for 2013 and 2014. However, I think that we should be careful about comparing it to present contracts unless we are talking about contracts for 2013 and 2014. Salaries will go up.

PART THREE 2015-2017
Perhaps Mayo won't be a critical to us by then. But his compensation will be fine at $7.5M, $8.5M and $10M.

 

[DaBruinz]

No disrespect but I really dont need you to tell me what I understand about our scheme versus a scheme like Baltimores or Houstons. My point is either one or two or both of the following statements are true.
1.) The scheme SUCKS and does not fit the players we have
2.) The talent level STINKS and cannot support the scheme.

This does not require rocket science or Bill's approval for posting the obvious.

Supposedly I keep reading here that both Mayo and Wilfork are Elite talents at there positions yet we have a pathetic front 7? We've had a boat load of draft picks, and an owner who obviously will spend the $$$.

Thank god we have the best offense in the league!!!!

1) You are clueless about the scheme the Pats run
2) You do not understand that the Pats players actually do fit the scheme except for the ROLB position.
3) The talent level is actually very good, your evaluation skills are what Stink.

 

[DaBruinz]

A few things. Rappaport is WRONG.

Mayo received the signing bonus this year.
Rappaport doesn't mention when the "Option" bonus get's paid out, but my guess is it will hit the 2012 season and be spread over 6 years.

Mayo's Salary will Total 27.5 Million over 6 years, not 5 the way Rappaport says.
He'll make an addition $3million in roster/workout bonuses.

That's a total of 42.5 million over 6 years. If you add the 6 million signing bonus, that is 48.5 over 7 years. NOT 5 years.

The "AVERAGE" is 6.93M over 7 years or 7.08M over 6 years. It is NOT 9.7 million over 5 years.

 

[mgteich]

Why do believe that the option bonus and contract should be spread over 6 years instead of 5?

My guess is that the $6M is paid out now and the $12M option bonus at the start of the new contract, in 2013.

A few things. Rappaport is WRONG.

Mayo received the signing bonus this year.
Rappaport doesn't mention when the "Option" bonus get's paid out, but my guess is it will hit the 2012 season and be spread over 6 years.

Mayo's Salary will Total 27.5 Million over 6 years, not 5 the way Rappaport says.
He'll make an addition $3million in roster/workout bonuses.

That's a total of 42.5 million over 6 years. If you add the 6 million signing bonus, that is 48.5 over 7 years. NOT 5 years.

The "AVERAGE" is 6.93M over 7 years or 7.08M over 6 years. It is NOT 9.7 million over 5 years.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Why do believe that the option bonus and contract should be spread over 6 years instead of 5?

My guess is that the $6M is paid out now and the $12M option bonus at the start of the new contract, in 2013.

The max you can amortize under the new CBA is 5 years. The option bonus is likely due in 2012 and then it can be spread over 5 years unless it is guaranteed with forfeiture language that ups his salaries if it isn't picked up - in which case they are already spreading it over 5 years including this year although they haven't actually had to shell it out yet. The Patriots often use option language to spread out the cash hit.

The deal is for all intents and purposes a deeply discounted deal based on the last two years of the rookie deal remaining in tact making it essentially a 7 year $50M+ deal... It sucks that mediots in this town fail miserably to learn from their mistakes in reporting these deals in their zeal to report the details first...without firmly grasping what those details actually mean. 3+ years into this 7 year arrangement the cap will begin to again implode as the revenue from the new TV deal extensions kicks in. By the time Mayo has a $10M cap hit in 2017 the cap will be (perhaps well) in excess of $160M. And sadly by then we likely will be done paying our QB $18M.

 

[signbabybrady]

You do realize that Lewis has never had more than two forced fumbles in any season right? I think if you looked at Lewis stats and compared them to Mayo's you might be a little surprised.

Mayo has shown up a lot more in the passing game the past few weeks, hopefully that continues.

For what he does on the field and what he brings to this team in terms of leadership and knowledge of the defense makes him worth every penny.

Whoa slow down. Mayo is worth the investment but lets not start trying to compare him to Ray Lewis. and if you look up Rays stats you wont be suprised that he is far better than Mayo. Rough calculation Mayo is on pace for like a 1/3 the number of career pics and sacks and about the same on forced fumbles.


Ray is one of two players to ever have 30+sacks 30+ INts, Rodney is the others and Barber has a shot at it, though 3 sacks for a DB can be tough.

 

[mgteich]

I think it more likely that the option bonus is due in March 2013 and spread over the 5 years of the new contract.

The max you can amortize under the new CBA is 5 years. The option bonus is likely due in 2012 and then it can be spread over 5 years unless it is guaranteed with forfeiture language that ups his salaries if it isn't picked up - in which case they are already spreading it over 5 years including this year although they haven't actually had to shell it out yet. The Patriots often use option language to spread out the cash hit.

The deal is for all intents and purposes a deeply discounted deal based on the last two years of the rookie deal remaining in tact making it essentially a 7 year $50M+ deal... It sucks that mediots in this town fail miserably to learn from their mistakes in reporting these deals in their zeal to report the details first...without firmly grasping what those details actually mean. 3+ years into this 7 year arrangement the cap will begin to again implode as the revenue from the new TV deal extensions kicks in. By the time Mayo has a $10M cap hit in 2017 the cap will be (perhaps well) in excess of $160M. And sadly by then we likely will be done paying our QB $18M.