BB indicates that Patricia is calling defensive plays

[DropKickFlutie]

Ok. This year, our D line has played decent to good, while our secondary has been sub par. One unit is coached by Pepper while the other is coached by Matt P.
So my question is, why is Matt P calling plays instead of Pepper?

Pepper Johnson has two Superbowl rings as a player and 3 Superbowl rings as a defensive coach. He's been coaching for 11 years now. His specific units that he coached have always been good. It boggles the mind why his opportunities have been so slow while other guys who did nothing prior have gotten more chances than him (Dean Pees, Patricia).

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Pepper Johnson has two Superbowl rings as a player and 3 Superbowl rings as a defensive coach. He's been coaching for 11 years now. His specific units that he coached have always been good. It boggles the mind why his opportunities have been so slow while other guys who did nothing prior have gotten more chances than him (Dean Pees, Patricia).

Yeah. I think Pepper got an interview 1-2 years w. the Giants for their D coord job.

 

[jbb9s]

Back when Digital Equipment Corporation was a growing successful high tech firm they had a policy of giving a person the management responsibility for a year or so before granting the title and the money.

And lets just say for example, DEC was rated 32 out of 32 with all comparable tech firms by analysts on Wall Street. Do you think that person auditioning for the management position would be granted the title? Or would others blame it on the CEO and just give the guy a raise after the one year period?

 

[jbb9s]

Pepper Johnson has two Superbowl rings as a player and 3 Superbowl rings as a defensive coach. He's been coaching for 11 years now. His specific units that he coached have always been good. It boggles the mind why his opportunities have been so slow while other guys who did nothing prior have gotten more chances than him (Dean Pees, Patricia).

there is a big difference between coaching a position and being in charge of the whole enchilada. Its really a reflection of management style, drive, leadership ability, operating under stress and passion for being in the spotlight.


Other than coaching up his unit, we're really not sure what his role is behind closed doors. I would imagine if he was talented and wanted to take the next step, someone like Mangini, Weis, McDaniels, Pioli, Crennel, or Capers would have taken Peppers with them to NYJ, KC, DEN, KC, CLE or GB with a fat raise and a new title. But they didn't.


Its the same reason why there are 20 yr vet programmers in the back of house cube farms of Google scripting brilliant code for the next big thing while kids 4 or 5 yrs out of school are pushing for strategic management positions and more company equity.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Its the same reason why there are 20 yr vet programmers in the back of house cube farms of Google scripting brilliant code for the next big thing while kids 4 or 5 yrs out of school are pushing for strategic management positions and more company equity.

When it comes to defense, Mangini / Pees / Patricia were underwhelming in their ability to field a championship-caliber defense.

If you're going to pull analogies, ENRON used to promote a bunch of hot shot inexperienced people over those who actually knew what they were doing. In the NFL past success has to count for something and aside from Scar and Belichick, Pepper has the track record and the credentials.

 

[jmt57]

I've been under the impression that Patricia has been calling defensive plays for over a year, similar to Bill O'Brien calling offensive plays for a couple years before being named OC.

Is this really news, except to those that have been using the lack of a title to bash Belichick and/or the Pats?

 

[Betterthanmost]

OT: What does anybody think of trying to bring Tedy Bruschi to be part linebackers coach? Or the ESPN money can't be matched?

 

[Joker]

and bash they cannot wait to do...it was hysteria two weeks ago.....as idiotic and blind lemming over the cliff as I've ever seen a message board in ANY sport...

the game has passed BB by!!!!(says the moronic cubicle dweeb with a Napoleanic complex)
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BB was never that good to start with!!!Remember Cleveland???THAT is who he really is!!! I'm telling all of you because I'm a KNOWER OF THINGS!!!(this particular nutbag type couldn't coach a tiny squirt out of his tight anal cavity if he ate five boxes of Ex-lax and washed it down with a gallon of Metamucil)

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Hi!!I'm Charlie Cherrypicker and I have these stats, (and don't ever argue with me because I AM A STATS GUY!!!!!) and they conclusively show whatever I want them to show, as long as they show BB is BAD at whatever I hate about him this week and I , STATS GUY, am in first place in my "who cares????" fantasy league and I KNOW I am a better coach than Bill Belichick!!!(if only some braindead, comatose NFL franchise would hire your stupid pinhead to front their organization)

Sick of the same lamea$$ critiques that vomit forth after a loss and yet seem so strangely absent when the Pats win.

 

[jbb9s]

OT: What does anybody think of trying to bring Tedy Bruschi to be part linebackers coach? Or the ESPN money can't be matched?

its actually that the ESPN hours can't be matched. BB works his assistants as hard as anyone league wide.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

I would honestly rather have Pepper than Patricia calling the plays.

yeah, because the defense sucked last week.............:bricks:
seriously? why would you want Pepper right now?

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Pepper Johnson has two Superbowl rings as a player and 3 Superbowl rings as a defensive coach. He's been coaching for 11 years now. His specific units that he coached have always been good. It boggles the mind why his opportunities have been so slow while other guys who did nothing prior have gotten more chances than him (Dean Pees, Patricia).

Maybe, just maybe, he hasnt been given the job because BB thinks someone else gives us the best chance to win. I think its safe to say Bill knows better than us. Just sayin.......

 

[DarrylS]

Aside from personnel guys like Pioli or Dimitroff, none of Belichick's recent disciples have gone on to be good coaches. Belichick's philosophies may be transferring to team building/GM skills, but it's clear that those coaches only had success while under the tutelage of Belichick who really coached them up and made them look better than they were.

Never attested to whether they were good or not, simply implied that they worked their way up the Patriot ladder..

 

[patsfan-1982]

you could see Patricia calling the plays on the side line all year he is the DC

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Peppers has more experience especially in BB's system. Peppers played for BB and knows what BB wants to be done. If you had a choice to either keep Pepper or Patricia, who would you pick?

I'd keep whichever one Bill thinks is smarter or better suited to the job...

I remember back in the good old days when Charlie was here and Bill made him adjust a play they had worked on all week on the fly in a game situation because it had just failed based on the coverage he was observing and it resulted in the only TD Brady threw in his first Superbowl...

I also believe that while most of you are devoted fans of this franchise winning some of you also seemingly fell in here off the proverbial turnip truck...

And the other guys name is Pepper, not Peppers...that's the DE you all wanted in FA that Bill passed on paying a gazillion for.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Yeah. I think Pepper got an interview 1-2 years w. the Giants for their D coord job.

No, that was purely media speculation of mutual interest based on Pepper stating he was interested in becoming a DC... RAC followed Tuna from college through the pros and in all the years they were together RAC never got a shot at coordinating. Including when Belichick left for Cleveland (and tapped Nick Saban as his DC). That's why he left for Cleveland himself after the 1999 JETS season. Bill actually served as the defacto DC here in 2000 and when RAC got canned in Cleveland after one season he finally hired him for the job here...

A lot more goes into being a coordinator that calling plays or coaching up position players and motivating players. Just like a good coordinator doesn't necessarily make a good HC, same deal with position coaches not necessarily morphing into good coordinators. When Bill was looking for ideas on how to get over on the greatest show on turf he brainstormed with Saban, not RAC. RAC stayed behind to install the game plan once Bill formulated it... I think Bill is looking for young guys with ideas and insights and preferably a little less ego than Saban and Mangini had that can be groomed to be his coordinators within this system. Pees got his shot based on being Saban's DC in college...twice.

 

[ctpatsfan1]

No, that was purely media speculation of mutual interest based on Pepper stating he was interested in becoming a DC... RAC followed Tuna from college through the pros and in all the years they were together RAC never got a shot at coordinating. Including when Belichick left for Cleveland (and tapped Nick Saban as his DC). That's why he left for Cleveland himself after the 1999 JETS season. Bill actually served as the defacto DC here in 2000 and when RAC got canned in Cleveland after one season he finally hired him for the job here...

A lot more goes into being a coordinator that calling plays or coaching up position players and motivating players. Just like a good coordinator doesn't necessarily make a good HC, same deal with position coaches not necessarily morphing into good coordinators. When Bill was looking for ideas on how to get over on the greatest show on turf he brainstormed with Saban, not RAC. RAC stayed behind to install the game plan once Bill formulated it... I think Bill is looking for young guys with ideas and insights and preferably a little less ego than Saban and Mangini had that can be groomed to be his coordinators within this system. Pees got his shot based on being Saban's DC in college...twice.

I think that is a big part of it. Getting younger coaches with new ideas and a better connection to the player of today. Today's players are not yesterday's players and need to be communicated to differently. sure you will have some throw back types but for the most part it is a different game and you need to have coaches that can communicate to the players.

As for the PJ vs MP debate. I have never been overly impressed with MP, I think he is too passive, perhaps at BB's behest, but I don't think he takes enough chances with blitzes and in designing new ways to attack the O, just my two cents as a fan. I do believe he is better than Dean Pees who IMHO was horrible. As for PJ getting the nod I wouldn't mind seeing what he could do calling the plays.

Note MP has been the defacto DC ever since he started wearing the red top (jacket, sweatshirt, etc) which goes back to the Romeo days where the DC wears the red top so the defenders can see him calling in the plays with hand signals. Even though they don't use hand signals now with the helmet speakers, it is BB having a fall back in case the technology fails. Notice no one else on the Patriots sideline coaching staff wears red.

 

[condon84]

Pepper Johnson has two Superbowl rings as a player and 3 Superbowl rings as a defensive coach. He's been coaching for 11 years now. His specific units that he coached have always been good. It boggles the mind why his opportunities have been so slow while other guys who did nothing prior have gotten more chances than him (Dean Pees, Patricia).

I'm sure if BB felt that if Peppers was right for the job, he'd have promoted him by now. Maybe he feels that he's not ready for it. Or maybe he feels that Peppers isn't fit to be a DC. Does he have the acumen to design gameplans and schemes? Is he able to decipher what offenses are trying to do to defenses? Obviously BB feels that something is missing.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I don't think any of us fans or the media know enough about the inner workings of the organization to make a valid assessment of Pepper vs. Patricia. Matt is working with a defense that is largely under talented and inexperienced in comparison to say what RAC or even Pees had to work with. I think Pees ultimately left because he was butting heads with Bill over how you manage that situation. Perhaps because he was too old a dog to learn new tricks. Patricia is managing it incrementally, which is frustrating for some players and most fans, but necessary given the circumstances. Relying more on coaching basics and scheme and discipline to carry the day until enough talent or experience or emerging intuition begins to reveal itself with some level of consistency they can count on.

Bill would rather work with less when he knows what he can count on than work with more but never know what to expect from it. That is why Merriweather isn't here anymore. Ditto Haynesworth. Because despite their talent you couldn't count on them to perform. That's why we run the offense we do - because you don't need to be an elite talent to perform incredibly well within it, you just need to be an instinctive and disciplined and driven football player. In a perfect world they all have enough talent. But the world isn't perfect and Bill knows that and he's willing to scheme around certain limits and deficiencies. But for that he needs to know that guys can at least be counted on to execute consistently within their limitations. And talent when he does acquire it can subjugate itself to the greater good (Ty Law was an example). Because if they can do that he usually can figure out a way to win with it via scheme.

In a perfect world you find a coordinator who is a blend of the best of what Matt and Pepper likely present, a detail oriented mind coupled with cache and charisma (say like the Ryan brothers absent the media whore egos), but if you can only choose one you go with the mind and count on your most talented core players to provide their own charismatic leadership (like a Ray Lewis or Rodney Harrison and before him here Milloy and others like Tedy and Willie and Vrabel). We are still searching for that guy or group of guys on defense (Brady and Welker have the offense covered), because it wasn't Warren or Seymour and isn't ever going to be Vince and it's not yet Mayo or Spikes or Chung.

 

[Sicilian]

I think it was in a TO, and the TV camera moved to a shot of Matt P and Bill discussing about something.


Ok. This year, our D line has played decent to good, while our secondary has been sub par. One unit is coached by Pepper while the other is coached by Matt P.
So my question is, why is Matt P calling plays instead of Pepper?

1) There's a talent difference between the DL and S

2) There's a greater range of assignments for LB's and DB's, so a coach who has to teach them probably has a better idea of what needs to happen on the play AS A WHOLE, not just in the trenches. It's kind of (not 100%) similar to why you have a LB or S wearing the green dot, and not Vince Wilfork. Aside from being able to see the field better from their perspective, someone like Mayo has to actually change what he and the other "back 7" do based on what he sees.

 

[BlueThunder]

the game has passed BB by!!!!(says the moronic cubicle dweeb with a Napoleanic complex)

Heh heh heh ..

said Gulliver to the Lilliputian's