idle thoughts

[PatsWickedPissah]

Yup.

NFL Videos: Patriots 40, Rams 22

Ah, Bethel Johnson TD!
Why can't we draft TD catching WRs like that in the 2nd round any more?

 

[patfanken]

Not that the refs aren't maddeningly inconsistent, but the difference in the instances you cite are established position. In one case the DB was established (or stopped) in front of him, and had he come back into or through him he'd have been called for OPI. In the other our DB was still in chase mode playing the receiver and not the ball and when the receiver attempted to stop and establish himself our DB impeded him by running into him. Our player needed to know that you only chase 'em so far...the intended WR was headed for out of bounds unless he stopped so our DB needed to have pulled up and been looking for that ball. I believe the comment was made at the time that some of our DB's being primarily ST guys have a different mindset (running into or through your guy on ST is a good thing) and have to learn to shed that mindset to play the position they're being asked to on defense.

I am constantly frustrated by watching so many secondary players NOT being able to get their heads turned around. This happens all over the league and is stunning to me since in those years I coached the secondary at the HS level in EVERY practice we had "find the ball" drills, and at the HS level I rarely had a kid NOT able to at least have his head turned in the right direction when the ball arrived.

In the one year I played the secondary after college, we didn't have a single practice where DBS didn't have find the ball drills. I was a limited athlete with moderate physical gifts playing an entirely new position and while no one would ever say I was great in coverage (actually the BEST thing you could say for me was I was an excellent tackler.....after the catch. No YAC on me. Lots of completions, but very little YAC ....), I very rarely was caught with my back to the ball.

I don't understand why we see it so often throughout the league. These are world class athletes with the best coaching in the world. I can find NO excuse why they can't do this better. If I can teach HS kids who can barely chew gum and walk not to run with their backs to the ball, why do truly exceptional athletes to it so often.

BTW - this would be one of my first questions to BB when we sit down for our one on one

IIRC Brown not only was running around in the secondary completely oblivious to where the ball was, he compound his running into the receiver by grabbing him. I wouldn't have accepted it from a HS player, and the fact BB put Ventrone in there instead of Brown vs the Jets, neither did he.

 

[Uncle Rico]

...

5.) I agree with Ken about the defense. I have been saying for weeks that this defense is getting better. Everyone focused on the last two drives in the Giants game where the Pats failed after losing Spikes, Chung, Barrett, and Guyton; but ignore the defense held up very well against a top QB in the league. ....

It was interesting watching the Niners-Giants game Sunday. Manning ALMOST did the same thing against a much more highly regarded defense: He marched the Giants downfield from the 20 to make it 27-20 with 8:43 left, then came just short on the final drive (which also started at the 20), having a fourth-down pass knocked down at the SF 10-yard line. Which basically means I got to feel better about the Patriots defense AND watch the Giants lose in one go, so that was good.

 

[patfanken]

I was going to start my own thread, but I figure I will just tack onto this thread with some thoughts:

1.) I have been listening to NY radio and reading Jets message boards this week and it is shocking how many media people, fans, and Jets players actually believe that the Jets outplayed the Patriots on Sunday night and if it wasn't for three or four "unlucky" plays. Do they realize the Pats won by 3 TDs and the Pats pretty much dominated most of the second half?

you can say that about any game. Even games you were crushed.

.)2. I think the last seven games is the best medicine for this defense. We won't get a good barometer where the defense really is because of the poor offenses they face, but confidence and continuity have a lot to do with any team's defensive success. The Pats have a lot of opportunities to work on both over the next two months.

I think that Pats fans have to hope for a Colt-like scenario when they won their superbowl. They had one of the worst D's in the league for much of the season, but one that played much better in the playoffs.

As far as our defense looks, I'd like to see how they measure up in 3rd down efficiency over the last 4 games. I'd have a feeling they'd be in the top 15.

They are going to scramble to find bodies the next few games while people get healthy, but luckily they aren't going to be huge offensive challenges from the 3 of the next 4 teams they meet

3.) I agree with the orginal poster about most of his posts. One in particular I want to expand is Felger. I like him, but he cannot give up on his themes. The Jets fall into two of his favorites - The Jets own you and the cap is crap. Both are no longer true. The Pats have the head to head battle in the Rex Ryan era and as Skip Bayless pointed out (and boy I hate quoting Bayless other than to ridicule him) the Pats seem to have the Jets' number and the playoff game last year looks like a fluke. Also, the Jets let several key components from last year go because of money and they are seriously missing them now from Braylon Edwards (they lost their deep threat) to Damien Woody (although he may not have helped them, but his contribution is missed on the line) to Shaun Ellis (not a great player anymore, but there is definitely something missing on their d-line now).

Only the fact they they got a $10MM cap break in the CBA saved them from having to make even more draconian cuts the past off season. As it is they had to back load a number of contracts and restructures to have the 10MM in cap space they currently are reported to have.

While they won't be totally cap strapped, they aren't going to be able to be huge players in next season's FA pool. They SHOULD be able to pick up one significant FA, but add one impact guy ISN'T going to solve what ails the Jets next season. They need to SIGNIFICANT work at LB, TE, OL, S, and WR.

4.) It is funny that when Jets fans want to ridicule Belichick's drafting and praise Tannenbaum's, they always point to Sanchez as an example of Tannenbaum's genius. Really?!? He was a fifth overall selection and he is a middle of the pack QB who cannot be anything more than a game manager. Also, I think Schottenheimer gets a bad wrap from Jets fans. He is not a great OC, but he has a QB with serious limitations who shows that when you take the reigns off of him for more than a drive or two that he falls apart.

I think more an more Jet fans are reluctantly coming to the conclusion that Sachez IS a limited QB. Personally I don't thinks he's as bad as a lot of Pats fans make out, but he's not nearly as good as most Jet fans have hoped.

Now Jet fans have to hope that Sanchez has a development jump like Rothlessburger and Rodgers have had after their 3rd seasons. Jumps like that happen, but are rare.

5.) I agree with Ken about the defense. I have been saying for weeks that this defense is getting better. Everyone focused on the last two drives in the Giants game where the Pats failed after losing Spikes, Chung, Barrett, and Guyton; but ignore the defense held up very well against a top QB in the league.

This is part of the reason why I never jumped off the bandwagon after two losses. I knew the offense would correct itself and I was encouraged by the clear progression of the defense.

i don't think there are many Pats fans who believe that the defense was the main reason for those 2 losses. For every bad drive like the last Giant drive, there have been may more good ones. And while the 3rd down efficiency was at over 50% at the start of the season, I would venture to guess that over the last 3 games its been in the 30-40%% range (a little help here from any stat geek)

6.) On defensive player not getting nearly enough credit is Brandon Deaderick. Since he has been back, the pass rush has been much improved. The Pats pressured Eli Manning 21 times. They pressured Roethlisburger a lot. We all saw how the defense were all over Sanchez. Carter and Anderson got all the credit this past Sunday, but Deaderick definitely had something to do with it too.

That's a nice pick up Rob. Deadrick has been a nice surprise. His development, I bet, was the main reason for being able to let Haynesworth go. He gave us good push up the middle was, cheaper and younger.

7.) I also agree with Ken about the blueprint crap. Such media created BS. The Jets know the "blueprint" as well as anyone and has most of the tools to execute it, but couldn't. The Pats' offense has weaknesses just like every offense including the Packers. A very good or great defense has an opportunity to exploit those weaknesses. That is the only way that this whole blueprint stuff has any relevance.

Actually I started to believe in the blueprint scenario after the 2nd loss. However the Jets game only confirmed to me that a good part of the poor offensive showing in the 2 losses were as much from poor execution from the Pats than any defensive revelation from our opponents.

I look forward to our next meeting with the Steelers.

 

[Fball]

The Jets D was stopping the Pats for awhile. I'm not sure their ultimate demise plays into the idea that there isn't as much of a blueprint as thought; no D can overcome too many mistakes that are out of their control, like fumbled punt returns & inept offensive play.

They definitely got tired. The Pats hurry-up was a big part of that, but if the Jets O could have sustained a few drives, it would have likely changed the complexion of the game somewhat.

 

[Uncle Rico]

... if the Jets O could have sustained a few drives, it would have likely changed the complexion of the game somewhat.

That opening drive seemed to kill them. They came out on fire moving at will and it looked like a blowout in the making. Then "don't break" kicked in for the Pats' D and Folk missed and the Jets never got the offensive mojo going again.

 

[Rob0729]

While they won't be totally cap strapped, they aren't going to be able to be huge players in next season's FA pool. They SHOULD be able to pick up one significant FA, but add one impact guy ISN'T going to solve what ails the Jets next season. They need to SIGNIFICANT work at LB, TE, OL, S, and WR.

What Felger doesn't get is teams don't go into cap hell anymore. They go into cap heck though. Teams don't fall into the "blow it up scenarios" that teams like the 49ers fell into when they were tens of millions over the cap. What happens now is that teams have to shed veterans and not resign certain free agents. Felger thought that the Jets kept everyone they wanted, but I think if that was the case that Ellis and Brad Smith would be with the Jets right now. Possibly Braylon Edwards.

I think more an more Jet fans are reluctantly coming to the conclusion that Sachez IS a limited QB. Personally I don't thinks he's as bad as a lot of Pats fans make out, but he's not nearly as good as most Jet fans have hoped.

Now Jet fans have to hope that Sanchez has a development jump like Rothlessburger and Rodgers have had after their 3rd seasons. Jumps like that happen, but are rare.

Personally, I think Sanchez is a top game managers. As long as they can limit his passes to about 20-25 attempts and not have to ask him to carry the offense more than one or two drives a game, he can be effective. You get a scenario when he is in a shoot out like Sunday and he becomes a liability. With the Jets defense and running game taking a step back, he definitely isn't making a progression. Notice how during their three game winning streak when the defense performed very well against bad offenses and the running game got going, people thought Sanchez had turned the corner.

i don't think there are many Pats fans who believe that the defense was the main reason for those 2 losses. For every bad drive like the last Giant drive, there have been may more good ones. And while the 3rd down efficiency was at over 50% at the start of the season, I would venture to guess that over the last 3 games its been in the 30-40%% range (a little help here from any stat geek)

Ken, you weren't on the board last week. Most of the doom and gloomers claimed that this defense was just as bad as it was at the beginning of the year and a main reason for the lost.

That's a nice pick up Rob. Deadrick has been a nice surprise. His development, I bet, was the main reason for being able to let Haynesworth go. He gave us good push up the middle was, cheaper and younger.

Deaderick showed a lot of flashes last year. My only concern about him is his maturity. Word is he has had issues in the past year. Hopefully, those have passed. He could end up being the best pick up in last year's draft based on his production and draft position.

Actually I started to believe in the blueprint scenario after the 2nd loss. However the Jets game only confirmed to me that a good part of the poor offensive showing in the 2 losses were as much from poor execution from the Pats than any defensive revelation from our opponents.

I look forward to our next meeting with the Steelers.

I never believed the blueprint stuff. We herd that too many times. Also, one thing I noticed and I think Paul Perrillo pointed out this week, Brady was wearing a stress band on his throwing arm. All these rumors about an injury of a sort may be true.

I also look forward to a rematch with the Steelers. I think they kinda blindsided the Pats with a whole new gameplan which they have never run ever. They are a zone defense and they primarily played man and I don't know if the Pats were prepared for it. They will be in the playoffs.

 

[ralmat55]

Welcome back online Ken. Your "idle thoughts" posts are one of my favorite things about this Board. Thought this might be good place to share some of my own thoughts although I'm sure they will be inferior to those of the master.

Sunday's win changed my entire perspective on how I view this team and its chances this season. The word is character and this patriots team has it.

The defensive strategy employed against the Jets is the strategy they should use going forward this year. My definition of a "great" defensive lineman is that they can routinely beat a double-team block. The definition of a "good" Dlineman is that they demand a double-team block. The Patriots do not have any great DLs but they have enough good ones where they can get a lot of winnable 1 on 1s. Just keep attacking with that front 4

When Spikes and/or Fletcher return, the patriots will do a good enough job stopping the run

Philip Adams and Sterling Moore look like players - fast and instinctive. Can anyone remember another player promoted to the 53 roster who went on to play every snap as effectively as Moore did last week? Very impressive. Another good thing about Moore: as a converted corner, he might have enough cover skills to play a slot receiver reducing the amount of time the Patriots have to spend in their nickel defense. Being forced into the nickel on early downs has really effected their run defense over the last few seasons

It might be a good thing for Devin McCourty to miss a couple of games and clear his head a little. I think he'll be closer to the player he was in 2010 than the player he's been so far this year when he returns

Offense wins games & championships. This is almost sacrilegous for me to say, but I now believe it's true. The Patriots defense only has to be good enough to protect a lead and not be dominated so the offense can get on the field

To get into the playoffs and win games when they arrive, the Patriots offense needs to get better and be more consistent. To me, the best recipe to improve this offense is to make better use of their running backs. Not only by establishing a running game and sticking with it throughout the game but also by throwing the ball to them. Effective sweep runs and swing passes will do alot to stop opponent defenses from packing the middle of the field.