Pats release Leigh Bodden

[Ring 6]

Where did I say my standard was infallible? I said that BB makes mistakes sometimes, I guess that automatically means I want him fired and someone else brought in.

Well, you pulled out a 4 year old decision to go for a 4th down to call a mistake. I would assume if you are still going back that far your standard is infallibility.
Of course he makes mistakes, he is in a business where 50/50 is outstanding.
Just found your comments curious.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Well, you pulled out a 4 year old decision to go for a 4th down to call a mistake. I would assume if you are still going back that far your standard is infallibility.
Of course he makes mistakes, he is in a business where 50/50 is outstanding.
Just found your comments curious.

It was just an example. There are few when it comes to BB, I've stood by most of his decisions other don't.
Felt the Seymour trade was the right move. Still do
Felt the decision to not re-sign Asante was the right move. Still do
Felt 4th and 2 was the right move
etc etc...

But it's hard to defend the latest constant high drafting of DB's and still finding a way to leave position not only paper thin, but with so many question marks. Hopefully these are the right moves but BB has had his moments where he's made poor decisions and showed poor judgement. It happens, that's all I'm saying. Is there any coach I'd rather have? No, but not every move can just be assumed to be the right one for the team.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Well, he had the advantage of watching Gostkowski in practice all week and all of his warmups.

C'mon now, why would you even go into a game with a certain kicker when you don't trust him to hit a 48 yarder over going for it on 4th and 11.

It was a horrible decision and it's not hindsight because I was completely confused as it was happening.

 

[PittPatriot]

Well, he had the advantage of watching Gostkowski in practice all week and all of his warmups.

…and what did he glean from that experience? That he had a kicker who was competent to kick off and kick PATs but NOT moderate range field goals?
Sounds like a heck of a kicker to me; nice job drafting and resigning to a long-term deal, Coach..
Obviously, there was nothing wrong with Goskowski all week or in warm-ups or with the weather or wind, etc.
I am with Patsy on this - it was a mistake. One of a few on-field, and many off field from the GOAT Coach we are overall very lucky to have.

 

[supafly]

…and what did he glean from that experience? That he had a kicker who was competent to kick off and kick PATs but NOT moderate range field goals?
Sounds like a heck of a kicker to me; nice job drafting and resigning to a long-term deal, Coach..
Obviously, there was nothing wrong with Goskowski all week or in warm-ups or with the weather or wind, etc.
I am with Patsy on this - it was a mistake. One of a few on-field, and many off field from the GOAT Coach we are overall very lucky to have.

While i agree there have been obvious mistakes made, we have reaped many rewards and benefits.

Let's not forget that we're coming off a 14-2 yr, and are currently 5-1.

FWIW--a FG of almost 50 yards is not exactly "automatic," so let's not act like it was a 35 yarder either. I am sure he had his reasons, even though I do agree with your questioning.

 

[dhamz]

I don't know what information he had access to that you or I didn't when he went for it on 4th and 11 instead of kicking a very make-able field goal in a SB which was a defensive struggle. Sometimes the guy just makes mistakes. Not saying this will or won't be one, but there's no guarantee it will have been in the best interest of the team.

I think anyone who watched that game and saw Ghostowski walk off the field after snap hooking a kick-off way out of bounds a few minutes earlier knows what information he likely based that decision was based on.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I think anyone who watched that game and saw Ghostowski walk off the field after snap hooking a kick-off way out of bounds a few minutes earlier knows what information he likely based that decision was based on.

Right, we all had that information. And it was an awful decision based off that information. Like I said I agreed with 4th and 2, if that situation ever came up again I'd probably say hell yeah go for it again. If this situation came up again no freaking way would I want them going for it regardless of one kick OOB earlier in the game. One of the worst decisions in SB history

 

[BlackandBlue1111]

No sense crying over spilled milk. A lot of bad decisions have been made on draft day resulting in todays starting secondary. Live with it.

 

[Ring 6]

It was just an example. There are few when it comes to BB, I've stood by most of his decisions other don't.
Felt the Seymour trade was the right move. Still do
Felt the decision to not re-sign Asante was the right move. Still do
Felt 4th and 2 was the right move
etc etc...

But it's hard to defend the latest constant high drafting of DB's and still finding a way to leave position not only paper thin, but with so many question marks. Hopefully these are the right moves but BB has had his moments where he's made poor decisions and showed poor judgement. It happens, that's all I'm saying. Is there any coach I'd rather have? No, but not every move can just be assumed to be the right one for the team.

Well you are kind of making my point. It is totally unrealistic to expect there to not be draft picks that dont work out. No one is saying every move is a good one or that none can be questioned, except you who are implying that you aren't allowed to say that.
As far as the corners, we drafted one 3 years in a row in the 1st or 2nd round. One played quite a bit and played decent as a rookie then lost it in year 2. One was one of the 5 best corners in the NFL as a rookie, the best rookie corner in many, many years. One suffered an injury.
I do not understand how that can be described as awful, except by unrealistic fans who blame the drafter for the injury. A HR a strike out after fouling off a bunch of pitches and a to be determined is not terrible.

 

[Uncle Rico]

Saw this in Bedard's Sunday NFL Notes column today:

1. If you don’t think it’s possible that Antwaun Molden is better than Leigh Bodden, then you weren’t watching closely enough. Whatever you perceived Bodden to be did not match reality. Names don’t count. Production does.

(Can't link to story; paid content).

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Well you are kind of making my point. It is totally unrealistic to expect there to not be draft picks that dont work out. .

I never disputed this but for some reason you continue to insist that I'm expecting perfection. My point is that some people flat out refuse to accept the fact that BB has showed poor judgement in certain instances and insist that it was for the better, when in a few instances it clearly was not. The fact that multiple people have tried to defend the 4th and 11 decision is proof.

 

[Ring 6]

I never disputed this but for some reason you continue to insist that I'm expecting perfection. My point is that some people flat out refuse to accept the fact that BB has showed poor judgement in certain instances and insist that it was for the better, when in a few instances it clearly was not. The fact that multiple people have tried to defend the 4th and 11 decision is proof.

This is the line of argument that is so frustrating on this board. Anyone who disagrees with your criticism of a decision is deemed as never ever accepting BB has made a poor decision.
I do not see anyone saying that. I see many people saying he makes many more good than bad. I see many people saying he gets the benefit of the doubt either because he has more information at his disposal or a good track record. I don't see anyone saying he is right because he is never wrong, yet you respond as if that is what he is saying.

Here is my approach, for example.
I believe in BBs philosophy and the results tell me I should.
I do not have as much information available to me as he did when he made the decision. (This is particularly pertinent with draft picks where he has studied every play they played on film, met them, talked to coaches, gotten the opinion of numerous football people who work for him, and i see some college games and read internet opinions. To say that I am have the amount of information available to critique that pick would be the same as saying I think I know how to fix the economy so the country should do what I want)
I rate BBs track record as superior.
Therefore, at the point of a decision being made, when I am unaware of all of the details, I will assume there were sound reasons for the decision and that it is more likely to be good than bad based upon the decision making process that he employs and the results that have come from it.
THAT approach has me called a homer who blindly agrees with everything BB does.
Do you see what is wrong with that?

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Here is my approach, for example.
I believe in BBs philosophy and the results tell me I should.
I do not have as much information available to me as he did when he made the decision. (This is particularly pertinent with draft picks where he has studied every play they played on film, met them, talked to coaches, gotten the opinion of numerous football people who work for him, and i see some college games and read internet opinions. To say that I am have the amount of information available to critique that pick would be the same as saying I think I know how to fix the economy so the country should do what I want)
I rate BBs track record as superior.
Therefore, at the point of a decision being made, when I am unaware of all of the details, I will assume there were sound reasons for the decision and that it is more likely to be good than bad based upon the decision making process that he employs and the results that have come from it.
THAT approach has me called a homer who blindly agrees with everything BB does.
Do you see what is wrong with that?

I agree with that approach, no doubt I still would take him over any other coach. GM I'm not so sure anymore although he's definitely up there. But the post I was responding to initially said they had no doubt that he acted in the best interest of the team, which you cannot know until it plays out. Letting go of 2 corners and a safety (won't count Merriweather because he clearly sucks) who have multiple years experience in the system could very well come back to bite you when you don't have anymore exp behind the 2 starters, but we'll see maybe it was for the best.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

Guys I am concerned, it is almost 12 and no releases? Are we really going into Pittsburgh without cutting Chung and McCourty? This doesn't sound like the Pats we know and love.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree with that approach, no doubt I still would take him over any other coach. GM I'm not so sure anymore although he's definitely up there. But the post I was responding to initially said they had no doubt that he acted in the best interest of the team, which you cannot know until it plays out. Letting go of 2 corners and a safety (won't count Merriweather because he clearly sucks) who have multiple years experience in the system could very well come back to bite you when you don't have anymore exp behind the 2 starters, but we'll see maybe it was for the best.

Wel there is no doubt that he is acting in the best interest of the team. That doesn't mean the decision will turn out to be good, but it means that a guy who is a good decision maker felt that it was the right decision with the criteria being what is in the best interest of the team.
We may never actually know whether this was a good decision or a poor one (Bodden) because we do not know the reasons, and therefore will be comparing what the next guy up does to a guess at what Bodden would have done.

Who is the second corner he 'let go of'? Dowling is hurt, not cut. If you are talking about Butler, he chose Moulden over Butler. I have no problem letting go of a guy who isn't better than the guy who beat him out, regardless of where they were drafted, do you?

 

[doesntmatter1]

For some reason i am not overyly concerned with our secondary. If Bodden isn't starting, i could not really envision him playing the slot against guys similar to welker. Speed imo has always been an issue with bodden. Once arrington beat him out I thought he might be gone next year, but not this year considering dowling's health.

To lift spirits, I doubt any of our other guys are worse than deltha oneal, wilhite, tory james, duane starks, fernando bryant, etc. And somehow with our dead last defense, it feels like it is impossible to drop 40 or more points on us unlike other teams statistically better(colts, texans etc).

Lastly, please never bring up that 4th and 11. I can rationalize almost every decision BB makes but to go for it instead of punting when they were consistently being stopped that game just leaves me extremely perplexed and a little angry. Field position was huge that game.

 

[Patspsycho]

I get a kick out of how much BB's decision-making has been questioned on this board.

This team has been 18-3 since 2010.

If they go 5-5, then perhaps his course of action should be questioned, but until then, I'm perfectly happy with the way things are going so far.

 

[Ring 6]

I get a kick out of how much BB's decision-making has been questioned on this board.

This team has been 18-3 since 2010.

If they go 5-5, then perhaps his course of action should be questioned, but until then, I'm perfectly happy with the way things are going so far.

But we are entitled to winning the SB every year!!!
See here is how it works. BB sucks because BB has done such a great job that we should win the SB every year. So when we don't we have to find something BB did to prevent the SB that BB put us in the position to expect from being won. Therefore BB is doing such a great job that when he doesn't win every game, much less every SB by defintion he sucks.
Hope that helps you see the light.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Wel there is no doubt that he is acting in the best interest of the team. That doesn't mean the decision will turn out to be good, but it means that a guy who is a good decision maker felt that it was the right decision with the criteria being what is in the best interest of the team.
We may never actually know whether this was a good decision or a poor one (Bodden) because we do not know the reasons, and therefore will be comparing what the next guy up does to a guess at what Bodden would have done.

Who is the second corner he 'let go of'? Dowling is hurt, not cut. If you are talking about Butler, he chose Moulden over Butler. I have no problem letting go of a guy who isn't better than the guy who beat him out, regardless of where they were drafted, do you?

Yes, Butler is the 2nd guy I was talking about. But time will tell. If the secondary happens to cost us later on, then maybe BB DIDN'T act in the best interest of the team but had a moment of poor judgement. It happens. I'm willing to let it play out and see what these guys have to offer but at the time the moves are quite skeptical.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Lastly, please never bring up that 4th and 11. I can rationalize almost every decision BB makes but to go for it instead of punting when they were consistently being stopped that game just leaves me extremely perplexed and a little angry. Field position was huge that game.

I apologize for bringing that up, it's just hard to find instances where BB clearly goofed.