How quickly we forget...

[Triumph]

If I had to put money on it, I'd say they're going to be better than last year in the second half of this year. I wouldn't be surprised to see top tier defensive play in the second half. More specifically, I'd expect to see our best defense from week 12 on.

You want to be playing your best football in December, January and February

 

[JJDChE]

You wouldn't be surprised to see top tier defensive play in the second half? Seriously? What exactly have they shown defensively that gives you hope they could accomplish that? I'd settle for a league average defense going forward and would consider that a significant improvement.

Personnel and history.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

On one hand it is encouraging.

On the other hand it's discouraging as I was hoping to carry that momentum into this season. Over the 2nd half of the season this defense WAS very stout. Guys like Cunningham, Brace, Deadrick, Pryor seemed to be growing into their roles and then at the end got injured of benched. This year 3 were PUP/IR'd and 1 has been completely ineffective. The safety situation is another thing, completely rebuilding at FS now. DL is completely new aside from Wilfork. Would have beeen nice to have some continuity because we seemed to have been building something special but it's like we are starting all over again. Hopefully Brace, Deadrick, and Cunningham get back on track.

 

[Shockt327]

Not to be a buzz kill....

But I followed NEs stat line/rank on all the sites through last year (and every year). The Patriots were consistently ranked in the late 20-30s in yards and early 20s in points allowed throught the entire year....right on up till those two games against the Jets and Bears were the opponents just totally imploded. Then our defensive rank skyrocketed. Then had two games against MIA and BUF who had nothing to play for (and played like it).

So, I really don't think it's a 1st half vs 2nd half deal. It's more like the impact two total opposing meltdowns can have on a parity driven league. Cause once you get beyond the truly elite - the difference between the bottom end of the mediocre defenses and the top end really isn't that great. In fact, it's so small a pair of games can make a total difference.

And yeah, the 2010 D was mediocre. In fact, that might be a compliment.

 

[RodThePat]

Personnel and history.

What personnel and history? They haven't been a top tier defense since 2006, and pretty much none of the guys that made that unit great are here today.

 

[JJDChE]

I don't think the impact of an IN SHAPE Haynesworth can be overstated. If he can get there, wow. Huge. You have several factors that could add up to something special...

-Time on the field together as a group, particularly for the new adds, Haynesworth, Ellis, Anderson, Carter, Ras-I, etc.
-Haynesworth getting in shape
-Mayo coming back (mid-season-ish)
-Opening up the playbook (this will be, by far, the biggest key)
-The spot safeties getting experience, whoever is in there will get better

 

[Ron Sellers]

Not to be a buzz kill....

But I followed NEs stat line/rank on all the sites through last year (and every year). The Patriots were consistently ranked in the late 20-30s in yards and early 20s in points allowed throught the entire year....right on up till those two games against the Jets and Bears were the opponents just totally imploded. Then our defensive rank skyrocketed. Then had two games against MIA and BUF who had nothing to play for (and played like it).

So, I really don't think it's a 1st half vs 2nd half deal. It's more like the impact two total opposing meltdowns can have on a parity driven league. Cause once you get beyond the truly elite - the difference between the bottom end of the mediocre defenses and the top end really isn't that great. In fact, it's so small a pair of games can make a total difference.

And yeah, the 2010 D was mediocre. In fact, that might be a compliment.

Very good point, I hadn't thought about it that way.

On the other hand however, if you are to remove the four best performances as outliers and anomalies, shouldn't you remove the four worst games as well?

 

[JJDChE]

What personnel and history? They haven't been a top tier defense since 2006, and pretty much none of the guys that made that unit great are here today.

If you look at our defensive roster, it's much better than most teams. SS is the only real position of weakness. We have good-to-great players at every other position. They have the potential. We have enough very good players at each level for this to be a very good defense.

 

[JJDChE]

Not to be a buzz kill....

But I followed NEs stat line/rank on all the sites through last year (and every year). The Patriots were consistently ranked in the late 20-30s in yards and early 20s in points allowed throught the entire year....right on up till those two games against the Jets and Bears were the opponents just totally imploded. Then our defensive rank skyrocketed. Then had two games against MIA and BUF who had nothing to play for (and played like it).

Yeah, it's easy to say that, but we also played some pretty crappy teams earlier in the year that had virtually nothing to play for and they completely lit us up.

We only allowed less than 275 passing yards 3 times in the first 11 games and never allowed less than 200, but in the last 6 games we allowed less than 250 in every game and less than 200 in 3 of 6 games. I find that hard to write off as teams rolling over for us.


I'm not saying they went from terrible to awesome last year. They went from terrible to average. I just think they can make bigger improvement this year and potentially get to kinda awesome.

 

[Deus Irae]

Much like last year, there's going to be a question of how much any improvement is the product of the coaching and how much is the product of actually improved play*. Last year, it was mostly coaching. This year, with Haynesworth being brought along slowly and the secondary still being a work in progress, as well as the potential return of Mayo, we will hopefully see a lot more improvement that is personnel related.

* it should be noted that the biggest improvement so far this season has clearly (IMO) been the coaching decision to retreat from the man coverage in the defensive secondary.

 

[TruthSeeker]

That requires me to look into the past. I'm not a historian.

Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it

That requires me to look into the future. I'm not a fortune teller.

Those who fail to plan plan to fail

Don't you have anything that allows me to take immediate observations, generalize them into snap judgments and panic/celebrate accordingly? The teevee tells me that the Pats defense is horrific and the teevee people wouldn't do that if it wasn't true.

After all this seeking around for truth, who knew that I just had to turn on the idiot box?

 

[TruthSeeker]

I share your sentiment, although I am encouraged by the fact that BB was willing to try something different this year with the defensive front and that, combined with the shortened offseason, may mean a longer period of adjustment before we see the results we want.

I thought the thinking was to try something different in order to have a shorter period of adjustment.

 

[JJDChE]

Much like last year, there's going to be a question of how much any improvement is the product of the coaching and how much is the product of actually improved play*.

Is one more valid than the other?

 

[Deus Irae]

Is one more valid than the other?

One is more helpful than the other come playoff time, when coaching evens out a bit.

 

[JJDChE]

One is more helpful than the other come playoff time, when coaching evens out a bit.

Doesn't talent even out, too?

 

[Deus Irae]

Doesn't talent even out, too?

no













.............

 

[JJDChE]

no













.............

Right.....

 

[Shockt327]

Yeah, it's easy to say that, but we also played some pretty crappy teams earlier in the year that had virtually nothing to play for and they completely lit us up.

We only allowed less than 275 passing yards 3 times in the first 11 games and never allowed less than 200, but in the last 6 games we allowed less than 250 in every game and less than 200 in 3 of 6 games. I find that hard to write off as teams rolling over for us.


I'm not saying they went from terrible to awesome last year. They went from terrible to average. I just think they can make bigger improvement this year and potentially get to kinda awesome.

I dunno. The 4 best defensive outings - and they were good - were bookends to that game where Matt Flynn of all people, absolutely lit up the D and almost got a W.

I just find that hard to swallow. That's also bolstered by Sanchez (again, of all people) beating the D in the playoffs (and he was a huge reason why the D ranking skyrocketed in the first place).

I do think the D can play better. But I really think it hinges on Fat Albert, Andersen getting more pass situation reps, and Devin McCourtey getting back to 2010 form (more zone coverage?).

 

[Deus Irae]

Right.....

The Cowboys of the recent past are a pretty good example of what I'm talking about. The talent was there, but the coaching wasn't, so they struggled to make the playoffs and didn't do anything when they did. To succeed in the NFL generally requires competent coaching, and good coaching can help a lesser team navigate the regular season. To excel come playoff time requires excellent talent, usually on both sides of the ball, because you've usually got good coaches matched up against one another.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it




Those who fail to plan plan to fail




After all this seeking around for truth, who knew that I just had to turn on the idiot box?

Yesterday, on NFLN Total Access, Rodney and Willie were and the defense came up. The jist was both were somewhat dumbfounded and could only conclude the defense was there to limit the opponent to 20 points.

What's interesting is if you look at the roughly 15 minutes played in the 4th quarter with a 2 or 3 score lead, they have given up 425 yards. The 5% marginal gametime represents 20% of the yards.