Defense? What defense!!!

[Synovia]

Because the entire team played like garbage.. From Brady right on down. But god forbid you let facts get in the way of your opinion...

The passrush was about the 15th problem during the playoff game. If you want to pick one thing, its the Patriots Offense turning the ball over several times that was the main culprit.

Brady seems to have a penchant for getting strip sacked early in playoff games lately.

 

[DaBruinz]

The worst was the play where McCourty was trailing Jackson, Arrington had bracketed him deep, and one of the safeties came over inside. They had 3 guys there when the ball got there, and Jackson still came down with it in the endzone. Nothing you can do there.

I Agree.. Had Arrington attacked the ball, he could have grabbed it in front of Jackson and taken it for a pick 6.. Instead, he sat there waiting in the end zone only to have Jackson come zooming across to make the one-handed catch..

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Question for the experts: in your opinion, can our D be relied upon to step up when Brady and our O falter?

Those who played the game and those who know it - including those few here who think they know it all thanks to BB's PCs - refer to situational football to explain why the D played the way it played.

So, if the situation requires our D to say get out of the field quickly by forcing punts or keep the opponent's scoring restricted to just FGs, have we seen enough of our D for the last two/three seasons to have confidence that they will?

PS: I am not hitting against our D as it seems to be the purpose of this thread. I am elated with our W and impressed by our D's goal line stand; at the same time, I am unnerved by the multiple big completions that opponent QBs/WRs seem to be capable of making during any situation. Hence the query.

Thanks,

Obviously, your unnerving is unfounded because the last two games have proved that the opponent can't make plays during any situation.

Is your contention that San Diego purposely turned the ball over four times?

Is it your contention that Miami waited to mid way through the 4th quarter spotted a multi score lead so they could prove they could do it?

 

[Synovia]

Both the Jets and the Steelers played teams that have serious QB issues. To think that the Pats are "near the bottom of the league" because they played a good division rival and a team with one of the top offenses in the league is just foolishness.

It's amazing how people like yourself won't give credit where it's due.

LUKE MCCOWN!11!!!!!! LUKE mcCOWN! TAVARRIS JACKSON!

 

[Bostonian1962]

Lets also not forget that 3 of the turnovers (INT, INT, Rivers fumble) were directly a result of the pass rush.

Its clear why Wifork and Anderson's plays were, but people really need to go back and rewatch that play where Sergio Brown made the pick. The primary part of that play was the Guard getting pushed back into Rivers, and Rivers not being able to complete his throwing motion.

True. There's one other point I'd like to make. The team yesterday chose not to blitz much (if at all) perhaps partly because of the inexperience of the D playing together. As the season moves on, they should be able to dial it up a notch and apply great pressure. I wouldn't get too carried away after two games. The Pats have another potent offense that will test them against next week. Plenty of time to get in synch with each other.

 

[Synovia]

I Agree.. Had Arrington attacked the ball, he could have grabbed it in front of Jackson and taken it for a pick 6.. Instead, he sat there waiting in the end zone only to have Jackson come zooming across to make the one-handed catch..

Well, to be fair on that, if Jackson isn't there, the ball is a lot easier to catch from where he is than jumping for it.

Also, Jackson caught the ball at pretty much the apex of his jump. I'm not sure Arrington had any chance of getting to it that high. I think his only chance would have been to pretty much block Jackson out of the way, and he probably would have gotten called for PI on that.

 

[goheels22002]

The point is not to "just focus on yards," but not to just look at the score and conclude that all's well. If the Pats give up 10 of 12 third downs and 500+ yards, then that point total for the opponent will be much higher in the playoffs, I guarantee.

The Colts won a ton of regular season games the past 10 years too. We all know how that usually turned out.

The one thing here that was disconcerting after last week when the Pats stopped the Fins on 12 of 14 third downs was the return to last year's tendency to let drives continue with 10 conversions on 12 third downs. We can be sure that will be a big point of emphasis this week.

But beyond that, stopping two drives on interceptions, stopping two drives with forced fumbles, and stopping one drive on a great goal line stand suggests this is a pretty tough defense.

It is also a pretty good answer to an earlier question about whether this defense can step up when needed. It did the job yesterday.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

I hope to god that Cunningham can contribute when he gets healthy as far as quick pressure goes (Ninkovich looked ok). Our only other hope would be stealing an older edge rusher from a rotting team before the deadline.

With that said, our gameplan was definitely less agressive than in preseason and against the fish.

 

[Deus Irae]

Defense is not merely yards. Last I checked, the NFL awards a win to the team with the most points.

Ok.... Henne and the Dolphins could only manage 13 points against a Texans team that's still figuring out the conversion from 4-3 to 3-4, hasn't finished higher than 17 in points scored since 2005, and finished 29th in points allowed last season.

Personally, I'd rather have dealt with the yards issue. It was less depressing.

When it arguably mattered most, the defense stoned SD on 3rd and 4th downs inside the five in the first half leading to a dagger of a field goal.

Until late in the 4th quarter, play after play arguably mattered most, because that's when the game was finally decided.

The Pats are averaging 22.5 points against and averaging 36.5 points for. The job of this defense is to give up less than 30 points a game (great work if you can get it.)

Yes, in that sense, the team looks exactly like it did in the regular season last year. Unfortunately for your argument, that's not what the team wants, as was made obvious by the massive overhaul done this past offseason.

This defense is winning the turnover battle which is a way better predictor of success. Yesterday the defense turned the Chargers over 4 times - two fumbles and two interceptions - all at critical moments in the game for the Chargers including the game winner when Anderson strip-sacked Rivers.

The defense won the turnover battle against a team it usually wins that category against. If it hadn't won the turnover battle, the team would have lost. I'm sorry, but I'm not tooting the horn of a team that was bailed out by a fumble on a bonehead play and a 4th down stop on a terrible play call.

Last season the defense improved week to week. There's no reason to doubt this defense will as well, especially with the huge turnover in personnel and switch to a more up-front pressure scheme.

Floyd was lost at the very beginning of the game, and Rivers still put up 378 yards. You can blind yourself to what happened on the field yesterday, but the Patriots struggled to even slow down what was, in effect, a 3 player offense.

It was maddening to watch the Chargers move up and down, but did you ever really feel that the Pats wouldn't win this one by more than a TD?

I picked the Patriots to win by double digits, because of the offense. The team won by double digits, because of the offense. If the teams had to line up again this week, with the Patriots being without Hernandez and the Chargers getting Floyd back, I'd pick the Chargers to win, because the Patriots defense we saw this week couldn't stop that Chargers offense from moving up and down the field and you can't rely on turnovers.

 

[Keyser Söze]

We're discussing today's defense. After game 16, we'll be talking about game 16's defense.

The Patriots are currently 31st in passing yards allowed, are 21st in opponent QB rating and are 26th in passing average allowed. It seems reasonable, to me, for people to think that's not very good.

Just stop it, you're offending the idiots with blinders on. Sadly, there seems to be quite a few in here.

 

[Synovia]

Floyd was lost at the very beginning of the game, and Rivers still put up 378 yards. You can blind yourself to what happened on the field yesterday, but the Patriots struggled to even slow down what was, in effect, a 3 player offense.

And by struggled to slow down, you mean "forced 5 turnovers and one punt on 9 drives" right?

 

[Deus Irae]

Just stop it, you're offending the idiots with blinders on. Sadly, there seems to be quite a few in here.

Hey, I think the defense will improve. I think this team will fix the safety position, somehow, even though it's the team that's largely responsible for the safety position sucking the way it does right now. I think McCourty will stop screwing up in coverage. I think the linebackers will stop completely evacuating the middle of the field. I think the line will get to the point where it can win more with just a four man rush. I think the defensive coaches will design better game plans (yes, I'm calling out that game plan yesterday, even though I almost never complain about coordinators). I think Johnson will become more of a force for this team and allow for more variety in the offense. I think Ridley may show himself to be a serviceable NFL back who can move a little better than BJGE and help in the running game.

That being said, yesterday was what it was, and it was the team relying on Brady to be just short of godlike in order to win a football game. That's got to stop.

 

[DefenseRules]

The defense makes plays, but the pass defense is awful right now. My friends and I were so frustrated with the DBs yesterday. It's time for some improvement. Something needs to change. Brady is not going to throw for 300+ yards every week. The first game didn't bother me all that much, but yesterday's game was aggravating to watch. Where was the pass rush? They signed all those DLs and still can't generate much pass rush. Boggles the mind.

 

[Synovia]

It's time for some improvement. Something needs to change. Brady is not going to throw for 300+ yards every week. .

No, he won't. They also probably won't play a guy as good as Rivers for the rest of the season.


Vick and Roethlisberger are the only guys left who are even close to as good, and they're a tier below (And I don't think Peyton plays this year).



As to not generating much pass rush, you must have missed both the interceptions, the two sacks, the 10 or so hits, and the 4 or 5 times Rivers was flushed out of the pocket and had to run.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Ok.... Henne and the Dolphins could only manage 13 points against a Texans team that's still figuring out the conversion from 4-3 to 3-4, hasn't finished higher than 17 in points scored since 2005, and finished 29th in points allowed last season.

Personally, I'd rather have dealt with the yards issue. It was less depressing.



Until late in the 4th quarter, play after play arguably mattered most, because that's when the game was finally decided.



Yes, in that sense, the team looks exactly like it did in the regular season last year. Unfortunately for your argument, that's not what the team wants, as was made obvious by the massive overhaul done this past offseason.



The defense won the turnover battle against a team it usually wins that category against. If it hadn't won the turnover battle, the team would have lost. I'm sorry, but I'm not tooting the horn of a team that was bailed out by a fumble on a bonehead play and a 4th down stop on a terrible play call.




Floyd was lost at the very beginning of the game, and Rivers still put up 378 yards. You can blind yourself to what happened on the field yesterday, but the Patriots struggled to even slow down what was, in effect, a 3 player offense.



I picked the Patriots to win by double digits, because of the offense. The team won by double digits, because of the offense. If the teams had to line up again this week, with the Patriots being without Hernandez and the Chargers getting Floyd back, I'd pick the Chargers to win, because the Patriots defense we saw this week couldn't stop that Chargers offense from moving up and down the field and you can't rely on turnovers.

Douche

It's obvious nobody will ever confuse you for a pigskin Einstein.

However, this insight is shall we say...less than stellar.

However, it should be noted that if you delete all the plays the Patriots made and added more plays made by the Chargers; the outcome might have been different.

Likewise, if you took away all our good players and added more good players to San Diego; the outcome might have been different.

Are you looking to get signed up for one of those "Real Men of Genius" beer commercials?

 

[Haley]

Floyd was lost at the very beginning of the game, and Rivers still put up 378 yards. You can blind yourself to what happened on the field yesterday, but the Patriots struggled to even slow down what was, in effect, a 3 player offense.

I still counted 4. Gates, Tolbert, Mathews, Jackson ... although Floyd did seem to be hurting us the most. Or were you not counting Gates since he was so completely shut down? It did almost seem like he wasn't there at all.

Personally, I don't think the defense has looked fantastic so far but it does look a little better than last year. And more importantly, I think it has more potential than last year. Some guys like Haynesworth are even still working on just getting in shape.

But I don't think anyone could compare our current D with something like the jets D and prove them to be on par. We do have a long way to go in pass protection. Both pass rush and secondary coverage need somehow to improve.

As we saw last year in the playoffs, the no huddle offense is a regular season gimmick only. We can rely on that in the regular season but in the playoffs, the opposing team will just make a mockery out of it with the fake injuries. Brady can only shoulder the team just so far. In the playoffs, we will need a real pass defense.

 

[Deus Irae]

I still counted 4. Gates, Tolbert, Mathews, Jackson ... although Floyd did seem to be hurting us the most. Or were you not counting Gates since he was so completely shut down? It did almost seem like he wasn't there at all.

Personally, I don't think the defense has looked fantastic so far but it does look a little better than last year. And more importantly, I think it has more potential than last year. Some guys like Haynesworth are even still working on just getting in shape.

But I don't think anyone could compare our current D with something like the jets D and prove them to be on par. We do have a long way to go in pass protection. Both pass rush and secondary coverage need somehow to improve.

As we saw last year in the playoffs, the no huddle offense is a regular season gimmick only. We can rely on that in the regular season but in the playoffs, the opposing team will just make a mockery out of it with the fake injuries. Brady can only shoulder the team just so far. In the playoffs, we will need a real pass defense.

Tolbert had 9 carries for 10 yards, tripped over his own man on that goal line run, and put the ball on the carpet for the Patriots. He was often the Patriots' 12th man on defense. I was looking at that rather than looking at his catches, so you've got a point, and I should have offered that explanation in my post. I definitely considered him much more of an ally to the Patriots than an enemy, though.

Overall, I was counting Rivers, Jackson and Gates. It was 3 players, and the Patriots focused on removing 1, but got lit up by the combination of the other 2.

 

[jetsjets]

Douche

It's obvious nobody will ever confuse you for a pigskin Einstein.

....

Are you looking to get signed up for one of those "Real Men of Genius" beer commercials?

I've seen you on other teams forums trolling it up everywhere. The amazing thing is that you abuse people on your own team's forums too! I award you with the trophy for the best (worst) pats troll in all of the internets. rofl

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Tolbert had 9 carries for 10 yards, tripped over his own man on that goal line run, and put the ball on the carpet for the Patriots. He was often the Patriots' 12th man on defense. I was looking at that rather than looking at his catches, so you've got a point, and I should have offered that explanation in my post. I definitely considered him much more of an ally to the Patriots than an enemy, though.

Overall, I was counting Rivers, Jackson and Gates. It was 3 players, and the Patriots focused on removing 1, but got lit up by the combination of the other 2.

Douche has identified why they lost by 2 TD's ans spent the majority of the game down multi scores.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

I've seen you on other teams forums trolling it up everywhere. The amazing thing is that you abuse people on your own team's forums too! I award you with the trophy for the best (worst) pats troll in all of the internets. rofl

Ahhhh

I'm not interested in your girlfriend