Idle thoughts....current assessment...

[patfanken]

I waited a few days before I put down my thoughts about the Saturday debacle. Its been a long time since I have seen the Pats get so dominated on both sides of the ball, I couldn't watch the last half of the game. So I thought it better to wait before putting my thoughts down. I didn't want a re-occurrence of my draft day melt down

1. I don't know about you but I went into the Lions game hoping that they would lose the game. I thought it would be good for the team to get roughed up a bit, to experience a little adversity. God knows they have had precious little of it up to that time. Well "roughed up" was an understatement. "***** Slapped" would be more appropriate, and I DIDN'T want to see that.

Still I can't hate a performance that will cool the hype just a bit. LOTS of coaching points for Bill in this one. Hard to be "smug" after a performance like that. I can't remember seeing Brady THAT uncomfortable in the pocket before....even in some of his worst losses.

2. For at least the first half of the season, I suspect that we will see many more Jekyll and Hyde performances like this, not just from the Pats but across the league. Teams that look great one week, and get crushed the next. With the shortened off season and the CBA imposed practice limitations, CONSISTENCY will be in short supply for the first half of the season.

3. If there was one encouraging thing to come out of that game, is that the run defense was again very consistent....as it has been all season. OTOH, for the first time this preseason, the Pats running game wasn't exactly a paragon of efficiency

4. That was a horrible and almost inconceivable pass interference call on Ocho, and ruined what seemed to be a promising drive. I can't imagine what the refs thought he saw.

5. The Sanders cut is certainly head scratching to say the least but I don't think that it was a money move like many claim. This is NOT like the situation with Milloy in 2003. The Pats have plenty of room and while Sanders is over paid relative to his production and value, it can't be about the money when you are already over 12MM under the cap and the guy you are cutting makes "just" around $3MM.

No I think this is merely an assessment of talent and team needs. What makes this so perplexing is that there doesn't seem (at least to the fans) an immediate replacement on hand. Clearly there is something that BB knows and we aren't going to hear about until the "other shoe hits the floor"

That being said its kind of interesting that he was out of a job about a second and half once he was cut. And speaking of pick ups, who exactly is still out there in the FA S market

6. I'm a little disappointed that Cannon is going on the PUP and is unlikely to playing the first 6 games. I held hope that he would make it back sometime in the preseason so he could have an impact in the competition at G We really need someone with his potential at the position. Connolly has proven adequate, but Orenberger was revealed a bit last Saturday.

7. I can't remember a time when a preseason game had LESS interest that tonight's scrimmage. My ONLY hope is that no one gets hurt. I couldn't care less who "wins". The only real reason to watch it is to see perhaps the last glimpse of Mallot and Hoyer for the next 16 weeks, I also am looking forward to seeing Dowling play.....and WHERE. And then again it will be nice to see some Vareen action.....and Price and Solder.......and if Fletcher can repeats some of the magic we saw in the first scrimmage. Oh who am I kidding.....

8. Super excited about Mike Wright returning. IMHO he is a guy who can give us some nice push up the middle on passing downs, and can give us good pass rush out of the 3-4 DE position as well. A 4 man DL of Wright, Wilfolk, Haynesworth, and Carter will be a handful for any OL, and certainly the best pass rushing DL the Pats have EVER had.

9 But that brings to question the BEST and most INTERESTING roster cuts on the team. Just who will get the DL "seats" when the music stops A good case can be made for a LOT of guys.....some of whom will be looking for work on Monday.

10. While I still think the Jets have taken a small step back, they are clearly the Pats biggest test for the up coming season. That being said, I think BOTH the Bills and Miami have IMPROVED. To what degree remains to be seen.

Let it be noted that I HATE the fact that we have to go to Miami this early in the season to play a team that has a very good secondary and a lot of interesting pieces. I would suspect that given the short preparation time frame, you would think that the Pats will be better prepared to perform at a higher level. But first games are first game and can be very unpredictable. I am a LONG time Pats fan and STILL hold a residue of fear from the LONG years of failures in South Florida. A mere decade of relative success is not going to erase that trepidation. That is a MUST win because SD, who IMHO, is a real threat to win iy all comes to NE in a short week for the Pats.

I know we have gone to the superbowl a couple of times after starting the season 0-2. I just don't want to make a habit of it.

 

[HowardRoark]

Let it be noted that I HATE the fact that we have to go to Miami this early in the season to play a team that has a very good secondary and a lot of interesting pieces. I would suspect that given the short preparation time frame, you would think that the Pats will be better prepared to perform at a higher level. But first games are first game and can be very unpredictable. I am a LONG time Pats fan and STILL hold a residue of fear from the LONG years of failures in South Florida. A mere decade of relative success is not going to erase that trepidation. That is a MUST win because SD, who IMHO, is a real threat to win iy all comes to NE in a short week for the Pats.

I know we have gone to the superbowl a couple of times after starting the season 0-2. I just don't want to make a habit of it.

I am more worried about San Diego in Week 2. It's a home game, but they are one of the top teams in the league.

 

[Froob]

I am more worried about San Diego in Week 2. It's a home game, but they are one of the top teams in the league.

Not this early in the season

 

[SanAngeloState]

It's difficult to see such a complete and utter beatdown and maintain optimism, but it can be done. Maybe the defenses were a little unexpected and they can scheme and coach better...although the pressure up the middle was relentless and it appears the pats are simply overmatched there.

Wonder why they didn't get Guroude, he would be an improvement even if he only has one leg to play on.

 

[Kid~Brady]

Preseason game.

If this were a regular season game then I'd be worried forreal. We did lose on some one-on-one matchups but the same thing happened last season against them. After some half time adjustments, we blew them away.

Keeping that in mind, I'm limiting the stock I put into a preseason game.

 

[BlueThunder]

I have to hope that BB knows what Ellis and Haynesworth can add to the DL.....assuming he keeps both...


This year's team isn't as bad as it played vs Detroit....but just how good is it on both sides.....

Still no film on Dowling,Vereen,Haynesworth,Ellis just to name a few potentially key players......

 

[bagwell368]

I waited a few days before I put down my thoughts about the Saturday debacle. Its been a long time since I have seen the Pats get so dominated on both sides of the ball, I couldn't watch the last half of the game. So I thought it better to wait before putting my thoughts down. I didn't want a re-occurrence of my draft day melt down

1. I don't know about you but I went into the Lions game hoping that they would lose the game. I thought it would be good for the team to get roughed up a bit, to experience a little adversity. God knows they have had precious little of it up to that time. Well "roughed up" was an understatement. "***** Slapped" would be more appropriate, and I DIDN'T want to see that.

Still I can't hate a performance that will cool the hype just a bit. LOTS of coaching points for Bill in this one. Hard to be "smug" after a performance like that. I can't remember seeing Brady THAT uncomfortable in the pocket before....even in some of his worst losses.

2. For at least the first half of the season, I suspect that we will see many more Jekyll and Hyde performances like this, not just from the Pats but across the league. Teams that look great one week, and get crushed the next. With the shortened off season and the CBA imposed practice limitations, CONSISTENCY will be in short supply for the first half of the season.

3. If there was one encouraging thing to come out of that game, is that the run defense was again very consistent....as it has been all season. OTOH, for the first time this preseason, the Pats running game wasn't exactly a paragon of efficiency

4. That was a horrible and almost inconceivable pass interference call on Ocho, and ruined what seemed to be a promising drive. I can't imagine what the refs thought he saw.

5. The Sanders cut is certainly head scratching to say the least but I don't think that it was a money move like many claim. This is NOT like the situation with Milloy in 2003. The Pats have plenty of room and while Sanders is over paid relative to his production and value, it can't be about the money when you are already over 12MM under the cap and the guy you are cutting makes "just" around $3MM.

No I think this is merely an assessment of talent and team needs. What makes this so perplexing is that there doesn't seem (at least to the fans) an immediate replacement on hand. Clearly there is something that BB knows and we aren't going to hear about until the "other shoe hits the floor"

That being said its kind of interesting that he was out of a job about a second and half once he was cut. And speaking of pick ups, who exactly is still out there in the FA S market

6. I'm a little disappointed that Cannon is going on the PUP and is unlikely to playing the first 6 games. I held hope that he would make it back sometime in the preseason so he could have an impact in the competition at G We really need someone with his potential at the position. Connolly has proven adequate, but Orenberger was revealed a bit last Saturday.

7. I can't remember a time when a preseason game had LESS interest that tonight's scrimmage. My ONLY hope is that no one gets hurt. I couldn't care less who "wins". The only real reason to watch it is to see perhaps the last glimpse of Mallot and Hoyer for the next 16 weeks, I also am looking forward to seeing Dowling play.....and WHERE. And then again it will be nice to see some Vareen action.....and Price and Solder.......and if Fletcher can repeats some of the magic we saw in the first scrimmage. Oh who am I kidding.....

8. Super excited about Mike Wright returning. IMHO he is a guy who can give us some nice push up the middle on passing downs, and can give us good pass rush out of the 3-4 DE position as well. A 4 man DL of Wright, Wilfolk, Haynesworth, and Carter will be a handful for any OL, and certainly the best pass rushing DL the Pats have EVER had.

9 But that brings to question the BEST and most INTERESTING roster cuts on the team. Just who will get the DL "seats" when the music stops A good case can be made for a LOT of guys.....some of whom will be looking for work on Monday.

10. While I still think the Jets have taken a small step back, they are clearly the Pats biggest test for the up coming season. That being said, I think BOTH the Bills and Miami have IMPROVED. To what degree remains to be seen.

Let it be noted that I HATE the fact that we have to go to Miami this early in the season to play a team that has a very good secondary and a lot of interesting pieces. I would suspect that given the short preparation time frame, you would think that the Pats will be better prepared to perform at a higher level. But first games are first game and can be very unpredictable. I am a LONG time Pats fan and STILL hold a residue of fear from the LONG years of failures in South Florida. A mere decade of relative success is not going to erase that trepidation. That is a MUST win because SD, who IMHO, is a real threat to win iy all comes to NE in a short week for the Pats.

I know we have gone to the superbowl a couple of times after starting the season 0-2. I just don't want to make a habit of it.

I really liked the draft... Most of the people that didn't fall into the Mel "Eddie Munster" Kuiper fall into the media expectation of the Pats should do camp. After Kuiper "nailed" BB over Vollmer back to Borges tearing BB up for Seymour, I would hope serious Pats fans would not fall for that. Back to now.

Why shouldn't BB want to build up cap space at the expense of a guy (Sanders) slowed down by age and injury? BB could be planning on scoring several high priced cuts or making a deal. Or maybe in the here and now he likes Sergio more - or enough to justify the move.

I doubt Wright will be a starter on this team, more like a rotation guy. With $1.79M saved this year if Wright is cut or dealt, I wouldn't get to used to him being here if he has any injury concerns (he seems too) or we can't really fit him w/o cutting someone else that's young/cheap/has good potential.

 

[nnmnmmnn]

It's difficult to see such a complete and utter beatdown and maintain optimism, but it can be done. Maybe the defenses were a little unexpected and they can scheme and coach better...although the pressure up the middle was relentless and it appears the pats are simply overmatched there.

Wonder why they didn't get Guroude, he would be an improvement even if he only has one leg to play on.

Brady on D+C:

Q: "Tom to the extent that you can tell us, how much is there a team specific game plan in preseason games versus regular season games, which obviously I know it exists, is there some sense, maybe some portion of the preparation that says we're going to go out and run our stuff, and just run our stuff because we want to work on situational things and not plan specifically for the Detroit Lions?"

A: "Yeah, I mean, that's the majority of preseason football"

Q: "Is that way?"

A: "Yeah, yeah and um, the majority, is most of the time in practice we're practicing against each other, the Patriots offense versus the Patriots defense, so um, that's part of training camp, there's no excuse for not going out there and not playing well in the game, because no matter what play is called, you can still do what's best for the play. It may not be a successful play, but maybe the best thing is to throw the ball away or take a sack as a quarterback, or throw the ball only where your offensive player can catch it. I mean, that's, that's regardless of the play, or, whether it's going to be a touchdown, a touchdown type of play, you can make a good play, so that's more what your evaluated on, that's how we evaluate ourselves more so than the points on the scoreboard."

 

[Mike the Brit]

5. The Sanders cut is certainly head scratching to say the least but I don't think that it was a money move like many claim. This is NOT like the situation with Milloy in 2003. The Pats have plenty of room and while Sanders is over paid relative to his production and value, it can't be about the money when you are already over 12MM under the cap and the guy you are cutting makes "just" around $3MM.

I agree.

Possibilities.

(1) It IS about money. They have a policy of not paying more than such-and-such, whether they NEED the money to stay under the cap or not. Or perhaps they are going to make a move.

(2) They've had their eye on Sanders and haven't been happy. But it doesn't look as though they've been aggressively recruiting safeties and (it seems) it came on Sanders out of a clear blue sky. If there've been any signals it's that they aren't 100% happy with Meriweather.

(3) It's an impulsive "I-don't-want-to-see-that-guy-again" decision made in anger after a painful defeat. Bill Belichick? After a pre-season game against the Lions?

 

[PatsFanNM]

I thought they looked at Sanders on film and thought that he had either lost a step -- which he couldn't afford to lose -- or wasn't committed to playing hard, even though it was just a pre-season game.

I saw several plays where he just didn't/couldn't tackle the guy he was supposed to tackle. What was the quote from BB? "Don't send me a defensive guy who can't tackle. What am I going to do with him?"

 

[spacecrime]

It's difficult to see such a complete and utter beatdown and maintain optimism,

The key is not to think of the game as the state of the franchise. Everyone acts as though the Patriots are the team that played Detroit, not TB or Jax.

Why? Is it because the last game trumps everythign that went before?

If they sucked for two games and were brilliant for one, would everyone have a different outlook?

I think optimism and pessimism ought to be based on how you expect the pats to play next week, not what they did last week. If you totally change you expectations based on the last game played, or last quarter or last series, then you are going to have more ups and downs than a roller coaster.

Look at the recent body of work. See what they did in general. Maybe toss out the best game and the worst game and average the rest.

That's the Pats.

 

[patsfan13]

The Lions may have game planned and we probably didn't, hard to say. I remember a beat down by the Bengals in the 3rd preseason game something like 30-6, didn't mean anything when the regular season started.

The only interest in the game tonight is how the DL shakes out, TE between Smith and Yeatman and WR, the rest seems almost set.

 

[patfanken]

I agree.

Possibilities.

(1) It IS about money. They have a policy of not paying more than such-and-such, whether they NEED the money to stay under the cap or not. Or perhaps they are going to make a move.

(2) They've had their eye on Sanders and haven't been happy. But it doesn't look as though they've been aggressively recruiting safeties and (it seems) it came on Sanders out of a clear blue sky. If there've been any signals it's that they aren't 100% happy with Meriweather.

(3) It's an impulsive "I-don't-want-to-see-that-guy-again" decision made in anger after a painful defeat. Bill Belichick? After a pre-season game against the Lions?

I think its clearly #2. But the question I and many other have AT THE MOMENT is whether the Pats are better at safety right now than they were before they cut Sanders. Sanders at least knew the system well, and was a good locker room guy. Until we see how they replace him, it will be hard to evaluate his loss.

 

[The Scrizz]

It makes sense to create as much cap space as possible because it can be easily transferred into next year's cap. Why waste it if they don't think he's worth it?

 

[Mike the Brit]

I think its clearly #2. But the question I and many other have AT THE MOMENT is whether the Pats are better at safety right now than they were before they cut Sanders. Sanders at least knew the system well, and was a good locker room guy. Until we see how they replace him, it will be hard to evaluate his loss.

Well, OK, but

(1) Why weren't they preparing by putting in place a Plan B (looking at safeties as actively as they looked at DLs)?

(2) Why didn't they try to trade him?

(3) Wouldn't it have been respectful to a loyal veteran to let him know that he might not be figuring in their plans?

No answers -- just questions!

 

[Shelterdog]

Well, OK, but

(1) Why weren't they preparing by putting in place a Plan B (looking at safeties as actively as they looked at DLs)?

(2) Why didn't they try to trade him?

(3) Wouldn't it have been respectful to a loyal veteran to let him know that he might not be figuring in their plans?

No answers -- just questions!

The answers are:

1.) I'm sure they did look at safeties (they met with Sharper and others); it just seems that their final plan B was Barrett/Brown/IhedigBo. All you can do is hope that they evaluated the talent well.

2.) We're not sure they didn't try to trade him but he would be a hard guy to trade. Once you call another team about him they are instantly 98% certain you're going to cut him, and since Sanders is a veteran he'll be a free agent the second he gets cut so if you're another team you can always get him without trading for him and without assuming his current contract.

3.) It would be respectful to have let him know his status but it doesn't help the team win so why bother. Plus he must have known he was in trouble given his injury/salary status.

 

[BillyD123]

I have them 19-0 this season.
It's not a question of if they win... It's a question
of how much they win by. :rocker:

 

[Mike the Brit]

The answers are:

1.) I'm sure they did look at safeties (they met with Sharper and others); it just seems that their final plan B was Barrett/Brown/IhedigBo. All you can do is hope that they evaluated the talent well.

Sharper -- yes. But I can't remember any other safeties. I can think of more running backs that they looked at -- and the team is stuffed with running backs.

And Ihedigbo over Sanders?

2.) We're not sure they didn't try to trade him but he would be a hard guy to trade. Once you call another team about him they are instantly 98% certain you're going to cut him, and since Sanders is a veteran he'll be a free agent the second he gets cut so if you're another team you can always get him without trading for him and without assuming his current contract.

Good point.

3.) It would be respectful to have let him know his status but it doesn't help the team win so why bother. Plus he must have known he was in trouble given his injury/salary status.

Treating players respectfully is part of the Patriot Way (and, you can argue, it's good business in the long run if it lessens the bitterness that cut players feel and makes them less likely to badmouth the team to other players). Cutting veteran players early doesn't help the team, but they make a point of doing it.