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Belichick believes PAT kicks are not competitive

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Put the ball on the 15, and give a choice: kick it for 1, or start with four downs and try to get 2.
 
In regards to PAT's, if you really want to make it a competitive play get rid of the single point conversion completely and make everything a two point conversion. There would be some great drama where a team trails by one and they convert to win or lose.

Why go to that extreme when you don't have to in order to tweek it to make it exponentially more competitive?
 
Put the ball on the 15, and give a choice: kick it for 1, or start with four downs and try to get 2.

Don't even need to go that far. I think I heard at one point that the conversion % for 2-pointers is around 40%. Even if it's 50% now with advances in the game, unless you're moving the ball so far back that the kick % is 50%, it's still a safer bet to take the point.

Edit: One problem with it though would be it would eliminate the fake PAT. As you would be locked into whichever option you chose originally.
 
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All the complaints about the kick-off rule or the fines for helmet to helmet hits focus on how it impacts the game on the field. It is not a decision about that. It was a business decision.

The NFL as a business faces employees whose representatives are demanding increased safety and retired players threatening and filing class action lawsuits because the league in their view did not do enough in the area of employee safety. No business can ignore those factors.
 
Back to BB's point...IF injury is really the concern, why not simply place the ball on the 20?

Answer: Lost opportunities for 2 TV ad cycles!

QED
 
Extra points are good for either letting you celebrate with the other dudes you are watching a game with or for giving you enough time to storm over to the internet to complain about Darius Butler.
 
Extra points are good for either letting you celebrate with the other dudes you are watching a game with or for giving you enough time to storm over to the internet to complain about Darius Butler.

Good "points". Heh.
Along those lines, at the stadium it's a good time to check your personal 40 sprint speed thru obstacles rushing to the men's room and back.
 
Good "points". Heh.
Along those lines, at the stadium it's a good time to check your personal 40 sprint speed thru obstacles rushing to the men's room and back.

Look at this newbie who pees in the bathroom.
 
FWIW, I'm fairly sure BB is NOT calling for the two-point play to be from the 15 or 20, only the XP, since, as he points out, it's basically a 99%+ proposition (there were just 9 misses last year on over 1,200 attempts). [Although the exact number is probably a touch lower than that, b/c aborted attempts aren't counted.]

I think there were actually 10 misses last year, not 9, although the percentage is still better than 99 percent. The year before, though, it was higher. There were 20 misses in 2009. Maybe there was more weather?

Still, to me I think that this supports the point I was trying to make rather than disproving it. That's 10 games last year and 20 the year before that were affected by a missed point, and, as you say, it's probably more since the stat doesn't include failed conversions after kicks not attempted. Ten games, to me, though very small on a percentage basis, is not negligible -- particularly given how important each win and loss is in the NFL and how important a point can be.

It's still a play that requires precision to accomplish. The fact that most teams practice it enough to make it almost a foregone conclusion is true, but it's not a foregone conclusion. It almost is. The Cowboys lost a playoff game on a botched snap on a field goal that was actually shorter than an extra point by a yard.

Let me put is this way -- what if the proposal were, instead of moving the kick back, simply awarding 7 points for a touchdown? You could still have a two-point conversion. If you make it, you get an 8th point, but if you miss, you lose a point. I think if that were the proposal it's easier to see the point I'm trying to make -- that while the percentage is very high, it's not 100 percent.

Maybe it would indeed be a better game if the kick was moved back -- it would certainly alter the risk-reward balance for a 2 point try. But I like the game as it is. There have been enough changes recently for my tastes. 10 games a year, though a very small number, is still enough to me make it matter. It's kind of like the intentional walk in baseball. You could argue that instead the pitcher should just be able to say, "put him on base" without actually throwing 4 pitches. But, sure enough, a couple of times every season a guy throws a wild pitch or a catcher drops the ball, and it often has an effect on the game.

Belichick loves the situational risk-reward scenarios, so I can see where this would appeal to him and where it would give our team a leg up. But to me, it's good the way it is. Would it make a game where a team is down by 3 late more interesting in weather? Yes, I think so. Maybe it changes the risk-reward and clock management issues because you have to start taking into account a higher possibility that a touch down will only puts you up by a field goal instead of four points. But I'm good with the way the game is now. If nobody ever missed a field goal, I might change my mind. But sometimes they do.
 
I think there were actually 10 misses last year, not 9, although the percentage is still better than 99 percent. The year before, though, it was higher. There were 20 misses in 2009. Maybe there was more weather?

Still, to me I think that this supports the point I was trying to make rather than disproving it. That's 10 games last year and 20 the year before that were affected by a missed point, and, as you say, it's probably more since the stat doesn't include failed conversions after kicks not attempted. Ten games, to me, though very small on a percentage basis, is not negligible -- particularly given how important each win and loss is in the NFL and how important a point can be.

It's still a play that requires precision to accomplish. The fact that most teams practice it enough to make it almost a foregone conclusion is true, but it's not a foregone conclusion. It almost is. The Cowboys lost a playoff game on a botched snap on a field goal that was actually shorter than an extra point by a yard.

Let me put is this way -- what if the proposal were, instead of moving the kick back, simply awarding 7 points for a touchdown? You could still have a two-point conversion. If you make it, you get an 8th point, but if you miss, you lose a point. I think if that were the proposal it's easier to see the point I'm trying to make -- that while the percentage is very high, it's not 100 percent.

Maybe it would indeed be a better game if the kick was moved back -- it would certainly alter the risk-reward balance for a 2 point try. But I like the game as it is. There have been enough changes recently for my tastes. 10 games a year, though a very small number, is still enough to me make it matter. It's kind of like the intentional walk in baseball. You could argue that instead the pitcher should just be able to say, "put him on base" without actually throwing 4 pitches. But, sure enough, a couple of times every season a guy throws a wild pitch or a catcher drops the ball, and it often has an effect on the game.

Belichick loves the situational risk-reward scenarios, so I can see where this would appeal to him and where it would give our team a leg up. But to me, it's good the way it is. Would it make a game where a team is down by 3 late more interesting in weather? Yes, I think so. Maybe it changes the risk-reward and clock management issues because you have to start taking into account a higher possibility that a touch down will only puts you up by a field goal instead of four points. But I'm good with the way the game is now. If nobody ever missed a field goal, I might change my mind. But sometimes they do.

It's not about you. It's about what Belichick thinks.
 
FWIW, I'm fairly sure BB is NOT calling for the two-point play to be from the 15 or 20, only the XP, since, as he points out, it's basically a 99%+ proposition (there were just 9 misses last year on over 1,200 attempts). [Although the exact number is probably a touch lower than that, b/c aborted attempts aren't counted.]

I don't see how you can assume it any other way than that if he moved the extra point attempt back 5-10 yards that is also the start point for a 2pt conversion.

Does the team come out on 3rd and 4 and tell the refs and the other team;
"hey we are going to pass this down."? Hell no; why should they have to say that their extra point is actually a fake and they want to go for 2.
 
FWIW, I'm fairly sure BB is NOT calling for the two-point play to be from the 15 or 20, only the XP, since, as he points out, it's basically a 99%+ proposition (there were just 9 misses last year on over 1,200 attempts). [Although the exact number is probably a touch lower than that, b/c aborted attempts aren't counted.]

Yes but what about the fake kick attempts that are instead 2 point conversions? Those would have to be from the further distance, right?

I do like the idea but it does have some other implications. Interesting to think about nonetheless. And it might help kickers to keep a decent salary since the kickoff rule changes are going to have an impact on supply and demand of kickers that can hit the endzone.
 
Yes but what about the fake kick attempts that are instead 2 point conversions? Those would have to be from the further distance, right?

Very interesting. Hadn't thought about that. It would eliminate fakes. Also, it would eliminate the chance of getting two points on a botched PAT attempt.
 
Very interesting. Hadn't thought about that. It would eliminate fakes. Also, it would eliminate the chance of getting two points on a botched PAT attempt.

Again, rare circumstances at best. BB's point seemed to be to remedy the lack of competitiveness on 1190 or so of 1200 or so plays run each season...
 
PAT's at the 20 would be cool. It'll reinforce the importance of a good kicker.
 
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