Scott Pioli - anyone notice after he left, Pats drafted better?

[ausbacker]

Re: OT: Scott Pioli

To your point:

1st Round (27th Overall) – Devin McCourty, CB, Rutgers
2nd Round (42nd Overall) – Rob Gronkowski, TE, Arizona
2nd Round (53rd Overall) – Jermaine Cunningham, OLB, Florida
2nd Round (62nd Overall) – Brandon Spikes, LB, Florida
3rd Round (90th Overall) – Taylor Price, WR, Ohio
4th Round (113th Overall) – Aaron Hernandez, TE, Florida
5th Round (150th Overall) – Zoltan Mesko, P, Michigan

 

[PushnPencils]

Re: OT: Scott Pioli

This is simply not not a fair assessment, IMO. Weis was fine as an O.C. last year. Romeo has been fine as a D.C. in K.C.. Romeo had good years and bad as a head coach in Cleveland, which isn't much different from most Cleveland coaches. Mangini was doing pretty well in NY until Favre got injured, and he then got thrown under the bus. McDaniels hasn't had a chance to O.C. elsewhere, but he was scapegoated in Denver, where the problem was/is the ownership.

I have no issues with any of those guys at the OC or DC. I think that is their ceiling though.

 

[shakadave]

Re: OT: Scott Pioli

Anyone notice that after he left, we started drafting better?

Yes, every so often I have this thought too.

 

[patchick]

Re: OT: Scott Pioli

Is it possible that the pairing had gotten a bit stale? Sure, but it's clear that Pioli is very capable when it comes to selecting players and does a hell of a good job as a GM. That's really all I was getting at. I don't see it as a contest between BB and Pioli, since they are running teams that have recently been at very different points on the success scale, and they've needed different strategies as a result.

I have nothing against Pioli, he was a big part of this team during some amazing years. Just saying that in THAT draft class -- with that kind of ammo -- it wasn't hard to do well. (And the Chiefs placed one player on the all-rookie team, while the Patriots had three.)

 

[mcsully]

Re: OT: Scott Pioli

Also known as the Patrick Chung/Sebastian Vollmer year.

Chung? I have high hopes for him but He need's to have a big year and play 16 games or his replacement will be coming thru the draft..

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: OT: Scott Pioli

I have nothing against Pioli, he was a big part of this team during some amazing years. Just saying that in THAT draft class -- with that kind of ammo -- it wasn't hard to do well. (And the Chiefs placed one player on the all-rookie team, while the Patriots had three.)

Moeaki was their Gronk, and he caught 47 passes for a team that was throwing the ball less often than the Patriots. They pulled both of their starting safeties out of that draft. They drafted a nickel CB who played better than Butler has for the Patriots. They drafted a guard who's likely to start this year, having driven Brian Waters out of the lineup and off the team. They also drafted 2 players who got hurt early. One ended up on IR, and the other ended up being extremely limited for the rest of the year.

For a team that couldn't afford to screw around with its draft picks, it was a hell of a draft.

 

[Miguel]

Re: OT: Scott Pioli

Anyone notice that after he left, we started drafting better?

Let's say that is true. Is it really significant?Since Scott Pioli left the Patriots have won zero playoff games. Is the NFL about "winning" the draft" or about winning the Super Bowls? Scott Pioli has shown that he has done both. His successors have yet to do so.

 

[loloooooooooooo]

Re: OT: Scott Pioli

Considering Pioli drafted Brady, Wilfork, Samuel, Warren, Mankins, Seymour, Mayo and some more that are possible all time greats(besides Warren and probably Samuel) I don't see how we can tell if we drafted better or worse since he left... it seems we have some bitter people though

 

[Ring 6]

Re: OT: Scott Pioli

Let's say that is true. Is it really significant?Since Scott Pioli left the Patriots have won zero playoff games. Is the NFL about "winning" the draft" or about winning the Super Bowls? Scott Pioli has shown that he has done both. His successors have yet to do so.

Perhaps, the organization has had a large number of coach/executive employees who have worked very well together and singling out any for credit/blame is simply a shot in the dark. (Except of course BB who is the architect)

 

[PushnPencils]

Re: OT: Scott Pioli

Let's say that is true. Is it really significant?Since Scott Pioli left the Patriots have won zero playoff games. Is the NFL about "winning" the draft" or about winning the Super Bowls? Scott Pioli has shown that he has done both. His successors have yet to do so.

But that is somewhat of an indictment. We were operating with a team he built.

After a bunch of subpar drafts....we have no more Super Bowls.

 

[patchick]

Re: OT: Scott Pioli

Moeaki was their Gronk, and he caught 47 passes for a team that was throwing the ball less often than the Patriots. They pulled both of their starting safeties out of that draft. They drafted a nickel CB who played better than Butler has for the Patriots. They drafted a guard who's likely to start this year, having driven Brian Waters out of the lineup and off the team. They also drafted 2 players who got hurt early. One ended up on IR, and the other ended up being extremely limited for the rest of the year.

For a team that couldn't afford to screw around with its draft picks, it was a hell of a draft.

Of course, it was a very good draft indeed, I've never said otherwise. I simply pointed out that the Chiefs started with picks worth 50% more than than the Pats' picks, and I suspect many people would choose the Pats' draft class even-up over that fine Chiefs class.

 

[IcyPatriot]

The Pioli era starting the season off with a THUD!

 

[condon84]

Re: OT: Scott Pioli

Doesn't Belichick make all the final decisions? Could it be possible that he just had a few bad drafts?

 

[sbpatfan]

Chiefs had a good draft last year, but the year before that was horrible.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Re: OT: Scott Pioli

Let's say that is true. Is it really significant?Since Scott Pioli left the Patriots have won zero playoff games. Is the NFL about "winning" the draft" or about winning the Super Bowls? Scott Pioli has shown that he has done both. His successors have yet to do so.

Considering Pioli drafted Brady, Wilfork, Samuel, Warren, Mankins, Seymour, Mayo and some more that are possible all time greats(besides Warren and probably Samuel) I don't see how we can tell if we drafted better or worse since he left... it seems we have some bitter people though

One every down player and two special teams players - Jerrod Mayo, Slater and Gostkowski are all that's left from 26 draft picks from 2006 to 2008. You need more than that to be competitive and is probably why BB & Cesario have been so willing to trade down to acquire more picks, they had ground to make up.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Re: OT: Scott Pioli

This is simply not not a fair assessment, IMO. Weis was fine as an O.C. last year. Romeo has been fine as a D.C. in K.C.. Romeo had good years and bad as a head coach in Cleveland, which isn't much different from most Cleveland coaches. Mangini was doing pretty well in NY until Favre got injured, and he then got thrown under the bus. McDaniels hasn't had a chance to O.C. elsewhere, but he was scapegoated in Denver, where the problem was/is the ownership.

McDaniels wasn't scapegoated, he did a bad job.

 

[andrewgarrr]

Knowshon Moreno
Robert Ayers
Alphonso Smith
Demaryius Thomas
Tim Tebow
Peyton Hillis
Jay Cutler
Tony Scheffler
Brandon Marshall

I don't think McDaniels is a bad football coach. He's one of the top play-callers and offensive coaches in the league. He's a terrible personnel decision maker.

 

[Lamanai]

at least for the 2007 draft, I think it was just an issue of that being an especially weak draft overall. Not many teams can claim that was especially strong deft for their team. Consider that the Pats had no 2nd or 3rd. Including Merriweather, the following players were drafted after him in the 1st:

24 New England Patriots Brandon Meriweather DB Miami (Fla.)
25 Carolina Panthers Jon Beason MLB Miami (Fla.)
26 Dallas Cowboys Anthony Spencer OLB Purdue
27 New Orleans Saints Robert Meachem WR Tennessee
28 San Francisco 49ers Joe Staley OT Central Michigan
29 Baltimore Ravens Ben Grubbs G Auburn
30 San Diego Chargers Craig Davis WR Louisiana State
31 Chicago Bears Greg Olsen TE Miami (Fla.)
32 Indianapolis Colts Anthony Gonzalez WR Ohio State

some decent players, but who on that list has been a real stud? ProBowlers?

in the later rounds, the Pats picks didn't pan out, but I really couldn't see many familiar names still on the board that they should have taken.

Just a really weak draft. Pats added Welker and Moss instead.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

at least for the 2007 draft, I think it was just an issue of that being an especially weak draft overall. Not many teams can claim that was especially strong deft for their team. Consider that the Pats had no 2nd or 3rd. Including Merriweather, the following players were drafted after him in the 1st:

24 New England Patriots Brandon Meriweather DB Miami (Fla.)
25 Carolina Panthers Jon Beason MLB Miami (Fla.)
26 Dallas Cowboys Anthony Spencer OLB Purdue
27 New Orleans Saints Robert Meachem WR Tennessee
28 San Francisco 49ers Joe Staley OT Central Michigan
29 Baltimore Ravens Ben Grubbs G Auburn
30 San Diego Chargers Craig Davis WR Louisiana State
31 Chicago Bears Greg Olsen TE Miami (Fla.)
32 Indianapolis Colts Anthony Gonzalez WR Ohio State



some decent players, but who on that list has been a real stud? ProBowlers?

in the later rounds, the Pats picks didn't pan out, but I really couldn't see many familiar names still on the board that they should have taken.

Just a really weak draft. Pats added Welker and Moss instead.

Some good 2nd round talent, it's not as weak as some believe it is. Decent NFL talent through the 5th round.

34 Paul Poszlusny
37 Eric Weddle
38 Zach Miller
44 Sidney Rice
46 Lamar Woodley
47 David Harris
51 Steve Smith
59 Ryan Kalil
83 Charles Johnson
87 Stewart Bradley

 

[patchick]

Some good 2nd round talent, it's not as weak as some believe it is. Decent NFL talent through the 5th round.

34 Paul Poszlusny
37 Eric Weddle
38 Zach Miller
44 Sidney Rice
46 Lamar Woodley
47 David Harris
51 Steve Smith
59 Ryan Kalil
83 Charles Johnson
87 Stewart Bradley

The high end was lacking, but there were some good players amidst the dross. Pittsburgh was the huge winner of that draft.

As for the Pats, the picks they made were clearly lousy. The picks they didn't make, though, were outstanding, including Welker, Moss and Mayo. So a mixed bag overall.