Manny Lawson

[PatsChamp88]

Any thoughts?

 

[NEPatriot]

I like him and think he'd be a good fit. He's a little thin, however I think he's athletic and BB would find a way to use him well in our scheme. He's my second choice behind Kiwanuka (assuming he checks out medically). I'm just hoping we're not signing Roth and then expecting him to be anything more than what we already have. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[jmt57]

As I recall a lot of people here were hoping the Pats would draft Lawson five years ago; I'm sure he still has his share of supporters here.

His stats aren't all that impressive, but sack totals can be very deceiving. From what I have read for whatever reason SF used him on 1st and 2nd downs, then replaced him on 3rd down. Were they not utilizing him correctly, or does he lack pass rushing skills?

The other question would be what his price will be. My first thought when I saw the title of the thread was that if Lawson was signed it could be offset in part by letting TBC go; he's due a $2.3 million salary and will take up $4.5 million in cap space; releasing him saves $1.9 million in cap space. However, if Lawson's strengths are against the run and in pass coverage but not in the pass rush, then acquiring him and letting TBC go doesn't make much sense.

Of course it is a different system, but at least he is used to playing in a 3-4, which would help his learning curve. Whether or not Lawson is the best value option in free agency at OLB, I'm not so sure. It really comes down to how much he is going to cost, compared to other potential OLBs.

 

[Defsoul]

Well, he is good against the run and he can cover, but he's not really a pass rushing threat. Sounds like an ideal fit for Belichick's defense.

 

[IllegalContact]

if it comes to getting an OLB via FA, there's wimbley, and then everyone else........

lawson, kiwanuka, etc........have not shown the ability to play full time and I don't think these guys will present an upgrade over who we already have......

wimbley is a 3 down guy who pressures and covers.......I'd see him as the steadiest option to bring in......

 

[Defsoul]

Wimbley was franchised by the Raiders and signed his tender. He won't hit the market. Teams won't even be able to make an offer for him, since the Raiders made him an exclusive franchise player.

 

[IllegalContact]

Wimbley was franchised by the Raiders and signed his tender. He won't hit the market. Teams won't even be able to make an offer for him, since the Raiders made him an exclusive franchise player.

I wasn't sure if he signed.......outside of the cowboys, the raiders stand to be in the worst cap shape in the NFL once the new CBA takes hold......wimbley's contract is going to have to be dealt with.

pipe dream, no doubt......but the rest don't really offer much in terms of improvement over what we already have

 

[NEPatriot]

if it comes to getting an OLB via FA, there's wimbley, and then everyone else........

lawson, kiwanuka, etc........have not shown the ability to play full time and I don't think these guys will present an upgrade over who we already have......

wimbley is a 3 down guy who pressures and covers.......I'd see him as the steadiest option to bring in......

I think that both Lawson and Kiwanuka will be able to bring pressure, espeicially Kiwanuka. I disagree on them not being an upgrade over what we have. While Wimbley had a good, to quite good year last year, it was really the first time he's flashed. He also had the rep coming out of college as not being able to handle complex systems. As has been noted, he's franchised. Most likely, the Pats aren't going to offer top dollar for a FA.

 

[HomerSchooled]

Don't really think we need him. He's a great role player, and quite versatile, but I think we need a genuine threat sort of guy. I think he'll probably end up getting overpaid, too.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Jason Babin. 12.5 sacks last year, OLB experience, and all the quickness and measurables you could ask for. He's a veteran flying under the radar, and I think he could be had for something like 7-8 million per year because of his age (31) and lack of sustained success. I think he's the only reasonable guy on the market who can provide a genuine upgrade rushing the passer in the 3-4, even if only for a few years.

 

[Urgent]

On Lawson:

Terrific speed at OLB. Great coverage.
With the focus on lack of pressure, also recognize that the 2010 Pats LB corps really struggled in coverage.
Lawson would instantly upgrade LB coverage.

He seemed to be improving at 3-4 OLB. Since the 49ers drafted Aldon Smith, I assume they won't be that hot on bringing him back. He could be one of those guys that spent several years picking up the 3-4, and could contribute.

While he would be the tallest Pats OLB if they grabbed him, he would also be the lightest. Yes, he has experience on early downs. But does he fit the Pats OLB edge-setting prototype?

His pass rushing is a question. He wasn't used a lot. When he did rush, I saw a stat that put him in the top 10 or so of LB's in effectiveness at getting to the QB (one of those sack-hit-pressure analyses one takes with a grain of salt).

Under any scenario, I think he would be a great complement, if not a big upgrade. His speed and versatility would be valued.

He is sort of the opposite of the third-down pass rusher many want. There you are looking at Charles Johnson, Ray Edwards, or Jason Babin.

Yes, I was one hoping, hoping, hoping for Lawson when the Pats drafted Maroney. I believe he was selected one pick later.

 

[Urgent]

And on other LB's, I am intrigued by Cliff Avril.
He is a better fit in terms of size.
He is a year younger, and was maybe under the radar because the was previously restricted but would presumably by unrestricted under the new CBA.

He has more size than Lawson - might play the edge better.
He has a lot more sacks than Lawson.
Very good in coverage.
He still has great speed - would be far and away the fastest Pats OLB.

I think he could play three downs.
Downside - no 3-4 OLB experience that I know of. Might take transition time.

 

[IllegalContact]

And on other LB's, I am intrigued by Cliff Avril.
He is a better fit in terms of size.
He is a year younger, and was maybe under the radar because the was previously restricted but would presumably by unrestricted under the new CBA.

He has more size than Lawson - might play the edge better.
He has a lot more sacks than Lawson.
Very good in coverage.
He still has great speed - would be far and away the fastest Pats OLB.

I think he could play three downs.
Downside - no 3-4 OLB experience that I know of. Might take transition time.

I think he's an RFA.....not sure how he's tendered, but he might be worth giving up a later pick for given the pats already have 2 1's and 2 2's next year

 

[mrscruff]

A number of posters have expressed doubt regarding Manny Lawson's ability to set the edge. Against the run he did well enough to be ranked by football outsiders as their #1 OLB run defender in 2009. He was also #7 against the pass.
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Manny Lawson

Apparently he gained weight last year but did not have the type of performance many expected of him.

Ironically, I think he could improve the 3rd down defense because of his pass coverage skills if not his pass rush. If you can match up 1 on 1 against a TE (often a major target on 3rd downs in the pass game) that could leave others on defense to attack particularly through the middle. If coverage gets better and takes away the QB's primary reads, this can only aid the pass rush.

He played under Mike Nolan in a 3-4 scheme which had elements of a 4-3 so he has a little scheme versatility as well which Bill seems to value more than most.

There is a lot to like about Manny Lawson especially the 2009 version. I think his versatility is his most valuable asset but at what price?

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

I have always like Manny Lawson, so I'd be happy if the Pats took a shot on him.

Like many others said, I wanted him over Maroney in 06 Draft, but he's been somewhat of a disappointment as well. He's not the Ware/Merriman/Woodley/Orakpo that we've all been longing for, but he could help us.

I'd love to see Ray Edwards @ OLB/sub DE or Barry Cofield @ DE/sub DT, but both are probably too rich for the Pats' blood.