Stevan Ridley

[TealSox]

Ryan Mallett is a QB. QB is...uh..not a need for New England (3rd string QB?????? C'mon). Brady will still be playing when Mallett's first contract ends.

A lot of assumptions have been made about what the Patriots plan to do with Ryan Mallett. Do they groom him and trade him down the road? Is he the heir apparent in New England? And while we don't live in the head of Bill Belichick and we can't know for sure what will happen with Mallett, we know that Brian Hoyer is soon to be a free agent and ever team needs a back up.

I'm not delusional to the idea that Hoyer has any trade value and he surely isn't going anything in 2011 when his value as a back up to Brady is key - allowing Mallett one year to groom for the back up position. I've seen less talented and more overpaid back ups in the NFL, so I have no issues with pick.

And no, Mallett can't rush the passer.

 

[Oswlek]

A lot of assumptions have been made about what the Patriots plan to do with Ryan Mallett. Do they groom him and trade him down the road? Is he the heir apparent in New England? And while we don't live in the head of Bill Belichick and we can't know for sure what will happen with Mallett, we know that Brian Hoyer is soon to be a free agent and ever team needs a back up.

I'm not delusional to the idea that Hoyer has any trade value and he surely isn't going anything in 2011 when his value as a back up to Brady is key - allowing Mallett one year to groom for the back up position. I've seen less talented and more overpaid back ups in the NFL, so I have no issues with pick.

And no, Mallett can't rush the passer.

That is a good point. It may be a while before Mallett has any value, but his arrival gives NE options with what to do with Brian. While I think the "Hoyer for a 2nd rounder" comments are outrageous, a solid preseason (assuming there is one) could make him worth a 4th, IMO.

 

[Oswlek]

Ok....Jared Veldheer? He was pretty much the 2010 version of Vollmer.

I don't recall the Vollmer-esque confusion with his selection, but I'll take your word for it.

Again, the remarkably reach-y opening to the 2009 draft + JaMarcus Russell + 6 straight 5 wins or less seasons = it is easy to explain people mocking the Raiders.

 

[NFLroughdraft]

I don't recall the Vollmer-esque confusion with his selection, but I'll take your word for it.

Again, the remarkably reach-y opening to the 2009 draft + JaMarcus Russell + 6 straight 5 wins or less seasons = it is easy to explain people mocking the Raiders.

Right. Well let's be honest. The difference between the two teams is one had the best QB in NFL history fall out of the sky and the other drafted the biggest bust in NFL history (even though nobody...including me...had a problem with that pick at the time). And........of course...........a certain call which completely reversed the fortunes of each team.

 

[Off The Grid]

Right. Well let's be honest. The difference between the two teams is one had the best QB in NFL history fall out of the sky and the other drafted the biggest bust in NFL history (even though nobody...including me...had a problem with that pick at the time). And........of course...........a certain call which completely reversed the fortunes of each team.

WOW.

That might very well be the STUPIDEST thing that anyone's ever posted since the DAWN of the INTERNET.

 

[MaineMan]

1) He wasn't mentioned in the media as being a top 100 pick. But like I said, that's where I had him. Go check my record over at The Huddle Report.

2) You want to talk about the talent pool? Then you should have drafted Cam Jordan or one of the other defensive ends. The Vereen/Ridley picks certainly weren't the best "values" at their draft spots. How about taking a receiver with one of those picks (Hankerson, Jernigan, Gates, Cobb)?

3) Marcus Cannon is unfortunately an unknown. There is no way you can pencil him in as filling a need right now. Ryan Mallett is a QB. QB is...uh..not a need for New England (3rd string QB?????? C'mon). Brady will still be playing when Mallett's first contract ends.

Commonly made, but this is a HUGE assumption. Really it's TWO assumptions:

1) That Brady will still be playing at all in 2014.
2) That Brady will still be playing for the Pats in 2014.

 

[Oswlek]

Right. Well let's be honest. The difference between the two teams is one had the best QB in NFL history fall out of the sky and the other drafted the biggest bust in NFL history (even though nobody...including me...had a problem with that pick at the time). And........of course...........a certain call which completely reversed the fortunes of each team.

I'll grant you Brady, but Oaklands streak of sucking starting 5 years before the Russell era. (BTW, every single person I respected knew Russell would suck. Every. Single. One.)

And how did that call reverse Oakland's fortune when they ended up in the superbowl the following season?

Sorry, you lost me on that post...

 

[NFLroughdraft]

I'll grant you Brady, but Oaklands streak of sucking starting 5 years before the Russell era. (BTW, every single person I respected knew Russell would suck. Every. Single. One.)

And how did that call reverse Oakland's fortune when they ended up in the superbowl the following season?

Sorry, you lost me on that post...

Why did they lose the Super Bowl the following year?

 

[NFLroughdraft]

Commonly made, but this is a HUGE assumption. Really it's TWO assumptions:

1) That Brady will still be playing at all in 2014.
2) That Brady will still be playing for the Pats in 2014.

Those are two HUGE assumptions??????????

 

[NFLroughdraft]

WOW.

That might very well be the STUPIDEST thing that anyone's ever posted since the DAWN of the INTERNET.

Really? What part of that is inaccurate? Where were the Patriots before Brady got there?

 

[patsfaninpa]

Really? What part of that is inaccurate? Where were the Patriots before Brady got there?

I love Raiders fans who act like the Snow/Tuck Bowl was the Super Bowl. You would have had to travel cross-country and win in Pittsburgh. And, then with one weeks rest stop the greatest show on turf. I'm sure all of that would have happened if not for one call. And, Oakland would still be ruling the NFL. Just like they always did. Well, except for that stretch from 1983-2001...LOL....Raider Fans=Haters!!

 

[Off The Grid]

Right. Well let's be honest. The difference between the two teams is one had the best QB in NFL history fall out of the sky and the other drafted the biggest bust in NFL history (even though nobody...including me...had a problem with that pick at the time). And........of course...........a certain call which completely reversed the fortunes of each team.

WOW.

That might very well be the STUPIDEST thing that anyone's ever posted since the DAWN of the INTERNET.

Really? What part of that is inaccurate?

ALL of it.

1 ~ "The difference between the two teams is one had the best QB in NFL history fall out of the sky and the other drafted the biggest bust in NFL history..."

The Raiders sucked for YEARS before Russell. That's HOW you get the #1 Pick, bub.

And you evidently missed it: We've got a pretty good Coach: 11-5 under an utterly inexperienced Matt Cassell, thrown into the fire in Week 1. Apparently that escaped your notice.

Also, there's a certain matter of 51 other players, and the fact that this is a TEAM sport.

And I do believe that Coach Bill CHOSE Tom Brady.

Yes, I'm almost certain of it.

2 ~ "the biggest bust in NFL history (even though nobody...including me...had a problem with that pick at the time)."

Hah!! I didn't know one THOUSANDTH about the Draft that I do, today, and even I ~ and every soul with any understanding of Character ~ saw the Russell Bust coming A MILE AWAY!!

Seriously, dude: That was one of the EASIEST calls in recent times!!

3 ~ "And........of course...........a certain call which completely reversed the fortunes of each team."

You mean the CORRECT call??

Unlike ~ say ~ the BEN DREITH Call???

You mean the fortunes of the Patriots, whose superiority over the Raiders was CONFIRMED by that victory???

You mean the fortunes of the RAIDERS...who went to the SUPER BOWL the next year???

The Raiders suck because the Raiders SUCK.

Even the most UNFATHOMABLY stupid Raider fan doesn't need THAT explained to'm.

And ~ News Flash!! ~ the Patriots ROCK...because the Patriots are incredibly well led, brilliantly coached, and have generally been a band of dedicated, passionate professionals with the Hearts of LIONS.

NOT because of one single CORRECT call.

It is AMAZING that I have to explain that to anyone.

 

[Shelterdog]

1) He wasn't mentioned in the media as being a top 100 pick. But like I said, that's where I had him. Go check my record over at The Huddle Report.


I don't remember exactly where I had him. He was definitely in the top 3 rounds though. Vollmer was a really good prospect. Everyone knew he had a high ceiling and that he was just inexperienced.

I wouldn't come on here and just lie for no reason. I've been wrong before too, but I'm not too bad at figuring out value.

I think you're probably a victim of the egocentric bias (i.e., I'm not sure were I had Vollmer, I'm too lazy it up, but I'm sure it was high because I'm so darn good at this) and the hindsight bias (we all knew Vollmer had the physical skills to be awesome so I'm not surprised he's awesome--well lots of players have the talent to be awesome, the challenge is figuring out which guy is 60 and which guy is 97).

BB doesn't follow your value board. It doesn't mean he's a bad drafter.

 

[Oswlek]

Why did they lose the Super Bowl the following year?

What does that have to do with anything?

 

[NFLroughdraft]

ALL of it.

1 ~ "The difference between the two teams is one had the best QB in NFL history fall out of the sky and the other drafted the biggest bust in NFL history..."

The Raiders sucked for YEARS before Russell. That's HOW you get the #1 Pick, bub.

And you evidently missed it: We've got a pretty good Coach: 11-5 under an utterly inexperienced Matt Cassell, thrown into the fire in Week 1. Apparently that escaped your notice.

Also, there's a certain matter of 51 other players, and the fact that this is a TEAM sport.

And I do believe that Coach Bill CHOSE Tom Brady.

Yes, I'm almost certain of it.

2 ~ "the biggest bust in NFL history (even though nobody...including me...had a problem with that pick at the time)."

Hah!! I didn't know one THOUSANDTH about the Draft that I do, today, and even I ~ and every soul with any understanding of Character ~ saw the Russell Bust coming A MILE AWAY!!
Seriously, dude: That was one of the EASIEST calls in recent times!!

3 ~ "And........of course...........a certain call which completely reversed the fortunes of each team."

You mean the CORRECT call??

Unlike ~ say ~ the BEN DREITH Call???

You mean the fortunes of the Patriots, whose superiority over the Raiders was CONFIRMED by that victory???

You mean the fortunes of the RAIDERS...who went to the SUPER BOWL the next year???
The Raiders suck because the Raiders SUCK.

Even the most UNFATHOMABLY stupid Raider fan doesn't need THAT explained to'm.

And ~ News Flash!! ~ the Patriots ROCK...because the Patriots are incredibly well led, brilliantly coached, and have generally been a band of dedicated, passionate professionals with the Hearts of LIONS.

NOT because of one single CORRECT call.

It is AMAZING that I have to explain that to anyone.

Ok. You didn't make the playoffs with Matt Cassell.

It's a QB-driven league and your team never won a Super Bowl before Brady came along. The QB has a HUGE impact on the overall success of the team (especially when he's one of the two top QBs in NFL history).

That wasn't the correct call. BB and Tom Brady themselves wouldn't even say that it was ha.

Yes BB "chose" Brady, but there is no way he thought he'd develop into the QB he is now or he would have taken him MUCH earlier. So, sorry, there's an awful lot of luck that went into that.

You guys keep talking about how the Raiders went to the Super Bowl the year after. They lost because they still ran Gruden's offense. It was Gruden's team and they......ran into Gruden in the Super Bowl! Haven't you ever seen the NFL Films footage of John Lynch and everyone laughing on the Bucs sideline because they knew all of the Raiders' audibles? Well Gruden wouldn't have even been in Tampa if it weren't for that earthcrushing defeat against the Pats in the playoffs.

Meanwhile, that IS the night that the Patriots dynasty started.

I'm not a fan....I'm just telling you what the facts are.

You want to accuse me of using hindsight to my advantage because I had a 2nd-3rd round grade on Vollmer, but then you turn around and say it was easy to see Russell was going to be a bust? I wouldn't have drafted Russell if I were the Raiders (and that one is on record), but I don't remember ANYONE that didn't have a 1st round grade on that guy.

Lastly, what's with all this name-calling? How about being a grownup?

 

[NFLroughdraft]

What does that have to do with anything?

Gruden was traded to Tampa BECAUSE OF the Tuck Rule game. If he wins that game, he never leaves Oakland. The Raiders were still on course for a significant dropoff because of the age of their team. But, they wouldn't have run into Gruden in the Super Bowl the following year. The Tuck Rule was the turning point for both franchises.

 

[NFLroughdraft]

I think you're probably a victim of the egocentric bias (i.e., I'm not sure were I had Vollmer, I'm too lazy it up, but I'm sure it was high because I'm so darn good at this) and the hindsight bias (we all knew Vollmer had the physical skills to be awesome so I'm not surprised he's awesome--well lots of players have the talent to be awesome, the challenge is figuring out which guy is 60 and which guy is 97).

BB doesn't follow your value board. It doesn't mean he's a bad drafter.

Here I'll give you some of the worst calls I've ever made since you don't believe me. I didn't like Matt Ryan at all. I wouldn't have even drafted him in the first round. WRONG. I actually had Dennis Dixon as the top-rated QB in that draft. I had Brian Brohm ranked ahead of Joe Flacco. Not looking so good right now.

 

[Oswlek]

Wow, can you miss a point.

You guys keep talking about how the Raiders went to the Super Bowl the year after. They lost because they still ran Gruden's offense. It was Gruden's team and they......ran into Gruden in the Super Bowl! Haven't you ever seen the NFL Films footage of John Lynch and everyone laughing on the Bucs sideline because they knew all of the Raiders' audibles? Well Gruden wouldn't have even been in Tampa if it weren't for that earthcrushing defeat against the Pats in the playoffs.

Who decided to trade Gruden away that offseason? Who chose the new coach?

NE has had a few "earthcrushing defeats" in the past couple years yet I don't see Kraft shoving Belichick out the door.

But more importantly, why does a team good enough to make it to the superbowl fall off the cliff and not win 6 games again for 7 consecutive seasons?

The Raiders sucked because Al Davis ran a discombobulated organization filled with incompetent coaches and incapable players.

 

[NFLroughdraft]

Wow, can you miss a point.



Who decided to trade Gruden away that offseason? Who chose the new coach?

NE has had a few "earthcrushing defeats" in the past couple years yet I don't see Kraft shoving Belichick out the door.

But more importantly, why does a team good enough to make it to the superbowl fall off the cliff and not win 6 games again for 7 consecutive seasons?

The Raiders sucked because Al Davis ran a discombobulated organization filled with incompetent coaches and incapable players.

Huh? I said that the Tuck Rule was the turning point for both organizations. It was. It doesn't matter who's at fault. It was the turning point for both organizations.

Trading Gruden away was a huge mistake (although 2 1sts and 2 2nds didn't seem like that bad of a haul at the time). Kraft would be pretty dumb to get rid of Belichick after 3 Super Bowls. If that call didn't get reversed though, can you say for certain that he wouldn't have dumped him after the following season?

To answer your other question, the Raiders fell off because their team was reeeeeaaaaaaallllllly old. They would have been bad for a couple of years regardless of who was coaching them. Still, it doesn't change the fact that THAT GAME was the turning point for both franchises.

 

[Oswlek]

Huh? I said that the Tuck Rule was the turning point for both organizations. It was. It doesn't matter who's at fault. It was the turning point for both organizations.

Trading Gruden away was a huge mistake (although 2 1sts and 2 2nds didn't seem like that bad of a haul at the time). Kraft would be pretty dumb to get rid of Belichick after 3 Super Bowls. If that call didn't get reversed though, can you say for certain that he wouldn't have dumped him after the following season?

To answer your other question, the Raiders fell off because their team was reeeeeaaaaaaallllllly old. They would have been bad for a couple of years regardless of who was coaching them. Still, it doesn't change the fact that THAT GAME was the turning point for both franchises.

But it is only "the turning point" because Davis is an impatient jackass, which goes against your ealier claim that Davis is a better drafter and GM than people give him credit for. That's why we went down this path, after all.