CBS Judge: Patriots draft needs-From 14-2 To deceptively needy

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Patriots draft needs: From 14-2 to deceptively needy - NFL - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

 

[supafly]

To be honest, I really feel as though his assessment was pretty spot on.

There are some holes to fill, just like any other team. It only seems like bigger news b/c it's about a team that went 14-2. In all actuality, it's nothing that we haven't realized here, or talked about a lot of times.

It does add the notion that we also need some help on the offensive side of the ball, if we are going to continue to utilize our weapons correctly, and put up a high points average. I think the majority of posters here are simply focusing on defense alone (besides OL).

 

[Husse]

To be honest, I really feel as though his assessment was pretty spot on.

There are some holes to fill, just like any other team. It only seems like bigger news b/c it's about a team that went 14-2. In all actuality, it's nothing that we haven't realized here, or talked about a lot of times.

It does add the notion that we also need some help on the offensive side of the ball, if we are going to continue to utilize our weapons correctly, and put up a high points average. I think the majority of posters here are simply focusing on defense alone (besides OL).

No doubt we have problems on both sides of the ball. It's like with most people (me included), everyone likes a great offense but loves a great defense.

 

[DarrylS]

Pretty good assessment, with this draft can fill a few of these holes.

Pretty confident, that if you could do an objective assessment for each team in the NFL.. the Pats will still be in the top 5.

 

[MaineMan]

Better than most on several points than most analysts. E.g., he DOES acknowledge that the Pats pass-catching corps was weak "outside the numbers" as well as vertically, which is the first I've seen from any analyst. He arrives at (IMO) the correct conclusion about RB, though without really explaining the mechanics of why BGE and Woody are insufficient.

He's also the first analyst I've seen to acknowledge how poor the D-line was against the run and how important that flaw became against the Jets in the playoff game.

OTOH, his statement about OLB, "... pressure is supposed to come from here" doesn't really fit how BB's 34 is designed which leads him to compare a young Ninkovich to a mature Vrabel without understanding that Ninkovich is starting from almost exactly the same place that Vrabel did and that Vrabel developed into a solid OLB and a threat. And, of course, that leads him to the common conclusion (erroneous, IMO) tha the Pats will draft a "pass-rushing OLB" early.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Poor Crumpler's blocking was of no apparent value too - I guess the production of B-Jeepers and Woody happened in a vacuum.

 

[MaineMan]

Poor Crumpler's blocking was of no apparent value too - I guess the production of B-Jeepers and Woody happened in a vacuum.

According to most analysts, RB production in the NFL always happens in a vacuum. Surprised you didn't know that.

 

[reflexblue]

"There's too much dependence on Tom Brady, so that when he's not Tom Terrific everyone suffers. "....I feel the same way, they need to get back to not putting the game entirely on TB.

 

[WhiZa]

"There's too much dependence on Tom Brady, so that when he's not Tom Terrific everyone suffers. "....I feel the same way, they need to get back to not putting the game entirely on TB.

Any opinion on how to do that? In Brady's earlier years it was the veteran team defense that carried some games, but it's difficult to say having this guy or that guy in the draft will take the pressure off Brady.

 

[reflexblue]

Any opinion on how to do that? In Brady's earlier years it was the veteran team defense that carried some games, but it's difficult to say having this guy or that guy in the draft will take the pressure off Brady.

Defense, in TB's early days, the SB days, the Defense pretty much made it possible to just take what the opposing team gave. The Pats didn't try to win on offense as much as defense. That being said i also think the O-line needs an up grade especially the interior of the line. When Brady has gotten in trouble its usually pressure up the middle. I remember Parcells saying that he'd rather have a great line an average RB's and WR's then great WR's and RB's and an Average line

 

[Seneschal2]

Any opinion on how to do that? In Brady's earlier years it was the veteran team defense that carried some games, but it's difficult to say having this guy or that guy in the draft will take the pressure off Brady.

Currently, teams can gameplan vs Brady and the short zone passing game, which happens to be the strength of the entire offense. Evaluate the personnel at RB and at WR . Determine if an upgrade at WR (intermediate/deep route runners only), and an upgrade from BJGE (or complement to) can take the heat off of Brady and the short zone game -- now explore your options.

Dissect the OL completely. From a performance perspective, evaluate the starters and reserves. Factor in all contractual/age considerations -- now explore your options.

On D, improve both the run and pass defense -- they feed off of each other. Address the pass rush void by exploring all avenues necessary to disrupt the timing of an offense. DE/DT/OLB/DB can be upgraded to attain that goal.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Better than most on several points than most analysts. E.g., he DOES acknowledge that the Pats pass-catching corps was weak "outside the numbers" as well as vertically, which is the first I've seen from any analyst. He arrives at (IMO) the correct conclusion about RB, though without really explaining the mechanics of why BGE and Woody are insufficient.

He's also the first analyst I've seen to acknowledge how poor the D-line was against the run and how important that flaw became against the Jets in the playoff game.

OTOH, his statement about OLB, "... pressure is supposed to come from here" doesn't really fit how BB's 34 is designed which leads him to compare a young Ninkovich to a mature Vrabel without understanding that Ninkovich is starting from almost exactly the same place that Vrabel did and that Vrabel developed into a solid OLB and a threat. And, of course, that leads him to the common conclusion (erroneous, IMO) tha the Pats will draft a "pass-rushing OLB" early.

I've seen this Ninkovich/Vrabel comparison a lot lately and I have to say that I don't see it at all. I saw Vrabel as a talented player stuck behind other talented players in Pitt and Ninkovich as an average to below average player that was released three times before he got picked up by the Pats. Because neither did much their first four years does not mean they will have the same career arc anymore than them both being white and wearing the same #50.
There are hundreds of examples of LB's who had similar numbers to start their careers and most of them were out of the league by years 5,6 and 7. I see Ninkovich as a decent player who provides good depth as a 4th or 5th OLB but in no way should he be considered a starting caliber LB.

 

[MaineMan]

I've seen this Ninkovich/Vrabel comparison a lot lately and I have to say that I don't see it at all. I saw Vrabel as a talented player stuck behind other talented players in Pitt and Ninkovich as an average to below average player that was released three times before he got picked up by the Pats. Because neither did much their first four years does not mean they will have the same career arc anymore than them both being white and wearing the same #50.
There are hundreds of examples of LB's who had similar numbers to start their careers and most of them were out of the league by years 5,6 and 7. I see Ninkovich as a decent player who provides good depth as a 4th or 5th OLB but in no way should he be considered a starting caliber LB.

I don't see much difference in the development potential between Vrabel of 2001 and Ninkovich of 2010.

Vrabel had some pretty decent experience as a sub-rusher/reserve for four years in PIT's 3-4 before joining a defense of accomplished veterans with the Pats.

Ninkovich languished behind a couple talented DEs (Grant, Smith) his rookie season in the Saints' 4-3 (along with Eric Moore, coincidentally). Then he got stuck behind Jason Taylor and Matt Roth/Vonnie Holliday in Miami's 4-3. Then Parcells ignored him when switching MIA to the 3-4 and he just hung on back at NOL until the Pats picked him up. So, really, Ninkovich's 2009 as a part-time OLB/sub-rusher with the Pats was his only previous experience in a 3-4. And yet, he put up numbers in 2010 that matched Vrabel's from 2001 while playing on a very young Pats defense and in conjunction with the worst Pats DL in BB's tenure. I saw quite a few mistakes but also some significant improvement in some areas under difficult circumstances and I'd really like to see how he does playing alongside a higher-quality 30-front before rejecting him out of hand as not being starter material.

I'm not saying that Ninkovich absolutely WILL follow Vrabel's development path, but I've yet to see anything from him that guarantees he won't.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

I don't see much difference in the development potential between Vrabel of 2001 and Ninkovich of 2010.

Vrabel had some pretty decent experience as a sub-rusher/reserve for four years in PIT's 3-4 before joining a defense of accomplished veterans with the Pats.

Ninkovich languished behind a couple talented DEs (Grant, Smith) his rookie season in the Saints' 4-3 (along with Eric Moore, coincidentally). Then he got stuck behind Jason Taylor and Matt Roth/Vonnie Holliday in Miami's 4-3. Then Parcells ignored him when switching MIA to the 3-4 and he just hung on back at NOL until the Pats picked him up. So, really, Ninkovich's 2009 as a part-time OLB/sub-rusher with the Pats was his only previous experience in a 3-4. And yet, he put up numbers in 2010 that matched Vrabel's from 2001 while playing on a very young Pats defense and in conjunction with the worst Pats DL in BB's tenure. I saw quite a few mistakes but also some significant improvement in some areas under difficult circumstances and I'd really like to see how he does playing alongside a higher-quality 30-front before rejecting him out of hand as not being starter material.

I'm not saying that Ninkovich absolutely WILL follow Vrabel's development path, but I've yet to see anything from him that guarantees he won't.

I hope you're right regarding Ninkovich. I'd be thrilled if he became anywhere near the player Vrabel was. Although I think what you saw out of him in 2010 is pretty much what you're going to get from him.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I'm not saying that Ninkovich absolutely WILL follow Vrabel's development path, but I've yet to see anything from him that guarantees he won't.

It would be even better if Ninkovich continued to be a backup and there was a more talented guy in front of him. He's going to be playing significant minutes even if we draft a rookie OLB however because the learning curve appears fairly steep in a BB defense. Any college player is a conversion project. That's why I'd heisitate to use an early 1st round pick on OLB. I think we can address the position in the mid 2nd or early 3rd.

Guys to look for - Sheard, Reed, Houston, and McPhee.

 

[MaineMan]

It would be even better if Ninkovich continued to be a backup and there was a more talented guy in front of him. He's going to be playing significant minutes even if we draft a rookie OLB however because the learning curve appears fairly steep in a BB defense. Any college player is a conversion project. That's why I'd heisitate to use an early 1st round pick on OLB. I think we can address the position in the mid 2nd or early 3rd.

Guys to look for - Sheard, Reed, Houston, and McPhee.

Agree with your draft projections for an OLB pick. I'd add Acho to that list for late 2nd/early 3rd.

Not sure what you mean by "more talented than Ninkovich". In what particular respect?

 

[IllegalContact]

Any opinion on how to do that? In Brady's earlier years it was the veteran team defense that carried some games, but it's difficult to say having this guy or that guy in the draft will take the pressure off Brady.

upgrade RB......running out of the shotgun is lame, and when the opposing defense is playing run, then it doesn't work at all.

we need to add a battering ram to the 2 guys we already have......like leron mcclain or mike tolbert, have brady spend more time under center. maybe draft delone carter or some other bruiser

 

[DaBruinz]

The Pats need to add a DE who can help open up things for the OLBs. Just doing that would improve the OLB play.

On offense, the Pats need an upgrade over Connolly at guard. Whether they bring one in during Free Agency or Draft one. They need an upgrade there.

From a blocking standpoint, the Pats also need to make it so Koppen gets help against guys like Jenkins and Ngata and that the O-line is aware of the delayed blitz past Koppen.

Brady needs to get back into the mindset of hitting the open man. He missed so many during the play-off game that it was ridiculous. With the weapons the Pats have in the receiving corps, Brady should never have to throw into double/triple coverage.

We know the Pats are going to add a running back. What will be interesting is whether that RB will be someone who is developmental or someone who can come in and compete right away.

 

[Off The Grid]

I remember Parcells saying that he'd rather have a great line and average RB's and WR's than great WR's and RB's and an average line.

Couldn't've said it better.

That's the difference between competing for the PlayOffs...and competing for the Championship.

 

[Off The Grid]

I've seen this Ninkovich/Vrabel comparison a lot lately and I have to say that I don't see it at all. I saw Vrabel as a talented player stuck behind other talented players in Pitt and Ninkovich as an average to below average player that was released three times before he got picked up by the Pats. Because neither did much their first four years does not mean they will have the same career arc anymore than them both being white and wearing the same #50.
There are hundreds of examples of LB's who had similar numbers to start their careers and most of them were out of the league by years 5,6 and 7. I see Ninkovich as a decent player who provides good depth as a 4th or 5th OLB but in no way should he be considered a starting caliber LB.

I don't see much difference in the development potential between Vrabel of 2001 and Ninkovich of 2010.

Vrabel had some pretty decent experience as a sub-rusher/reserve for four years in PIT's 3-4 before joining a defense of accomplished veterans with the Pats.

Ninkovich languished behind a couple talented DEs (Grant, Smith) his rookie season in the Saints' 4-3 (along with Eric Moore, coincidentally). Then he got stuck behind Jason Taylor and Matt Roth/Vonnie Holliday in Miami's 4-3. Then Parcells ignored him when switching MIA to the 3-4 and he just hung on back at NOL until the Pats picked him up. So, really, Ninkovich's 2009 as a part-time OLB/sub-rusher with the Pats was his only previous experience in a 3-4. And yet, he put up numbers in 2010 that matched Vrabel's from 2001 while playing on a very young Pats defense and in conjunction with the worst Pats DL in BB's tenure. I saw quite a few mistakes but also some significant improvement in some areas under difficult circumstances and I'd really like to see how he does playing alongside a higher-quality 30-front before rejecting him out of hand as not being starter material.

I'm not saying that Ninkovich absolutely WILL follow Vrabel's development path, but I've yet to see anything from him that guarantees he won't.

What a great ~ and cordial ~ Argument, gents. I've been hoping somebody would come up with a well considered opposing view on Brother Maine's Vrabel ~ Ninkovich Corollary, and you did NOT disappoint, Brother Chair!!

I'd love to see us steal Matthias Kiwanuka from the Giants ~ or bring him back HOME, rather: Neither he nor Justin Tuck should've ever played elsewhere ~ and eventually displace Ninkovich to #4 on the Depth Chart, as I'd also love to see us haul in Greg Romeus and a few projects of mine...But I love Ninkovich, and I think he's a SCRAPPER with some actually athletic skills, one who is always going to make more big plays than most expect from him, even while playing a decidedly Belichickian assignment-driven Game.