Pats WR situation similar to Steelers

[Deus Irae]

Tate gets one year max. Three years in the system is enough.

He's a 1.5 year player who missed much of his last year in college. He's ahead of rookies and behind second year players. He's got 2 years left to show what he can do, assuming he continues to flash and keep his head on right.


That doesn't mean the Patriots should keep him as a top 3 WR by default, though.

 

[JackBauer]

Jack, how much more time do you want to give Brandon Tate, how about another year to see if he can cut it, how does that sound ?

Two years. That shouldn't preclude the Patriots from bringing a FA or two to camp; it depends a lot on the coaching staff's evaluation of Tate and Price's respective progress.

 

[Shelterdog]

You probably keep Tate through the end of his rookie deal (two more years); his contract is cheap, he's a decent return guy, you're going to keep five or six wideouts and you're probably not going to find five or six guys better than Tate.

He loses the "second outside receiver" job the second you have two better outside receivers. If Price develops and/or you pickup a nice free agent or rookie that could be this year.

 

[JackBauer]

The NFL is littered with star receivers who took a good three seasons to develop; unless there's something we don't know about Tate, there's no reason not to afford him the same opportunity.

 

[BPF]

Ward's also more of a downfield receiver than is Welker, which makes a difference when the rest of the group can't get deep separation.

Ward is one of the slowest WR's in the league, he is not a downfield threat in any manner compared to any WR currently in the league. If he were to go to the combine right now I'm sure many LBs would be a lot faster than he is now. I know that's an irrelevant comment in general but you need speed in the NFL in order to be a downfield threat. Bob Papa was actually talking about this with Ross Tucker this morning on Sirius. Before one of the games on NFL Network they were watching tape and couldn't believe how much speed he's lost. They actually talked to Ward about it at that time and he said to them they he makes his opponents play at his speed because otherwise he couldn't get open.

 

[UofApatsfan]

Jack, how much more time do you want to give Brandon Tate, how about another year to see if he can cut it, how does that sound ?

He gets another year largely because he's more or less a red shirt rookie.

 

[Deus Irae]

Ward is one of the slowest WR's in the league, he is not a downfield threat in any manner compared to any WR currently in the league. If he were to go to the combine right now I'm sure many LBs would be a lot faster than he is now. I know that's an irrelevant comment in general but you need speed in the NFL in order to be a downfield threat. Bob Papa was actually talking about this with Ross Tucker this morning on Sirius. Before one of the games on NFL Network they were watching tape and couldn't believe how much speed he's lost. They actually talked to Ward about it at that time and he said to them they he makes his opponents play at his speed because otherwise he couldn't get open.

Ward runs more deeper routes and has a greater YPC, which was my point. I'm not claiming that Ward's running Randy Moss routes.

 

[Potstickas]

I haven't seen any indication that Tate will become anything near a Wallace. Wallace even got drafted right after Tate, to think we could have had Wallace instead of Tate.

 

[The_Riddler]

I haven't seen any indication that Tate will become anything near a Wallace. Wallace even got drafted right after Tate, to think we could have had Wallace instead of Tate.

Not to mention BB took him knowing he had to sit a year to begin with

 

[RodThePat]

The Steelers Superbowl WR core seems similar to the Patriots situation.

You got the #1 go to guy in Hines ward/Wes Welker

You got the familar WR returning as depth in Randel El/Branch. (Except Branch became the #2 where he shouldnt belong)

You got the 2nd year "deep threat" WR in Tate/Wallace. Difference being Wallace is not a question mark.

Then you have the two young WRs with potential in Edelman/Price and Sanders/Brown.

If one of Sanders or Brown becomes good the Steelers will have one of the best (and deepest) WR cores in the league. So this made me think, is there even room for a pricy FA on the team? One of the pats young WRs would probably have to be cut.

Does anyone think the Pats should just let what they have battle it out for WR spot opposite of Welker like the Steelers did? All they need is one of Tate/Price/Edelman to establish themselves and you got a good trio of WRs with Branch being a good #3.

If third year Tate and Edelman, along with 2nd year Price cant become a solid #2 WR, then the pats should stop drafting wideouts.

Only Welker and Branch are sure things and one has already tore his ACL and the other gets constantly dinged up during the course of a season. Yeah, Tate, Edelman and Price have potential, but they could amount to nothing as well. It would be absolutely insane to go into the 2011 season without adding a veteran receiver to the mix.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

You have to say that at this point,Belichick has pretty much sucked at picking out WRs from the draft - probably his weakest flaw of the few that he has..Imagine if Chad Jackson or Bethel Johnson were the answer we probably would have had another ring by now.

...all the success he has had at the position came from FAs...you would have to go back to the Branch and Givens days to find a receiver from the draft that did not waste a roster spot or lasted much at all in NE.

Sooner or later odds are Belichick will find a down the field receiver in the draft that can be an instant playmaker and not a bust.... Brady hopes it won't be too long

 

[patsinthesnow]

Only Welker and Branch are sure things and one has already tore his ACL and the other gets constantly dinged up during the course of a season. Yeah, Tate, Edelman and Price have potential, but they could amount to nothing as well. It would be absolutely insane to go into the 2011 season without adding a veteran receiver to the mix.

See, I think you have to rely on the kids. There is 3 of them. One of them has to step up and become the #2 option. Say we add a FA, who do you cut?

Welker
Branch
FA
Price
Tate
Edelman

I doubt this team would carry 6 WRs, considering only 4 were active on gameday. (Slater was 5th WR/STer) Cutting Price, Tate, or Edelman would be foolish imo.

PATSFANINPA- BBs draft weakness has been drafting WRs up to this point. Let's hope one of the three becomes something. Picture if we got Collie or Wallace....

 

[Shelterdog]

PATSFANINPA- BBs draft weakness has been drafting WRs up to this point. Let's hope one of the three becomes something. Picture if we got Collie or Wallace....

You just can't tell if those guys would have done well here.

For example, Collie has had most of his success in the slot; who knows if he could play outside but in NE he wouldn't have been able to play the slot receiver because that's where Welker is.

Wallace has been great in Pittsburgh but has had some trouble with knowing where to be (look at the last two minutes of the superbowl). BB has next to no tolerance for that. Could they have coexisted?

 

[BPF]

Ward runs more deeper routes and has a greater YPC, which was my point. I'm not claiming that Ward's running Randy Moss routes.

No he runs the same basic routes as Welker.

 

[Deus Irae]

No he runs the same basic routes as Welker.

Believe what you want. Welker was #7 in the NFL in YAC, and averaged 4.779 YAC per to Ward's 4.254 YAC average, yet Welker still averaged almost 3 YPC less than Ward (12.8 to 9.9).


http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYardsAfterCatch/seasontype/2/league/afc

 

[VJCPatriot]

Seriously, Tate is the weakest link. He's the one WR who is in danger of losing his starting job next season. Maybe a true deep burner like Titus Young could fall to us in the 3rd round. That Vikings pick looks like the perfect place to take a wideout. Either that or #60. Pats have historically taken wideouts in round 2.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Seriously, Tate is the weakest link. He's the one WR who is in danger of losing his starting job next season. Maybe a true deep burner like Titus Young could fall to us in the 3rd round. That Vikings pick looks like the perfect place to take a wideout. Either that or #60. Pats have historically taken wideouts in round 2.

Memories of the V-Jak debacle keep coming into my head when anyone mentions round 2 receivers...stop it! :snob:

 

[BPF]

Believe what you want. Welker was #7 in the NFL in YAC, and averaged 4.779 YAC per to Ward's 4.254 YAC average, yet Welker still averaged almost 3 YPC less than Ward (12.8 to 9.9).


2010 NFL Player Receiving Stats - National Football League - ESPN

Welker was coming off a very serious knee injury, go back and track their career numbers. What I meant was the routes they run make the defense react in a similar manner. They both don't run clear out routes.

 

[Deus Irae]

Welker was coming off a very serious knee injury, go back and track their career numbers. What I meant was the routes they run make the defense react in a similar manner. They both don't run clear out routes.

Welker's career YPC is 10.7, and he's been over 11 only once in his career, even with all the YAC he gets (Career YAC 5.7). Ward's career YPC is 12.3 and he's been over 11 ten times in 13 seasons (career YAC 4.4). So, Welker averages catching the ball 5.3 yards downfield, while Ward averages catching the ball 7.9 yards downfield.*

Or, as I said....

"Ward runs more deeper routes. I'm not claiming that Ward's running Randy Moss routes. "

You were wrong with your response, and the data demonstrates that. Let's just leave this be.




*Both Career YAC numbers come from Yahoo!

 

[BPF]

Welker's career YPC is 10.7, and he's been over 11 only once in his career, even with all the YAC he gets (Career YAC 5.7). Ward's career YPC is 12.3 and he's been over 11 ten times in 13 seasons (career YAC 4.4). So, Welker averages catching the ball 5.3 yards downfield, while Ward averages catching the ball 7.9 yards downfield.*

Or, as I said....

"Ward runs more deeper routes. I'm not claiming that Ward's running Randy Moss routes. "

You were wrong with your response, and the data demonstrates that. Let's just leave this be.



*Both Career YAC numbers come from Yahoo!

You were implying that Ward makes a defense react in a different way and thus complements his teamates at WR better. Not true. Ward, like Welker, is not a physically dominating presence and like Welker is a great route-runner identifying and manipulating coverages. Both are great 3rd down targets and all around WR's and both are not speed demons.