Another "gem" from MarinePhinFan:
""Old-Timers"? lol...Archie was a great QB. And he most certainly should be mentioned along side the top 20-25 greatest to have ever played the game. The only difference between him and Steve Young is that Young was lucky enough to be traded to the 49ers so he could get those "wins". Manning played for some of the worst teams in NFL history. His 35-101 record as a starting QB shouldn't diminish his greatness. Has it though? Yes. Only because a lot of people mistakenly put TEAM accomplishments squarely on all QB's shoulders. Whether it be win or lose the QB gets the blame 90% of the time. Like in my 500yard, 7 TD, 0 INT game. That would go down as a loss for the QB and his team.
I disagree with your wins opinion. Ken Anderson is a top 20, maybe even a top 10 all time great and he has 10 more wins than losses.
Bringing up Super Bowls as a major factor in greatness will cause someone to believe that Trent Dilfer and Doug Williams were better QB's than Dan Marino. When mediocre QB's play on great teams they win games.
I think I may have posted this before, but I will again for those who may have missed it. At pro-football-reference.com they have taken the liberty to compile all records and stats from all QB's since about 1950. I would have liked them to go back further, but hey, beggars can't be choosy. Anyhow, their method factors in EVERYTHING from individual stats to career longevity to championships to wins. They do weigh more heavily the individual stats, as they should, but they do include wins and such. Also, they do take into account each QB's era.
They then compare all QB's to each other and determine which QB's were similar over their entire career. For example, in Brady's 2007 year he had ONE season like the greats have had. However, in his entire career, and as of now, he compares to the following QB's:
Drew Brees, Roger Staubach*, Trent Green, Kurt Warner, Randall Cunningham, Donovan McNabb, Jeff Garcia, Rich Gannon, Mark Brunell, Bert Jones
Now, other than Staubach, Brees and Warner (the latter two may also make the HoF), Brady has a career similar to some pedestrian QB's with only one being a HoF'er. Game managing QB's who played on some pretty good teams. Wouldn't you agree?
Now, who does Marino compare to:
John Elway*, Fran Tarkenton*, Johnny Unitas*, Brett Favre, Joe Montana*, Ken Anderson, Warren Moon*, Dan Fouts*, Peyton Manning, Terry Bradshaw*
Other than Ken Anderson (who, in my opinion, should be in the HoF), Marino is compared to ONLY HoF QB's.
Also from this site they have a simpler method of determining who was the best. I won't go into their formula because it'd take me too long, but you can go there and read it if you like. They've labeled their method "AV" or Approximate Value. And it means exactly what it says, what is the apporximate value of this player when compared to his peers, not just his positional peers, but all players. 1 is the best.
Since 1950 they have Brady ranked 100th. Now 100 is a very good number considering all the players who have played in the NFL since 1950.
However, Marino is ranked 7th.
P. Manning is ranked 5th.
Jerry Rice is ranked 1st."
Throughout the thread, this poster has used one site, pro-football-reference.com to back up his arguments. Call me crazy, but using one internet source to consolidate your opinion is akin to using play-DOH instead of mortar for your home's foundation. It just won't hold up.
