Defense/Belichick struggling with new/young QB's

[condon84]

Re: Are the Pats in trouble against a mistake free offense?

We were getting eaten alive on screens every time we kept blitzing aggressively.

No we weren't. I saw us play zone when those screens got us. Problem was, our LBs dropped back too far and let the OL set their blocks.

 

[TheRealMcCagh]

Re: What is up with the Pats defense and backup QB's

I think the reason back ups give us fits is there is not much film on them. BB and TB watch game films religiously, so with back up QB's their a little unsure what to expect come game time

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Are the Pats in trouble against a mistake free offense?

No we weren't. I saw us play zone when those screens got us. Problem was, our LBs dropped back too far and let the OL set their blocks.

We should agree to disagree until someone brings up video or something else as evidence. Everytime I saw us get burned by a screen, it happened when one of our OLB's were blitzing (with the exception of the screen the Ninkovich actually got blocked into).

 

[condon84]

Re: What is up with the Pats defense and backup QB's

I think the reason back ups give us fits is there is not much film on them. BB and TB watch game films religiously, so with back up QB's their a little unsure what to expect come game time

I don't buy this crap. It's not like an inexperienced QB is all of a sudden going to do something BB's never seen before and catch him totally off guard. We just play extremely safe and wait for the inexperience QB to make mistakes. Sometimes they do, but along the way, they get into a rhythm because we just don't have a consistent pass rush unless we blitz. Inexperienced or not, if there is no pressure, it's like playing 7 on 7 out there.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: What is up with the Pats defense and backup QB's

I don't buy this crap. It's not like an inexperienced QB is all of a sudden going to do something BB's never seen before and catch him totally off guard. We just play extremely safe and wait for the inexperience QB to make mistakes. Sometimes they do, but along the way, they get into a rhythm because we just don't have a consistent pass rush unless we blitz. Inexperienced or not, if there is no pressure, it's like playing 7 on 7 out there.

Danny Kannell, A.J. Feeley (x2), Kyle Boller, Matt Flynn. All back-up quarterbacks who have given us fits in the Bill Belichick era. Should we have defended them better? Absolutely. But it's not like the assertion that back-ups give us issues is without a foundation. It's certainly happened before, and to defenses that were some of the better defenses that we've fielded in Patriots history.

 

[condon84]

Re: Are the Pats in trouble against a mistake free offense?

We should agree to disagree until someone brings up video or something else as evidence. Everytime I saw us get burned by a screen, it happened when one of our OLB's were blitzing (with the exception of the screen the Ninkovich actually got blocked into).

That's fine.

Also, it's not like the screen was the main play that kept our defense on the field. It was a myriad of plays: slants, dumpoffs, intermediate passes, screens, and runs.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Are the Pats in trouble against a mistake free offense?

That's fine.

Also, it's not like the screen was the main play that kept our defense on the field. It was a myriad of plays: slants, dumpoffs, intermediate passes, screens, and runs.

The main thing that kept out defense on the field was the zone getting exploited by Flynn. That's something that has really happened time and time again this season. The bad run defense was also to blame (which can be attributed to the D-Line injuries going into the game).

 

[condon84]

Re: What is up with the Pats defense and backup QB's

Danny Kannell, A.J. Feeley (x2), Kyle Boller, Matt Flynn. All back-up quarterbacks who have given us fits in the Bill Belichick era. Should we have defended them better? Absolutely. But it's not like the assertion that back-ups give us issues is without a foundation. It's certainly happened before, and to defenses that were some of the better defenses that we've fielded in Patriots history.

I just think we play too vanilla against these types of QBs and wait for them to make a mistake.

It's frustrating to watch, especially when we see these QBs struggle when we do commit to play more aggressive. I know I'm not the only one asking why we weren't being more aggressive on that one long drive that GB had in the second half. It was only more obvious when the next drive they had, we did become more aggressive and got them off the field right away.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: What is up with the Pats defense and backup QB's

I just think we play too vanilla against these types of QBs and wait for them to make a mistake.

It's frustrating to watch, especially when we see these QBs struggle when we do commit to play more aggressive. I know I'm not the only one asking why we weren't being more aggressive on that one long drive that GB had in the second half. It was only more obvious when the next drive they had, we did become more aggressive and got them off the field right away.

Our blitzes were getting picked up and/or exploited many times throughout the game. Give Belichick credit for sticking to it even though that was happening (the last couple of plays of the game, for instance).

 

[Joker]

Re: What is up with the Pats defense and backup QB's

I just think we play too vanilla against these types of QBs and wait for them to make a mistake.

It's frustrating to watch, especially when we see these QBs struggle when we do commit to play more aggressive. I know I'm not the only one asking why we weren't being more aggressive on that one long drive that GB had in the second half. It was only more obvious when the next drive they had, we did become more aggressive and got them off the field right away.

I think the exact same thing...first time around,the Pats lay back and blitz rarely...it IS infuriating but it is what they do...the games against these players and the numbers don't lie

 

[Joker]

Re: What is up with the Pats defense and backup QB's

Our blitzes were getting picked up and/or exploited many times throughout the game. Give Belichick credit for sticking to it even though that was happening (the last couple of plays of the game, for instance).

Gotta disagree...I saw basic rush four there at the end..the last play was a three man rush

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: What is up with the Pats defense and backup QB's

Gotta disagree...I saw basic rush four there at the end..the last play was a three man rush

Wasn't talking about the last play of the game specifically. The last couple of plays saw a mix of a three to four man front and extra rushers being used. The point being that, even when we used extra rushers, it was still getting picked up and/or exploited.

 

[hambone1818]

It's been mentioned off and on for a few years now but it really seems like Belichick and the defense have a real tough time with younger QB's who they haven't faced before. We saw it against Bradford in the preseason and to a lesser degree against McCoy and the Browns, then of course last night. Going back to '09 there was Trent Edwards in week 1, Flacco laid down 264 and 2 TD's in week 4, Orton torched them in week 5 in his first appearance against them, and then Chad Henne with 335 yards and 2 TD's in week 13.

When thinking about this I go back to Ted Williams, who prepared endlessly to find weaknesses in pitchers and said that rookie/inexperienced pitchers gave him the most trouble because he just didn't have a book on them. Knowing how tirelessly Belichick works on exposing weaknesses and minimizing QB's strength's, how much do you feel this 'unseen QB' effect has on his preparation? With a defense that's still very much learning on the fly I think it's even more dramatic an effect because he has to cover up their weaknesses as well.

The positive in all this? The potential opposing QB's in the playoffs include Manning, Roethlisberger, Sanchez, Cassel, Rivers, Flacco and Garrard, all of whom Belichick and the Patriots have faced at least twice.

 

[Synovia]

It is my opinion that the Patriots do more film study/preplanning than any other team in the NFL, and that facing QBs who don't have any tape on them causes them to fall into some really conservative defenses.


It was really clear watching the game last night that Flynn can't handle pressure at all, and yet it took the Patriots 45 minutes to really figure that out.

I think the read-and-react defense that the patriots like to play allows young QB too much time to think, when usually the biggest issue with young QBs is that they can't make decisions fast enough.

 

[SVN]

every game is different. flynn hardly had 3 passes more than 10 yards. the problem was we couldnt stop the run. if we had our full Dline and put the packers in 3rd and long with blitzes who knows what could have happened. Iam personally taking this game with a grain of salt on the D because of the really depleted Dline.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: What is up with the Pats defense and backup QB's

It seems historically the Pats have had trouble with backup QBs. I don't get it?

Colt McCoy tore them up.

What ever that dudes name in Detriot did well.

Even through the years when the Pats had a great defense, backups always seemed to give them fits.

I remember a Monday night game against Denver 2003 or 2004 (the intentional safety game), but they had there backup in and the Pats needed the final minute before they came out on top.

I know there have been more, they just don't come to mind off the top of my head.

It's getting like I'm more scared of the backups then the main QB's.

Anyway, we need our DL back, BAD!!!!!!!!!

Mike Wright, we need you back something fearce. Myron Prior, Ron Brace, lets go guys!

Thats because fans expect young or backup QBs to go 4-32 with 3 Ints.
YOung and backup QBs can be effective. They can especially be effective TO AN EXTENT against a defense that is conservative like ours
However, if you look at the record, we lose to young or inexperienced QBs a lot less than anyone else does.
This is one of the differences between our D and an aggressive D, the kind people routinely clamor for.
An aggressive D will kill terrible teams. We beat them whether we kill them or not.
An aggressive D will not do as well against good teams.
If you want to win by more points against bad teams, but win less ofen against good teams, then you should continue to complain about the statistics that teams we beat accumulate during their loss.

 

[SpiderFox53]

Re: What is up with the Pats defense and backup QB's

Thats because fans expect young or backup QBs to go 4-32 with 3 Ints.
YOung and backup QBs can be effective. They can especially be effective TO AN EXTENT against a defense that is conservative like ours
However, if you look at the record, we lose to young or inexperienced QBs a lot less than anyone else does.
This is one of the differences between our D and an aggressive D, the kind people routinely clamor for.
An aggressive D will kill terrible teams. We beat them whether we kill them or not.
An aggressive D will not do as well against good teams.
If you want to win by more points against bad teams, but win less ofen against good teams, then you should continue to complain about the statistics that teams we beat accumulate during their loss.

Bravo, sir, bravo.

 

[IcyPatriot]

The way I see it is they are confused to begin with.

So Belichick tries to confuse them but they don't realize what he's confusing them with. They stay with their #1 or #2 option regardless of what the defense is dictating or trying to confuse them with.

 

[Fencer]

BB's view evidently is:

• A simple offense should work most of the time even against a good defense.
• However, when gains are short and drives are long, "most" often isn't good enough.
• Also, as the field shortens, the advantage switches toward the defense.

Brady, of course, takes "most of the time" to yet another level, which is why his drives succeed more often than other QBs' do. This is especially the case when he has possession-oriented receivers.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Re: What is up with the Pats defense and backup QB's

Flynn was finding the holes in the zone all night. Big question: where were the ILB's on the pass plays? Every time Flynn threw, it looked like it was over the middle in the area that the ILB's had vacated.

I agree. I was thinking the same thing about them exploiting the short middle area of our defense.

There have been a few games this year where teams have had a lot of success in that part of the field against us.