Is Mankins play worth 6.5M more than Connolly

[VJCPatriot]

So mankins wants 7 million plus per year... Connelly I believe is playing for the minimum or close. The o-line is playing its best in a few years. Brady has never gotten sacked alot but would still get hit. He's stayed
Pretty clean this year. I personally dont want Mankins for the last 6
Games

Oh he's better than Connolly. Just physically more talented player. But that doesn't diminish the improvements that Connolly has made this season. Knowing the Pats, they will just draft a replacement for Mankins. I don't see them meeting Mankins contract demands. Particularly after what I heard went on in negotiations. Mankins might have burned his bridges. But am I using Mankins the rest of the season? Hell yes, I am.

Neal went down again with a season ending injury, haven't you heard? You really want Brady protected by Orhnberger? Let Mankins be a mercenary for now, he will play his best to earn the big bucks in the offseason. If it motivates him to play better than '2007' then it's a win for everyone in the short term.

 

[Marqui]

At this point, they need to pay Mankins whatever he wants.

 

[Kontradiction]

Before anyone goes all Theo Epstein here about the relative worth of that extra $6.5 million per year:

__________________________
Kerry Byrne of CHFF on this Sunday Bears-Pats matchup:


"......And how about the chilly war of attrition up front?

New England is third on the Cold, Hard Football Facts Offensive Hog Index, our ranking of each team's offensive line. They run the ball fairly effectively (4.22 YPA), protect the passer extraordinarily well and are among the best in the league on third down (44.78%).

Patriots fans cite the return of Pro Bowl guard Logan Mankins as one reason the offensive line has looked so impressive. But the unit actually ranked No. 1 on our Offensive Hog Index before he ended his holdout, with unheralded Dan Connolly filling the void. Here's guessing the plug-and-play performance of the OL without Mankins was one reason he returned earlier than expected......"



Read more: Patriots-Bears is NFL game of the week - Kerry J. Byrne - SI.com

You'd do better just admitting that the line has looked better in run and pass protection and has taken on a nastier disposition with Mankins back than you would continuing this crusade. No offense.

 

[shmessy]

At this point, they need to pay Mankins whatever he wants.

Thank you, Dan Snyder.

Thank God we have Belichick and Ernie Adams making the decisions.

 

[shmessy]

You'd do better just admitting that the line has looked better in run and pass protection and has taken on a nastier disposition with Mankins back than you would continuing this crusade. No offense.

"It looks better" versus a quantifiable formula from Cold Hard football Facts? Whatever you like, Kontra. I'm going to agree to disagree.

Don't get me wrong - - I fully believe the OL is better with Mankins in there, despite the CHFF Hog ratings. I don't believe it is $6.5 million per year (that we could spend in other areas for this football team) better.

Personally, I'd rather spend that money on a monster Center or a monster OLB.

 

[Kontradiction]

Thank you, Dan Snyder.

Thank God we have Belichick and Ernie Adams making the decisions.

Eh, here we go again. Okay, let's say we don't pay Mankins and that's even considering the salary that was freed up from the Moss trade. Here are the needs that we're now going into the draft with...

1. LG
2. RG
3. OLB
4. DE
5. C
6. WR

If we don't re-sign Light, then that's either a LT or a RT need as well depending on Kaczur's overall health. Overall, 3/5's of the offensive line is on the wrong side of 30. With that in mind, I don't see how it DOESN'T make sense to pay Mankins. He's in his prime, has never been injured, has worked hard and sacrificed his body on his original contract, and is a Top 5 guard in the league. Pay him and either re-sign Light and keep Vollmer at RT with Kaczur moving in at Guard. Or Pay him, let Light go, move Vollmer to LT, and keep Kaczur at RT (if his health is good). Either way, you're using your best run and pass blocker to usher in the new-look Patriots offensive line. Paying the man doesn't mean we have to back up the Brinks truck for him. So how does this not make sense?

 

[Kontradiction]

"It looks better" versus a quantifiable formula from Cold Hard football Facts? Whatever you like, Kontra. I'm going to agree to disagree.

Don't get me wrong - - I fully believe the OL is better with Mankins in there, despite the CHFF Hog ratings. I don't believe it is $6.5 million per year (that we could spend in other areas for this football team) better.

Personally, I'd rather spend that money on a monster Center or a monster OLB.

Mankins is a top five guard. Of course the O-Line is better off without him in there. Before he came back, the O-Line was on pace to allow the most sacks on Brady in a season than they had in a long time. In five games since he's been back, they've allowed 5 (this includes 3 in the Jets game alone). Koppen has also seen his play drastically improve having Mankins playing next to him. The interior blocking on run plays has improved over what it was before (remember attempting to run off the left A and B gaps in the Chargers game?). Add all of this to the post that I made just now (one that I've wrote out to you ten times) and I don't see how it doesn't make sense.

You admit yourself that the O-Line has improved since Mankins came back as well.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Eh, here we go again. Okay, let's say we don't pay Mankins and that's even considering the salary that was freed up from the Moss trade. Here are the needs that we're now going into the draft with...

1. LG
2. RG

LG and RG? What's Connolly, chopped liver? I definitely have him penciled in as a starter. The Pats would only have to draft one guard to replace Mankins. He's not a one man offensive line. Or do you really believe that he protects both sides of the line at once whenever he lines up? LOL.

 

[Kontradiction]

LG and RG? What's Connolly, chopped liver? I definitely have him penciled in as a starter.

How many years has Connolly been in the league? How many times has he been penciled in as the starter when the original starter was healthy? I rest my case. Connolly has been solid with us this season, but let's not look past what happened to make him a starter in the first place. Mankins, the guy that has improved this O-Line since he came back, held out. Connolly is a LG, so he should get the start in his place right? Wrong. Kaczur, a RT, moved over from the RT spot and was set to start in front of Connolly in a completely different position on a completely different side of the O-Line. What does that say about Connolly? If BB didn't feel comfortable putting him above a third string guard last season, why would that change this year? Why WOULDN'T they look to draft a RG high in the draft with one of their six picks in the first three rounds to get Stephen Neal's replacement?

The Pats would only have to draft one guard to replace Mankins. He's not a one man offensive line. Or do you really believe that he protects both sides of the line at once whenever he lines up? LOL.

As of right now, it doesn't look like Stephen Neal is coming back. That would mean that we have to look for his replacement. The most likely place to find one who is young and cheap is through the draft. We already have to find a RG, a C, and possible a tackle in the draft. Why compound that by not using the means that we have available to us (especially after trading Moss away) to sign the top five guard that we already have on the roster? Especially after all he's done.

 

[PatsFan2]

LG and RG? What's Connolly, chopped liver? I definitely have him penciled in as a starter. The Pats would only have to draft one guard to replace Mankins. He's not a one man offensive line. Or do you really believe that he protects both sides of the line at once whenever he lines up? LOL.

Come on VJC Mankins is like two people out there.:eat3:

 

[IcyPatriot]

Re: Is Mankins play worth 6.5M more then Connolly

Apparently he is worth what they offered but not more than that. Without benefit of the playbook knowledge - what plays can they run with mankins that they aren't running now?

fans are sometimes too quick to anoint the new guy a success. I always say give it some time ... see if the new guy can compensate for the other teams film study as they attack his flaws. Mankins has had everything thrown at him and he remained at the top of the OL pecking order in the league.

hard to say we're better off without him until we spend his money elsewhere and see what we get for it.

well I am glad I pretty much got it correct.

search feature can be a b!tch sometimes.

 

[shmessy]

You admit yourself that the O-Line has improved since Mankins came back as well.

Yes. Once again, not $6.5 million worth per year better that they could spend on other areas.

What's so hard to understand? With him they are better.

Read Chris Price's The Blueprint or that book by Steve Lavin regarding the economics of Belichick. Under the salary cap regime, there is a price for everything that they designate.

 

[ausbacker]

Yes. Once again, not $6.5 million worth per year better that they could spend on other areas.

What's so hard to understand? With him they are better.

Read Chris Price's The Blueprint or that book by Steve Lavin regarding the economics of Belichick. Under the salary cap regime, there is a price for everything that they designate.

Protecting Tom Brady is more important than adding a pass rusher.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes. Once again, not $6.5 million worth per year better that they could spend on other areas.

What's so hard to understand? With him they are better.

Read Chris Price's The Blueprint or that book by Steve Lavin regarding the economics of Belichick. Under the salary cap regime, there is a price for everything that they designate.

Belichick and the Patriots offered Nick Mangold type money to Mankins.


What's so hard to understand?

 

[UofApatsfan]

Maybe Mankins is pricey but look at how the offense has played since he's come back. This might somewhat be selectively using stats, but I'm gonna ignore the Cleveland game since it was his first time playing football since last year w/ no training camp or preseason. The last four games combined:

Rushing stats:
109 rushes, 481 yards, 4.4 yards a carry, 120.3 yards per game

Passing stats:
129 attempts + sacks, 1,170 net pass yards, 9.1 yards per passing play, 292.5 pass yards yards per game

Right now, those stats would be be 10th in rush yards per game, 2nd in pass yards per game, and 1st in total yards per game. They had no problem racking up yards last year so this isn't a huge deal, but when it's being done with a 46% rush, 54% pass balance and a 78% success rate (14 of 18) in the redzone, we know that right now they're a versatile offense that converts opportunities and can always take whatever the defense gives.

Obviously they aren't gonna continue on this pace, but if they keep playing close to this level, Mankins more than deserves the money. For those who think that no guard is worth as much as Mankins wants because no guard is that important to an offense, there's some truth to that, but we've seen offenses sputter once they lose a pro bowl guard. The Seahawks had by far the most balanced and best offense in the NFL in 2005, then they let Hutchinson leave because they didn't wanna make him the highest paid guard in NFL history. When they've been this efficient without any RBs or WRs making huge money, shelling out for Mankins to anchor the line is easily the best route to take.

 

[Kasmir]

First of all, Mankins is a lot better than Connolly. A healthy Neal is a lot better than Connolly. Mankins and Neal when have been consistently one of the best pairs of guards in the league. That's not to say Connolly isn't a starting-quality guard, and it's not to say Connolly isn't still improving.

A healthy Neal has been rare throughout his career, and the chances of Neal retiring are pretty good. It's nice to have Connolly, and it's been shown that Connolly can be paired with either of them this year and have good results in both the running and passing game with this year's team. But Connolly is not an exceptional talent, and if we lose both Neal and Mankins we have the problem or replacing an elite guard.

As for Mankins, at this point I don't think the issue is just monetary. There's evidence that there's bad blood between Connolly and the Krafts. My speculation is that it's probably due to some unfortunate and difficult to forgive generalization about the Krafts that Mankins was overheard saying. One might observe that Mankins isn't from the most diversity-celebrating American subculture. If you know Fresno, you know what I mean.

 

[jbb9s]

who would want to sign with the Patriots? They have a real crappy vacation schedule in January, year after year.

 

[andrewgarrr]

Belichick and the Patriots offered Nick Mangold type money to Mankins.


What's so hard to understand?

The question is whether the fans think he is worth the money, not if Belichick and Patriots think he is worth the money. Isn't it entirely possible that fans can disagree with Belichick?

Although, I agree with Belichick on this one. Hopefully they can just agree to what they had in place earlier, with or without the apology - I couldn't care less for that.

 

[Deus Irae]

The question is whether the fans think he is worth the money, not if Belichick and Patriots think he is worth the money. Isn't it entirely possible that fans can disagree with Belichick?

Although, I agree with Belichick on this one. Hopefully they can just agree to what they had in place earlier, with or without the apology - I couldn't care less for that.

When you're citing:

Read Chris Price's The Blueprint or that book by Steve Lavin regarding the economics of Belichick.

and it's Belichick/Kraft who's made the offer, no, you can't legitimately continue disagreeing by using that sort of argument.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Pay the man. Just pay him.