Key to defending the Pats: Disrupt routes?

[Fencer]

Offensive unit’s struggles a deepening concern for Pats - BostonHerald.com is the article that made me think of the point, but generally where I'm coming from is this.

The Pats' passing game is "out of sync", with receivers not being where they're supposed to be.

Well, these guys practice, and they're paid well, and if the defense doesn't interfere they presumably are likely to get to where they're supposed to be when they're supposed to be there. Ergo, it's those pesky opposing defenses that are the problem.

Yes, I know about not catching the ball cleanly and so on, but again that's more likely to happen when you're flustered by the great difficulty of getting to the right place at the right time.

I'm beginning to suspect this is as big a deal as hurrying Brady is, or perhaps even bigger.

Certainly it's what first made Moss mortal, way back in the latter part of the 2007 season.

 

[Brady2Welker]

Jamming, and physical defensive back play has been the key to shutting down the Patriots spread offense, as well as other teams spread offenses. Timing attacks get whooped by physical play, see the Colts whenever they played the Patriots in 01-04', or even the game that shall not be named. Man handle their receiving threats and use minimal rushers to get to the QB, force an errant throw or a sack if the QB is willing to wait for the WR to adjust.

 

[neuronet]

Offensive unit’s struggles a deepening concern for Pats - BostonHerald.com is the article that made me think of the point, but generally where I'm coming from is this.

The Pats' passing game is "out of sync", with receivers not being where they're supposed to be.

Well, these guys practice, and they're paid well, and if the defense doesn't interfere they presumably are likely to get to where they're supposed to be when they're supposed to be there. Ergo, it's those pesky opposing defenses that are the problem.

Yes, I know about not catching the ball cleanly and so on, but again that's more likely to happen when you're flustered by the great difficulty of getting to the right place at the right time.

I'm beginning to suspect this is as big a deal as hurrying Brady is, or perhaps even bigger.

Certainly it's what first made Moss mortal, way back in the latter part of the 2007 season.

You are right, I think, but isn't it also sort of obvious? I don't mean that as an insult, but my point is the defenders have been trying to disrupt our receivers the whole time, but something has happened that makes our receivers more susceptible to such disruptions. E.g., Welker's game is off a few hundred milliseconds, which is an eternity in the NFL. He doesn't have the quickness he used to have. With Moss gone, the field is shorter, so there is more density of short coverage to disrupt Welker and others. Branch is injured, etc..

 

[Triumph]

Yup Fencer, Phil Simms said NE was getting back to route running after Moss was dealt. I dont beleive Moss would make that much difference either.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

You are right, I think, but isn't it also sort of obvious? I don't mean that as an insult, but my point is the defenders have been trying to disrupt our receivers the whole time, but something has happened that makes our receivers more susceptible to such disruptions. E.g., Welker's game is off a few hundred milliseconds, which is an eternity in the NFL. He doesn't have the quickness he used to have. With Moss gone, the field is shorter, so there is more density of short coverage to disrupt Welker and others. Branch is injured, etc..

Welker is recovering from an injury.

The rest of the WR are relatively young. They are less experienced with route running than more experienced WR and thus more susceptible to being disrupted.

Also look at our two losses. One was to a great defensive mind. Say what you will about Rex, but he knows defenses. He knows how to disrupt the Pats offense. The other was to a coach that probably knows Tom Brady and the Patriots offense as well as anyone.

Every wonder why someone like Tom Brady who was a mediocre college QB turned out to be an elite NFL QB and someone like Matt Cassell who couldn't even get a starting gig in college turned out to be pretty good. Yet some damn good college QBs became busts. Well, its cause the game is different. In college the WR run imperfect routes, attempt to break away the DB and the QB throws to the receiver. In the pros, the WR runs a specific route and the QB throws the ball to a specific location that the WR needs to get to. Different skill sets for both the QB and WR.

This thread and excuses 101 ought be merged it is the same topic.

 

[sbpatfan]

Every wonder why someone like Tom Brady who was a mediocre college QB turned out to be an elite NFL QB and someone like Matt Cassell who couldn't even get a starting gig in college turned out to be pretty good. Yet some damn good college QBs became busts. Well, its cause the game is different. In college the WR run imperfect routes, attempt to break away the DB and the QB throws to the receiver. In the pros, the WR runs a specific route and the QB throws the ball to a specific location that the WR needs to get to. Different skill sets for both the QB and WR.

That was more of Michigan's fault.

During his first full year as starter, he set Michigan records for most pass attempts and completions in a season (214).[13] Brady was All-Big Ten (honorable mention) both seasons and team captain his senior year. The Wolverines won 20 of 25 games when he started and shared the Big Ten Conference title in 1998. Brady capped that season with a win over Arkansas in the Citrus Bowl.[14] In the 1999 season, Brady led Michigan to an overtime win in the Orange Bowl over Alabama, throwing for 369 yards and four touchdowns.

There was some really weird "politics" stuff going on at Michigan between Brady and Henson at the time. They had to give Henson a lot of playing time and crap because they didn't want him to leave for baseball. But when Brady did play he was lights out.

 

[Sicilian]

I think this is true of just about any offense really. Disrupting a route within five yards either gives the rush an extra half to full second to pressure the QB, or throws off any timing patterns that may have been called. The trade off, is if you don't disrupt well enough, you're almost guaranteed to get beaten. I think the reason it's working so well on the Pats recently is the health of Welker and Branch keeps them from beating the press clean, and Tate isn't really that physical of a receiver.

 

[alvinnf]

Bunch sets and Motion say hi!

 

[jmt57]

I was going to start a separate thread on this, but it looks like this thread may be more appropriate.

Amoeba D a hard cell for Brady, Sanchez - AFC East Blog - ESPN

ESPN Stats & Information charted Cleveland's amoeba defense, an unusual scheme described as "at least five defensive players in the box with one or fewer down linemen." It's difficult for a quarterback to read at the line, creates pass-protection confusion for linemen and clogs passing lanes.

The results were persuasive, according to ESPN Stats & Information's data.

Patriots passing versus the amoeba: 3-of-13 for 51 yards, zero touchdowns, one interception and an 11.4 passer rating.

Patriots passing versus other defenses: 16-of-25 for 173 yards, two touchdowns, no interceptions and a 110.9 passer rating.

I know this is just one game and therefore the sample size is quite small, but the difference is startling. I can't recall Brady ever having numbers as bad as 3/13/51 and a QBR of 11.4.

Brady overthrew a target seven times (3.0 average through seven games), had four passes defensed by Cleveland (2.9 average), underthrew three targets (1.9 average), had two dropped (2.6 average) and threw one away (0.7 average).

The good news is the drops were actually down; I was surprised to see that. Brady either overthrew or underthrew ten passes Sunday; I'm sure almost all were against that "amoeba" defense.

I could be wrong but I don't think the Browns have used that type of defense much this year, and assuming that was the case the Pats didn't prepare for it - and it showed on Sunday. Begrudgingly, hats off to Mangini and Ryan for their game plan. The NFL is a copycat league so until the Pats prove they can play against this type of defense I'm sure we will see it a gain - though probably not this week; Pittsburgh doesn't strike me as the team of team that would run that.

"When Tom knows what you're in, he'll take you apart," Browns head coach Eric Mangini said. "We tried to disguise things so he couldn't get comfortable. We had one defensive plan for the first half and an entirely different one for the second half because we didn't want him adjusting at halftime with ways to attack us.

"Dealing with a guy like Tom and an offense like that, not giving him a lot of pre-snap reads, was extremely important. I thought our guys did it well."

My guess is that the Pats made on the fly or halftime adjustments; the problem was that the Browns were still one step ahead of them with their game plan. The extra week to prepare surely helped a lot too.

 

[Halifax_Pats_Fan]

When did we turn into the greatest show on turf?

 

[sieglo]

Not having a solid power running game kills against this type of defense.

Pats should have just gone to the hurry up offense early.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

When did we turn into the greatest show on turf?

November 14, 2006. Prior to that we were the greatest show on grass.

 

[Sicilian]

Not having a solid power running game kills against this type of defense.

Pats should have just gone to the hurry up offense early.

The problem with overusing the hurry up is it puts the defense back on the field quicker. If you score, you score quicker, and if you go 3 and out your D has now had about 2 minutes to breathe before going back out there.

They definitely need to use it, but you can't just do the hurry up from start to finish.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

This is why Woodhead out of the backfield has been pretty effective in the last few games. He cannot get jammed and he's too fast for a LB to pick him up.

Regards,
Chris

 

[TealSox]

There are ways around this type of obstacles that a good offensive coordinator can use to the offenses advantage by making second half adjustments.

When is the finger pointed at the offensive coordinator and relieving some of the burden that Bill and Tom share?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Per a former college friend of Brady's who was at the game in the Dawg pound Sunday, the receivers were getting open. He frankly states Brady's game "sucked," oddly enough that was my impression watching the the game on TV.

Welker is now the defender magnet for NE receivers, they all collapse on him. Branch is reportedly injured (again) and appears to be playing inconsistently. The kids themselves are going to be inconsistent as they develop, so far I'm pleased with them. The deep ball was never a big feature of the NE offense before Moss, this offense is still getting it's legs. I think Fred Taylor returning and more time between Brady and his receiver will see things settle down going forward.

 

[reflexblue]

I think if Branch wasn't hobbled it would solve a lot of problems. We saw what the offense could be like on his first game back. Sadly i think being injured is Twiggs lot in football life.

 

[SVN]

troy brown on weei said today that most of brady's throws at feet of WR's or high up are usually because he is unsure if the WR is going to run the precise route -break at 8 or 10 steps etc. So he has no confidence in throwing the ball to these guys right now