Schefter: Patriots trade Maroney to Denver for 2011 4th - Broncos get 2011 6 [merged]

[NYCPatsFan]

Re: Schefter: Patriots trade Maroney to Denver for 2011 4th - Broncos get 2011 6 [mer

Why now? Peak value. They cut him in camp they get nothing. He goes after the season they get a comp pick in 2012 or 2013 that could equal the same value but likely won't. They trade him after game 1 and on the cusp of Ryan Grant getting hurt and out for the year gives them that something that they otherwise wouldn't have gotten...at least not this upcoming draft and not at the same value Denver was willing to give.

Thanks. Wasn't aware of Ryan Grant being out of the year.

I didn't have cutting in mind. They could have traded him. But past is past.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Schefter: Patriots trade Maroney to Denver for 2011 4th - Broncos get 2011 6 [mer

Thanks. Wasn't aware of Ryan Grant being out of the year.

I didn't have cutting in mind. They could have traded him. But past is past.

In the Broncos' case specifically, I bet it had something to do with Correll Buckhalter. He hurt himself in their first preseason practice, and maybe they wanted to see how long it would take him to get back? Either way, the guy hurts his knee on a monthly basis, so I kinda agree with you in that I don't know why it took them this long to conclude that he isn't reliable enough even as depth.

 

[efin98]

Re: Schefter: Patriots trade Maroney to Denver for 2011 4th - Broncos get 2011 6 [mer

Thanks. Wasn't aware of Ryan Grant being out of the year.

I didn't have cutting in mind. They could have traded him. But past is past.

Him getting traded in camp or preseason may not have brought in the 4th they wanted...they could have gotten offers for a 7th, 6th, or 5th rounder and decided to hold onto him.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: Schefter: Patriots trade Maroney to Denver for 2011 4th - Broncos get 2011 6 [mer

According to Football Outsiders, last year Maroney was the 11th most successful back at picking up "needed yards", doing so 52% of the time (needed yards being 40% first down/60% second down/100% third and fourth down).

That's why there are numbers, there are damn lies, and then there are statistics.
You can always make up something to sugar coat Maroney's mediocre performance, despite his -- 3.83 YPC average over the last two seasons. I'm not even counting his no show in the playoffs last year and his scratch in the first week this year. Love how YPC has fallen out of favor now that it doesn't put Maroney in a good light. The new excuse is DVOA. Shrug, the time for excuses is over, he's gone. BB dumped him. Move on. Get a new binky.

He seems universally disliked by vets. I'm not going to say they just wanted to get something, there was definitely a problem with with his attitude. My guess was he was considered soft, or too inconsistent in attitude.

Sure hope BJGE is this terror of a power back, I sure don't see it. Seems like a JAG to me.

So he was a headcase too? Regardless of his attitude, and that may have been part of it, the fact is he that never 'got it'. It's season 5. BB had seen a full training camp of Maroney and decided that the kid wasn't worth keeping because he wasn't one of the Pats top 45 players. BJGE might be a JAG but he cost us nothing. Maroney was a 1st rounder who capped off a draft full of busts in '06. Our only remaining player from that draft class is Gostkowski, a kicker.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Schefter: Patriots trade Maroney to Denver for 2011 4th - Broncos get 2011 6 [mer

That's why there are numbers, there are damn lies, and then there are statistics.
You can always make up something to sugar coat Maroney's mediocre performance, despite his -- 3.83 YPC average over the last two seasons.

Did you really ust use the "damn lies, and statistics" line and then follow it up by INTENTIONALLY misrepresenting the facts? You threw in numbers from his 2008 injury year JUST to lower the YPC number of last year. Absolutely pathetic. 4.2 YPC over the course of 582 carries in his career. Get over it, you have NEVER been right about him, and still aren't. He's going to continue to be a good, not great, RB for Denver.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: Schefter: Patriots trade Maroney to Denver for 2011 4th - Broncos get 2011 6 [mer

Over the last two years Maroney has been Leonard Russell.
Just look at footballreferece.com.
These are just the cold hard facts.

Laurence Maroney NFL & AFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Since Maroney only had 28 carriers in 08, that did very little to lower his overall YPC over the past 2 years. But that injury plagued year did seem to be a harbinger of his impending loss of explosiveness.

Let's do the arithmetic so you won't feel so outraged over what the cold numbers add up to:

2008 28 carries 93 yards = 3.32 ypc
2009 194 carries 757 yards = 3.90 ypc
Now add.
28+192= 222 carries
93+757= 850 yards
Now divide.
850/222= 3.83 ypc

Like I said a long time ago, the closest player who projects to Maroney's career pattern is Kevan Barlow. It's really eerie. They both started off with deceptively good looking ypcs then drop like rocks ypc-wise. Likely due to injury/loss of confidence/effectiveness. Or maybe they were just busts.
Kevan Barlow NFL & AFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

At least the Barlow experiment only cost the 49ers a 3rd round pick but they gave up on him after 5 seasons. They sent him packing to the Jets. Season 5 is ALSO the same time BB concluded he had seen more than enough of Maroney's mediocrity. But he pulled the trigger at the beginning of the year. At least he salvaged a 4th round pick out of it.

 

[zeke mowatt]

Re: Schefter: Patriots trade Maroney to Denver for 2011 4th - Broncos get 2011 6 [mer

Maroney was a bum.............now he's in our rear view mirror.

No one will remember him in a years time.

Why anyone would continue to defend the dancing queen is beyond me.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Schefter: Patriots trade Maroney to Denver for 2011 4th - Broncos get 2011 6 [mer

Since Maroney only had 28 carriers in 08, that did very little to lower his overall YPC over the past 2 years. But that injury plagued year did seem to be a harbinger of his impending loss of explosiveness.

The guy had a broken f'ing shoulder in 2008. If you weren't so damn biased you wouldn't be continuing to use "the last 2 years" while ignoring his career (which is 582 carries).

Let's do the arithmetic so you won't feel so outraged over what the cold numbers add up to:

Yeah I do my homework and I do NOT need a math lesson from you.
28 / 222 = 12.6%

Get some perspective, stop being biased and learn what "good not great" means.

 

[Brock Samson]

Re: Schefter: Patriots trade Maroney to Denver for 2011 4th - Broncos get 2011 6 [mer

The Pats hit on more fourth rounders than they miss on. Could be anything from Ohrnberger to Samuel, with the middle ground being a Wilhite-type player. And as much as people like to rip on Wilhite, he's quality depth, which is exactly what you're looking for in the fourth round. Trades like this are why the Pats always seem to be deeper than their opponents.

Here is a cursory analysis of 4th round picks taken by the Pats since 2000. I'm sure I've overlooked something, but in the end 4th round picks aren't really all that.

? Aaron Hernandez
- Rich Ohrnberger
= Jonathan Wilhite
- Kareem Brown
- Garrett Mills
+ Stephen Gostkowski
= James Sanders
- Dexter Reid
- Cedric Cobbs
- Dan Klecko
+ Asante Samuel
- Rohan Davey
+ Jarvis Green
- Kenyatta Jones
- Jabari Holloway
- Greg Robinson-Randall

Total picks: 16
Hits: 3
Average/mediocre contributors: 2
Misses: 10
Unknowns: 1

5/16 were contributors: 31%
6/16 were contributors (best case w/ Hernandez): 38%
3/16 were great picks: 19%
4/16 were great picks (best case w/ Hernandez): 25%
10/16 did not really contribute: 62.5%

Key
Hit: +
Average/mediocre contributor: =
Miss: -
Unknown: ?

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: Schefter: Patriots trade Maroney to Denver for 2011 4th - Broncos get 2011 6 [mer

Maroney was a bum.............now he's in our rear view mirror.

No one will remember him in a years time.

Why anyone would continue to defend the dancing queen is beyond me.

No maroney ball washer in this forum has the balls to come out and say they were wrong

Belichick finally gave up on this loser and Troy and tedy agree

Had maroney by some miracle actually had a game he was relevant in this season you would
see the same ball washers bash the fans who did not agree with him still here but now they all coward behind their computers knowing they were wrong all along.

Why it took bill this long is beyond me,that man has patience,that's for sure

I never hated Maroney as a person,he's probably a decent guy to hang around with but the fact remains he is an Arena League material as far as a RB goes - Josh has a load to work on down there

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Schefter: Patriots trade Maroney to Denver for 2011 4th - Broncos get 2011 6 [mer

Ellis Hobbs is a starting cornerback in the National Football League. He was traded for 2 5ths by BB. Someone who is a "bum" or "sucks" does noy get traded, they get dropped/released because no one wants a "bum". For reasons we will never know for certain BB didn't feel that Hobbs or Maroney fit with what he wanted going forward. However, I fully expect Maroney to contribute (just like Hobbs) to another team.

 

[JMarr]

Re: Schefter: Patriots trade Maroney to Denver for 2011 4th - Broncos get 2011 6 [mer

No maroney ball washer in this forum has the balls to come out and say they were wrong

Belichick finally gave up on this loser and Troy and tedy agree

Had maroney by some miracle actually had a game he was relevant in this season you would
see the same ball washers bash the fans who did not agree with him still here but now they all coward behind their computers knowing they were wrong all along.

Why it took bill this long is beyond me,that man has patience,that's for sure

I never hated Maroney as a person,he's probably a decent guy to hang around with but the fact remains he is an Arena League material as far as a RB goes - Josh has a load to work on down there

Okay, all attitude issues, rumored dope-smoking [or whatever] issues or injury issues aside, I just don't see how anyone can say that, based on what they saw between the lines for the last three years, that Maroney isn't head and shoulders above BJGE as a RB. Maroney is still a talented RB and could tear it up if he ever gets his head straight and can stay uninjured.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Schefter: Patriots trade Maroney to Denver for 2011 4th - Broncos get 2011 6 [mer

Okay, all attitude issues, rumored dope-smoking [or whatever] issues or injury issues aside, I just don't see how anyone can say that, based on what they saw between the lines for the last three years, that Maroney isn't head and shoulders above BJGE as a RB. Maroney is still a talented RB and could tear it up if he ever gets his head straight and can stay uninjured.

I'm finding that BradyFTW! had it right. Reading the anti-Maroney screeching is a great way to figure out who to put on ignore.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Schefter: Patriots trade Maroney to Denver for 2011 4th - Broncos get 2011 6 [mer

Here is a cursory analysis of 4th round picks taken by the Pats since 2000. I'm sure I've overlooked something, but in the end 4th round picks aren't really all that.

? Aaron Hernandez
- Rich Ohrnberger
= Jonathan Wilhite
- Kareem Brown
- Garrett Mills
+ Stephen Gostkowski
= James Sanders
- Dexter Reid
- Cedric Cobbs
- Dan Klecko
+ Asante Samuel
- Rohan Davey
+ Jarvis Green
- Kenyatta Jones
- Jabari Holloway
- Greg Robinson-Randall

Total picks: 16
Hits: 3
Average/mediocre contributors: 2
Misses: 10
Unknowns: 1

5/16 were contributors: 31%
6/16 were contributors (best case w/ Hernandez): 38%
3/16 were great picks: 19%
4/16 were great picks (best case w/ Hernandez): 25%
10/16 did not really contribute: 62.5%

Key
Hit: +
Average/mediocre contributor: =
Miss: -
Unknown: ?

I'd put Ohrnberger solidly into the unknown category, and I'd make James Sanders a plus (a multi-year starter in a pretty good defense who has the 10th highest salary on this year's team).

Either way, it's a good point, I did misspeak in saying that they hit on more than they missed on. The overall point that I was making was that the Pats do a great job with 4th round picks, and the fact that they hit on them about 35% of the time speaks to that fact. Especially true when you consider that, since drafting 3 busts out of the gate, they've received solid, multi-year contributions out of almost half of their picks. I can see why Belichick preferred that to one season of Maroney. Makes me a little uneasy with our RB depth, but I'm sure he has a plan.

I, for one, think it would be hilarious if the Pats signed Woodhead. The whole debacle with him over the last week speaks to how poorly the JEts manage their roster; there's absolutely no good reason to cut Woodhead now that wasn't also there heading into the Ravens game. The Jets chose to go against a team whose biggest weakness was secondary depth with 3 WRs, so that they could carry an extra RB against probably the best front 7 in the NFL.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Schefter: Patriots trade Maroney to Denver for 2011 4th - Broncos get 2011 6 [mer

I'd put Ohrnberger solidly into the unknown category, and I'd make James Sanders a plus (a multi-year starter in a pretty good defense who has the 10th highest salary on this year's team).

Either way, it's a good point, I did misspeak in saying that they hit on more than they missed on. The overall point that I was making was that the Pats do a great job with 4th round picks, and the fact that they hit on them about 35% of the time speaks to that fact. Especially true when you consider that, since drafting 3 busts out of the gate, they've received solid, multi-year contributions out of almost half of their picks. I can see why Belichick preferred that to one season of Maroney. Makes me a little uneasy with our RB depth, but I'm sure he has a plan.

I, for one, think it would be hilarious if the Pats signed Woodhead. The whole debacle with him over the last week speaks to how poorly the JEts manage their roster; there's absolutely no good reason to cut Woodhead now that wasn't also there heading into the Ravens game. The Jets chose to go against a team whose biggest weakness was secondary depth with 3 WRs, so that they could carry an extra RB against probably the best front 7 in the NFL.

For 4th round picks, Robinson-Randall would have to be a hit (51 games, 38 starts), and Jones is a borderline guy. He'd made it (11 starts, then landing on PUP), right up to the point where he lost his mind. He's sort of like a certain 7th round pick special teams guy of more recent memory.

 

[voluntarysaftey]

Re: Schefter: Patriots trade Maroney to Denver for 2011 4th - Broncos get 2011 6 [mer

Here is a cursory analysis of 4th round picks taken by the Pats since 2000. I'm sure I've overlooked something, but in the end 4th round picks aren't really all that.

5/16 were contributors: 31%
6/16 were contributors (best case w/ Hernandez): 38%
3/16 were great picks: 19%
4/16 were great picks (best case w/ Hernandez): 25%
10/16 did not really contribute: 62.5%

Thanks for the numbers! But to be more accurate you should subtract the numbers from 6th round picks for an accurate assessment since we lose that

 

[Brock Samson]

Re: Schefter: Patriots trade Maroney to Denver for 2011 4th - Broncos get 2011 6 [mer

For 4th round picks, Robinson-Randall would have to be a hit (51 games, 38 starts), and Jones is a borderline guy. He'd made it (11 starts, then landing on PUP), right up to the point where he lost his mind. He's sort of like a certain 7th round pick special teams guy of more recent memory.

At best Robinson-Randall is an average contributor, but only for a short period, which is why I put him as a miss - we dumped (traded) him after only 3 seasons after only 23 starts for the team (less than 2 regular seasons, of course). His number of starts is probably a function of team depth at the time more than anything else. Jones is a miss, any way you slice it. All this is IMHO.

 

[Brock Samson]

Re: Schefter: Patriots trade Maroney to Denver for 2011 4th - Broncos get 2011 6 [mer

Thanks for the numbers! But to be more accurate you should subtract the numbers from 6th round picks for an accurate assessment since we lose that

You're probably right, but with a HOF outlier in that round I'm not touching the 6th round with a ten foot pole.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Schefter: Patriots trade Maroney to Denver for 2011 4th - Broncos get 2011 6 [mer

At best Robinson-Randall is an average contributor, but only for a short period, which is why I put him as a miss - we dumped (traded) him after only 3 seasons after only 23 starts for the team (less than 2 regular seasons, of course). His number of starts is probably a function of team depth at the time more than anything else. Jones is a miss, any way you slice it. All this is IMHO.

23 starts from a 4th rounder is pretty good. Not world-beating by any stretch, but I wouldn't consider it a wasted pick. Is a 40-50% chance at that, with Samuel as the upper ceiling, worth more than 1 year of Maroney? Given my faith in Belichick's drafting after the last two years, I'm pretty okay with that.

 

[Brock Samson]

Re: Schefter: Patriots trade Maroney to Denver for 2011 4th - Broncos get 2011 6 [mer

23 starts from a 4th rounder is pretty good.

True, it's not bad. I could accept him as an average contributor, but probably not as a hit.