Patriots offered Mankins Top 3 Guard Pay

[Deus Irae]

Could be the reporter you linked to knows more than Belichick.

Given that it was the Chargers' GM that sent out the letters, I don't see what the reporter has to do with it.

 

[Deus Irae]

Is this relevant? The agent says the Patriots will do everything nasty that they can, while Belichick is saying Mankins isn't under contract so they don't need to do anything? Clearly, there's a disconnect here with the agent who doesn't seem to know the rules. The Patriots don't need to do anything with Mankins.

Obviously it's relevant to your post. You were calling the guy a gas bag with no clue, and claiming that he wasn't giving his client proper representation, and you're now claiming that he doesn't seem to know the rules when another NFL GM has already sent such letters out to his unsigned RFAs.

 

[Ring 6]

Is this relevant? The agent says the Patriots will do everything nasty that they can, while Belichick is saying Mankins isn't under contract so they don't need to do anything? Clearly, there's a disconnect here with the agent who doesn't seem to know the rules. The Patriots don't need to do anything with Mankins.

It sounds like the letter is an option, and BB chose not to send it.
I guess you are saying the agent misread the situation?
IMO, this is a good thing. BB would probably send the letter if he was certain Mankins wouldnt soften his stance. The agent wouldnt be whining if he was committed to his course of action.
Holdouts usually look ugly beofre they look better. No one wins if he sits home, so patience should be the plan.

 

[upstater1]

Obviously it's relevant to your post. You were calling the guy a gas bag with no clue, and claiming that he wasn't giving his client proper representation, and you're now claiming that he doesn't seem to know the rules when another NFL GM has already sent such letters out to his unsigned RFAs.

No, it's pretty obvious to everyone but you that the agent seems to think the letters are pro forma, and they're not. Look at how the agent phrased it: "The Patriots will do everything nasty."

Now you know more than Bill belichick.

 

[upstater1]

It sounds like the letter is an option, and BB chose not to send it.
I guess you are saying the agent misread the situation?
IMO, this is a good thing. BB would probably send the letter if he was certain Mankins wouldnt soften his stance. The agent wouldnt be whining if he was committed to his course of action.
Holdouts usually look ugly beofre they look better. No one wins if he sits home, so patience should be the plan.

Yes, I'm saying the agent misread it, but also mischaracterized it. If this is what he's saying in the media, imagine what he's saying behind closed doors.

 

[Miguel]

Curran has another piece up where he wonders if Bauer's BS meter is off kilter. Apparently while he claimed that the Patriots asked if they could fashion a deal based on Evans deal, he also claimed he hasn't heard from the team since May 4th. Evans deal was signed on May 5th. Bauer isn't returning Curran's calls, although it seems he's talking to pretty much every other reporter who dials him up...

Mankins' agent stops making sense

I just tweeted Tom Curran:
"Is it not possible 4 the Saints & Evans 2 have reached a deal on 3rd, submit deal 2 NFLMC & have NFLMC on 5th? less than 5 seconds ago".

The CBA says "Any agreement between any player and any Club concerning terms and conditions of employment shall be set forth in writing in a Player Contract as soon as practicable. Each Club shall provide to the NFLMC a copy of each such Player Contract within two days of the execution of such
contract by the player and the Club"

 

[Miguel]

The Official San Diego Chargers Forum - View Single Post - What If VJ Doesn't Get His 6 Games In?
Provides some good information about the roster-exempt list.

See Article XXXII Section 4 in the CBA for more background

"No player may be placed on roster exempt under this Subsection unless the Club has provided written notice to the player and the NFLPA of its intent to place the player on roster exempt at least five days prior to the Club’s second preseason game."

 

[Deus Irae]

No, it's pretty obvious to everyone but you that the agent seems to think the letters are pro forma, and they're not. Look at how the agent phrased it: "The Patriots will do everything nasty."

Now you know more than Bill belichick.

Except that the letters are not pro forma and, even if they were, that wouldn't change the fact that your post was undermined by Smith sending out the letters to the Chargers' RFAs.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

So from that Miguel SD reference it seems incumbent on BB to send the Tweet, I mean the letter, to Mankins to free up the roster spot. My understanding is the downside that Mankins can't then play till game 4 were he to kiss and make up.

 

[Miguel]

Wow, any of you defending Bauer need to read Reiss's latest at ESPN Boston. Apparently, this gasbag isn't giving his client proper representation. He has NO CLUE about the ins and outs of negotiations. How are the Patriots supposed to negotiate with a clueless agent? It's Mankins' own damn fault that he's represented by a moron. Read this:

According to the transcript this is what BB said:
"Q: It's a housekeeping issue, but would today be the deadline for any team to send a letter to a player notifying him of the team's right to put him on the roster exempt list?

BB: I'm not sure, but I don't think it affects any of our players, so I'm not sure of the exact date on that.

Q: So that would not affect Logan Mankins?

BB: He's not under contract."

This is what the CBA says:
"Section 4. Roster Exemption:
....
(c) Restricted Players. Any player whose contract has expired and who either (i) has two but less than three Accrued Seasons or (ii) is a Restricted Free Agent pursuant to Article XIX (Veteran Free Agency),Section 2, and who has been given the required tender pursuant to Article XVIII (Veterans With Less Than Three Accrued Seasons), Section 2, or Article XIX (Veteran Free Agency), Sections 2(b)(i) or (ii), and who has not signed a contract and has not reported to his Club’s pre-season training camp, may be placed on the roster exempt list of his Club under the following conditions:
(i) If the player has not reported at least the day before the Club’s second pre-season game, he may be placed on roster exempt until the day following the Club’s first regular season game.
(ii) If the player has not reported at least the day before the Club’s third pre-season game, he may be placed on roster exempt until the day following the Club’s second regular season game.
(iii) If the player has not reported at least the day before the Club’s fourth pre-season game, he may be placed on roster exempt until the day following the third regular season game scheduled after the date he
actually reports.
(iv) Any player who is placed on the roster exempt list of his Club, pursuant to Article XXXII, Section 4(c) shall be entitled to full compensation from his Club for any week in which his Club has a “bye” after the date he reports, but while he is still on the roster exempt list. Thus, any such player may not lose more than three weeks of salary as a result of being placed on the roster exempt list. This agreement shall not affect the number of regular season games for which the player can be placed on the roster exempt list, and thus for which the player may not play for his Club, in accordance with Subsections (i)-(iii) above. Nothing herein shall affect any right or obligation the player or Club otherwise may have concerning compensation to the player.
(v) No player may be placed on roster exempt under this Subsection unless the Club has provided written notice to the player and the NFLPA of its intent to place the player on roster exempt at least five days prior to the Club’s second preseason game. Once such written notice is provided, the Club must place the player on roster exempt in accordance with Subsections (i)-(iii) above....."

Since BB stated that he was not sure, why are you are so sure that Bauer is wrong?

 

[Miguel]

So from that Miguel SD reference it seems incumbent on BB to send the Tweet, I mean the letter, to Mankins to free up the roster spot. My understanding is the downside that Mankins can't then play till game 4 were he to kiss and make up.

Not to free up a roster spot but to make it possible for Mankins to get 3 weeks of practice before going on the 53-man roster.

 

[Ring 6]

Not to free up a roster spot but to make it possible for Mankins to get 3 weeks of practice before going on the 53-man roster.

So youare saying the letter ALLOWS a roster exemption for 3 weeks, that if FORCES an inactive 3 weeks?

 

[Miguel]

So youare saying the letter ALLOWS a roster exemption for 3 weeks,

Yes

that if FORCES an inactive 3 weeks?

No. I am interpreting the CBA as if Mankins were ready to play after one week of practice he could go on the 53-man roster.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

So, if BB & Co did NOT send the letter, per the CBA they cannot put him on roster exemption, i.e. he counts against the 53. Someone more creative than I might posit a reason why BB would NOT send such a letter, an action that carries no penalty as I read the CBA citation and saves a roster spot possibly for a few weeks.

"(v) No player may be placed on roster exempt under this Subsection unless the Club has provided written notice to the player and the NFLPA of its intent to place the player on roster exempt at least five days prior to the Club’s second preseason game""

 

[upstater1]

Except that the letters are not pro forma and, even if they were, that wouldn't change the fact that your post was undermined by Smith sending out the letters to the Chargers' RFAs.

Smith undermined my post? Oh. Interesting.

My post was about how Belichick didn't have to send a letter to Mankins, and that Mankins' agent was adamant the letter was coming, and he portrayed the Patriots as nasty.

What did Smith say about my post?

 

[upstater1]

According to the transcript this is what BB said:
"Q: It's a housekeeping issue, but would today be the deadline for any team to send a letter to a player notifying him of the team's right to put him on the roster exempt list?

BB: I'm not sure, but I don't think it affects any of our players, so I'm not sure of the exact date on that.

Q: So that would not affect Logan Mankins?

BB: He's not under contract."

This is what the CBA says:
"Section 4. Roster Exemption:
....
(c) Restricted Players. Any player whose contract has expired and who either (i) has two but less than three Accrued Seasons or (ii) is a Restricted Free Agent pursuant to Article XIX (Veteran Free Agency),Section 2, and who has been given the required tender pursuant to Article XVIII (Veterans With Less Than Three Accrued Seasons), Section 2, or Article XIX (Veteran Free Agency), Sections 2(b)(i) or (ii), and who has not signed a contract and has not reported to his Club’s pre-season training camp, may be placed on the roster exempt list of his Club under the following conditions:
(i) If the player has not reported at least the day before the Club’s second pre-season game, he may be placed on roster exempt until the day following the Club’s first regular season game.
(ii) If the player has not reported at least the day before the Club’s third pre-season game, he may be placed on roster exempt until the day following the Club’s second regular season game.
(iii) If the player has not reported at least the day before the Club’s fourth pre-season game, he may be placed on roster exempt until the day following the third regular season game scheduled after the date he
actually reports.
(iv) Any player who is placed on the roster exempt list of his Club, pursuant to Article XXXII, Section 4(c) shall be entitled to full compensation from his Club for any week in which his Club has a “bye” after the date he reports, but while he is still on the roster exempt list. Thus, any such player may not lose more than three weeks of salary as a result of being placed on the roster exempt list. This agreement shall not affect the number of regular season games for which the player can be placed on the roster exempt list, and thus for which the player may not play for his Club, in accordance with Subsections (i)-(iii) above. Nothing herein shall affect any right or obligation the player or Club otherwise may have concerning compensation to the player.
(v) No player may be placed on roster exempt under this Subsection unless the Club has provided written notice to the player and the NFLPA of its intent to place the player on roster exempt at least five days prior to the Club’s second preseason game. Once such written notice is provided, the Club must place the player on roster exempt in accordance with Subsections (i)-(iii) above....."

Since BB stated that he was not sure, why are you are so sure that Bauer is wrong?

I'm sure that Bauer is wrong because nothing in those rules compels Belichick to send anything to Mankins, and secondly Bauer is characterizing this as he expects the Patriots to do something nasty. From reading that, Belichick's right. The Patriots don't need to send a letter to Mankins.

Also, if you honestly believe Belichick is "unsure" about this, you haven't listened to his press conferences. This is just more Belichick dissembling, especially the part where he says, "He's not under contract."

Obviously Belichick has written him off. The agent can imagine all sorts of nastiness coming his way, but he should at least tell his client that, one, this letter if it were sent does not have malicious intent (as he portrayed it) and that two, the Patriots don't need to send the letter at all.

 

[Miguel]

I'm sure that Bauer is wrong because nothing in those rules compels Belichick to send anything to Mankins

That was not the point. The question asked was if today was the deadline for a team to send player a letter. Do you think that today is the deadline??

Your words - "Clearly, there's a disconnect here with the agent who doesn't seem to know the rules." How did Bauer showed that he did not know the rules?

 

[upstater1]

That was not the point. The question asked was if today was the deadline for a team to send player a letter. Do you think that today is the deadline??

Your words - "Clearly, there's a disconnect here with the agent who doesn't seem to know the rules." How did Bauer showed that he did not know the rules?

There were a lot of points made in my post. Not just one. But yeah, while you're right that today is the deadline, it's definitely not an inevitability that the letter would be sent. Belichick made that clear. Furthermore, the agent characterizes the Patriots sending the letter as "nasty."

Let me ask you: what conclusions do you draw from Belichick's comments. It seems they have totally written off Mankins.

 

[Deus Irae]

Smith undermined my post? Oh. Interesting.

My post was about how Belichick didn't have to send a letter to Mankins, and that Mankins' agent was adamant the letter was coming, and he portrayed the Patriots as nasty.

What did Smith say about my post?

Actually, your post was:

Wow, any of you defending Bauer need to read Reiss's latest at ESPN Boston. Apparently, this gasbag isn't giving his client proper representation. He has NO CLUE about the ins and outs of negotiations. How are the Patriots supposed to negotiate with a clueless agent? It's Mankins' own damn fault that he's represented by a moron. Read this:

Smith sending the letters clearly undermined that post. Clearly, at the least, that would be setting up a situation where there was a question about procedure which was impacting even the GMs.

Look, I get it. You wanted to flame the agent, and you jumped on something without following it up first. It's come back to bite you a bit, that's all. Let's move on.

 

[upstater1]

Actually, your post was:



Smith sending the letters clearly undermined that post. Clearly, at the least, that would be setting up a situation where there was a question about procedure which was impacting even the GMs.

Look, I get it. You wanted to flame the agent, and you jumped on something without following it up first. It's come back to bite you a bit, that's all. Let's move on.

as always you twist things to try to act superior so you can go to bed tonight patting yourself on the back

No wonder everyone hates you